Psychic Samurai applies for MDC...apparently...

[leonAzul]

Note that if the recording devices have microphones, then any method of producing audible sound will also suffice to cause sounds to be recorded.

More importantly, any recording device with an improperly loaded (ie, unterminated) input generates self-noise from the circuitry. No Faraday cage can shield from that.

 

[chran]

The Professor, thank you for the reply.

I've cast a few invocations in my time, and written a few, so I understand about the length. I was just trying to imagine a protocol where it might have to be repeated five times. Also, I couldn't be sure from what you stated before whether the content of the Invocation is important to your claim.

But, a glimmer of progress here: the invocation is key! So, we have established at least one phrase that should be part of your claim: "...by means of a spoken Invocation of approximately five minutes in duration..." The Invocation (not necessarily by itself, but as a necessary component among others) has a paranormal effect. That is not to say that the Invocation is itself paranormal, any more than a dowser's rods are paranormal objects.

Now, you believe that the effect of this Invocation is to summon the presence of paranormal entities. But as has been explained, the presence or absence of paranormal entities, or the question of whether even an entity that is acknowledged by all to be present is in fact paranormal, are untestable. So, we must focus on the tangible and unambiguous effects that you claim the presence of the invoked paranormal entities will have. Focusing on that, we can leave the paranormal entities out of the claim altogether. We can instead state that the effects observed are caused (indirectly, but still caused) by the Invocation process itself. So we can append "... I shall cause..." to the previous phrase of your claim, and go on to state what unexplainable effects will be observed.

Now this part, you've already spoken about, so I'll just go ahead and jot down, "...audible sounds... ...to be recorded by electronic recording devices..." as part of the effects.

That's not quite enough, though, because recording audible sounds by electronic recording devices is far from unexplainable; that's what those devices are for after all. If the claim were that live snakes would be recorded by electronic recording devices (not the sound or images of snakes, but the actual snakes), we could probably stop there, but as it is we need something more.

So, we add, referring to the recording devices, something like ..."that are isolated acoustically, optically, and electromagnetically from all possible signal sources...". That's certainly something that wouldn't normally happen.

Except, "audible sounds" by itself is a little vague. Audible at what volume? Even a new blank tape will produce audible sounds if you turn the playback volume high enough. So, just to make sure you're not attempting to exploit this trivially obvious phenomenon, let's add just a bit of quantitative specification. Referring to the recorded sounds, we add: "...exceeding the recorded volume, as measured by a sound meter in decibels, of a 35-decibel reference sound recorded on the same tape immediately before the start of the invocation...".

Now, if you string those phrases and clauses together in the right order, add some punctuation, and you'd have something very much like a claim. I'm not going to do that for you because this is your claim and I'd rather encourage you go through the same thought processes yourself from the beginning and fill in your own answers.

Note that this is the claim not the protocol, so whether and how this claim can be tested is not addressed. Don't try to do that. State the claim first.

Respectfully,
Myriad

Very good post!

I quoted it all because it's important, dammit!

 

[eirik]

I like your ideas but you are mistaken about the voices. They could be actual audible voices within the faraday cage itself and also electronic impulses causing anomolies that should not exist in that environment.

If I am mistaken, please explain the nature of my error and why it is relevantt to the test.

Is the signal/anomalies, audio or electronic, originating from the surrounding environment? This would in my opinion not constitute anything paranormal. It would also be an untestable claim, as it would be impossibble to exclude trickery and any natural phenomenons or even passing birds as jeff stated. I'm sure this is not what you meant.

The paranormal aspect of the test would be that the recording will NOT be of a scientificcaly explainable audio or electromagnetic source, right?

I have some years of electronic background, and audio and electromagnetism are the two known sources a recording device is designed to pick up under normal (as in not paranormal) conditions.

Then the sensible thing to do in a test is to exclude these two sources.

This can be done by putting the handycam/ recording device in a soundproof, light proof and EM-proof box approxamately 20 cm*20cm*20 cm. The size is for economical, but most important practical reasons. Excluding trickery and performing a controlled test should be easier with a small container.

The container would not exclude any audibles or other form of paranormal anomalies from within the box or in the surrounding environment.

But again, most important, what will the voices be saying? This must be stated in the protocol. What did they say in your prior testing? I suggest you go for that

This will probably be my last post, because i'm starting to feel a bit silly helping out here. Keep up the good work you guys

cheers

 

[Azrael 5]

David F Koenig perhaps you could answer my questions.How do yo uknow anything parnaormal will happen at this location ? Have you any evidence to show us?

