Bigfoot - The Patterson-Gimlin Film

[desertgal]

For sure sonny Jim, for sure. I mean, just READ the damn posts here. Many of you fruitcakes spend more time reading, analyzing, picking apart and ridiculing posts and posters from various bigfoot forums than a lot of people who would call themselves a proponent of the subject. You understand what irony means? You lot are so obsessed that you even take to ridiculing virtual nobodies on other boards who will likely never ever even read your posts here.

Nope. I was just brought up to recognize that if I think something is a pile of crap then its a pile of crap. I won't spend almost all of my waking time espousing that I think it's a pile of crap. I won't spend almost all of my waking time obsessing and pondering over the pile of crap. I'd move on with my life and spend my time more productively and leave what I consider to be a pile of crap well enough alone. I wouldn't give the pile of crap another thought.

This place is a pile of crap. Hence, I spend very very little time here and only really popped in to say hello to Lu and Sweaty as I don't really come across them on other boards.

And what do you and your obsessive cronies do? Make bullcrap incorrect 'points', false assumptions, idiotic ramblings and dish out inane jibes at posters on other forums who don't even post here? Yeah, real big and clever that is. If you want to address people on other forums then go there and address them. Kitakaze first used this cowardly tactic some time ago. I don't know if he/she/it still does it after I told he/she/it was being a pillock. It wouldn't surprise me.

I was right the first time I came here. Waldorf and Statler would be right at home here. This is peanut gallery central.

The fact that none of you muppets have the guts or the brains to go to a specific bigfoot board (of which there are plenty) and state the same case there as you do here with any level of success, yet Lu and Sweaty Yeti can do the opposite with absolute ease, tells me that yup they run rings around you folks. Lu and Sweaty do a great job of batting you away and knocking you for six despite the heavy majority against them here.

Even Skep Greg turns into a little shrew when he posts on bigfoot boards and can't so much as argue successfully against a can of beans elsewhere.

Well your rabid snarling anti bigfoot crusade here isn't letting it die either, is it? Again, do you understand the word irony? Look at this bloody thread. Over 400 pages long!!!! You talk about bigfoot here EVERY DAMN DAY!!!!

If you don't call that 'obsessive', then what would you call it? You don't magically appear here every day by some freak accident do you? You lot come here by design and meaning every damn day. Why? Because you are OBSESSED.

The bottom line is this. The bigfoot dream won't ever die for those who are convinced there is such an animal. The sooner you accept and deal with that the better it will be for your sanity.

For those who think bigfoot is a pile of crap it will only die when you stop banging on that it's a pile of crap and try to forget about it. Got it? Very simple isn't it?

The regular crowd here are complete fruitcakes.

What is your problem? Why does the idea of bigfoot get under your skin so much that you have to talk about it almost every bloody day? Is cancer research funding being halted and handed over to bigfoot research instead? Are people killing in the name of bigfoot? Are archaic laws being upheld and adhered to in the name of bigfoot? Is bigfoot a paranormal scientific impossibility?

What............is...............the..............big...............deal????

Why do you care so much that many people are convinced there is such an animal out there? Who is it harming? Are you personally losing something? Did Roger Patterson shag your little sister and leave her pregnant? Did John Green steal your bike when you were a nipper at school? Did Rene Dahinden bash your momma over the head with half a stick of stale French bread when she was carrying you?

I mean..............come on. So much anger, bile and vitriol and TIME SPENT against a subject that is only a flesh and blood animal, should it exist. If it doesn't exist, so what?

If you think there is no such thing as bigfoot then fine. Ignore it. Forget about it. Consign it to the 'monkey' bin. Don't keep obsessing over the damn subject day after day after day and year after year after year.

It's sad, pathetic and more than just a little bit weird.

At least the proponents have a logical and sound reason for spending time pondering this subject. To 'obsess' over something you are sure exists is reasonable. To 'obsess' over something harmless and which you are sure doesn't exist is seriously whacked in the head.

End of.

G'morning.

Pst) Hello again Lu and Sweaty. Keep up the good work you are doing.

Wow. Speaking of anger, bile, and vitriol...

 

[LAL]

Nope. But I think it should have its own YouTube video:

Where are the Bones - a video analysis.


In my research I found this PDF which highlights 20 years of Black Bear study in PA.

Thanks for posting that. You saved me the trouble of typing it out from the book. Where did you get the clip of Grover?