How do yo know your invocation will work,have you tried it before? Show us some evidence?
Have you exhibited any paranormal abilities ever before? Show us some evidence.

ALso Dave F Koenig Id like to see-as would the forum I suspect-proof you have permission to carry this shenanigans out at the location.

Answers pelase.Oh you have about one day left.Hurry hurry!

 

[Mojo]

I will NOT touch the tapes!

More misdirection?

 

[EHocking]

More misdirection?

The Faraday cage itself is misdirection. It is supposedly there to block EM signals.

TP's protocol has a laptop placed inside the Faraday cage.

That is, a device that is capable of transmitting radio and infra-red signals. It would be a simple task to set a macro or similar on the laptop to transmit at a certain time on a certain day.

It's tantamount to building a shark-proof cage and putting the shark inside it.

So, besides the fact that TP's claim does not present a result that is self evident (his stipulation that any result needs to be scientifically analysed is proof of that), he has also failed to remove all possibility of trickery as he has been stating that his protocol does.

 

[Czarcasm]

This could happen, that could happen, anything could happen-none of this is acceptable at all.
Please tell us what will happen.
Will there be questions asked, with audible and understandable answers given? Yes or No
Will there be responses to questions asked on recording equipment? Yes or No
Will the recorded answers be audible? Yes or No
Will the recorded answers be visual? Yes or No
Will the recorded answers be audible AND visual? Yes or No

 

[Mojo]

The Faraday cage itself is misdirection.

The whole protocol is misdirection. The claim seems to be, simply, that TP can make a voice appear on a tape. The protocol submitted states that he will do this in a certain place at a certain time, but it appears from other comments that it could be done at other times, in other places. We also now have an invocation, TP's assurance that he has nothing up his sleeve...

To demonstrate his apparent claim, all he needs is a blank tape (and safeguards to prevent trickery, of course).

 

[eirik]

The Faraday cage itself is misdirection. It is supposedly there to block EM signals.

TP's protocol has a laptop placed inside the Faraday cage.

That is, a device that is capable of transmitting radio and infra-red signals. It would be a simple task to set a macro or similar on the laptop to transmit at a certain time on a certain day.

It's tantamount to building a shark-proof cage and putting the shark inside it.
(...), he has also failed to remove all possibility of trickery as he has been stating that his protocol does.

Yes, you make a good point.

The main issue in my opinion is to exclude the non-paranormal signal sources. This means sound and radiowave-signals.
Put a new taperecorder/camcorder in a sound, light and EMP-proof box small enough to be controllable. I would suggest 20cm*20cm*20cm.

Any other equipment, such as a monitor, camcorder and laptop should be placed OUTSIDE the small container to avoid electric interference. In this way signals from a computer or a camcorder and feedback from equipment will not affect the tape.

About the laptop: It would have to be a new factory standard laptop with only standard factory software. (still don't make any sense, but...)

eirik

 

[The Professor]

The whole protocol is misdirection. The claim seems to be, simply, that TP can make a voice appear on a tape. The protocol submitted states that he will do this in a certain place at a certain time, but it appears from other comments that it could be done at other times, in other places. We also now have an invocation, TP's assurance that he has nothing up his sleeve...

To demonstrate his apparent claim, all he needs is a blank tape (and safeguards to prevent trickery, of course).

I agree!!!!

 

[The Professor]

Jim, it's become patently obvious to even the sunniest optimist exactly how this will end. TP will not have a testable claim. When October 31st comes around and I am handing out treats to my neighborhood children, he will be on TV proclaiming to the world how James Randi ran away and refused to test him.

Why would I do that?
I still have my test in 2009 on the boards. You can't ignore that part!

 

[The Professor]

If by this instance you mean The Professor's protocol, then yes.

I didn't bring it up.

How about one of the aforementioned chips from a greeting card placed inside the TV set? Or maybe one of the TV sets is modified in an undetectable way so that it will tune in to a TV station for a second or two every three or four minutes, thus producing a sound that the recorders would pick up? As your are a magician, I'm sure you could think of other ways.

Done.

Now YOU get it Wagg!
The JREF group is super thinkers who can never be caught out!
James Randi loves to claim how he can expose anything. Obviously you guys would catch this right away.
That's what you critical thinkers do.... Catch us trailer trash no goods after you eagerly discriminated against us in your robust and friendly fashion

Please post the additional Magic Disclaimer that I must sign.
Thanks
Dave

 

[The Professor]

As do most of us... with a video on YouTube of Jim Callahan making accusations about how unfair the JREF testing process is, and how James Randi committed some horrible fraud in taking advantage of a well-intentioned Professor.

Yeah, maybe I can get a share of the million for my psychic prediction...

Do you know HOW and WHY this whole Test was started?

 

[NobbyNobbs]

I agree!!!!

If you agree, then we are definitely getting somewhere.

There is now no need for computers, tape recorders, TV monitors, or even a Faraday cage. All you need is a brand new tape selected randomly from a group of brand new tapes. Place it in a sealed container. Make a voice appear on the tape. Describe a way to determine if there is a voice on the tape that requires no sibjectivity whatsoever. Do this, and you're one million dollars richer.

Question for electronic experts: is there a way to tell if there is a recording on a tape without putting it in a tape player? Is there some way to remotely examine (remotely, a la X-rays, etc) a tape to see if something has been recorded on it? If so, then when the Professor is finished with his process, the tape doesn't even need to be unwrapped to be examined.

 

[The Professor]

So is your paranormal claim any of the following?

While sitting on the Devils Chair at midnight on Halloween, you can:

• Make 'something' appear on a blank video or audio tape.
• Make a voice appear on a blank audio or video tape
• Make a voice which speak a clear and intelligible sentence appear on a blank audio or video tape.
• Make a voice appear on a blank audio or video tape which is able to answer questions asked of it.
• Make a voice appear on a blank audio or video tape which is able to read the contents of a sealed envelope.
• One of the above, but the voice will clearly be in English
• One of the above, but the voice will be in another language

I believe this is more like what Jeff means when he is asking you for a claim. A short description of what you actually claim to do.

Some of the above may be testable while others clearly are not.

Cheers,

Hatchet

Jeff
Is this what you'd like?
It sounds reasonable to me!

 

[The Professor]

I think somewhere in all of this mess, the Professor has at various times agreed to bits and pieces that could be condensed into some sort of protocol:

1. A new in box digital recording device is opened w/ new bateries and tested. The dB of a speaking voice at close distance with the recorder set at medium voilume is noted.

2. It is set to record and placed in a faraday cage (a medium-sized box lined w/ whatever metal and insulated with sound-proof foam).

3. The Professor flips a coin. If it's heads, he invokes the invocation and then waits three minutes. If it's tails, he does nothing and/or tells the spirits to cool it and then waits three minutes. Repeat ten very boring times. Times from the start of the test are noted.

4. The cage is busted open and the recorder is played. A successful individual trial will be if the max dB at any point when there should have been talking is the same or more than the open test. A successful individual trial will also be if the max dB during a "quiet" period is at less than one-half the dB of the open talking test.

5. A successful test will be nine successful trials.

Is that acceptable to anybody?

I've never claimed to be able to tell Spirits to "Cool It".
But I think you ARE making progress!

 

[eirik]

The whole protocol is misdirection. The claim seems to be, simply, that TP can make a voice appear on a tape. The protocol submitted states that he will do this in a certain place at a certain time, but it appears from other comments that it could be done at other times, in other places. We also now have an invocation, TP's assurance that he has nothing up his sleeve...

To demonstrate his apparent claim, all he needs is a blank tape (and safeguards to prevent trickery, of course).

I agree!!!!

Uhh, so you can do this with a new tape i plastic wrapping lying on the ground. Without a camcorder or laptop or other pieces of e- equipment?

If it can be this simple, this is progress

eirik

 

[Cuddles]

The whole protocol is misdirection.

I agree!!!!

 

[jenski]

Why would I do that?
I still have my test in 2009 on the boards. You can't ignore that part!

I don't recall (so please refresh my poor memory) you saying you were moving your test to 10/31/2009. I do recall Jeff Wagg offering to do the test in 2009 instead of 2008 and you saying it was a good idea. Nowhere do I see you saying that WAS going to happen.

Are you saying here and now that you are going to forgo your 10/31/2008 test in lieu of a test on 10/31/2009?

In other words, are you cancelling your 2008 appearance and instead doing it next year?

 

[jenski]

I've never claimed to be able to tell Spirits to "Cool It".
But I think you ARE making progress!

It would be lovely if you would be ever so kind and tell us exactly what you WILL do.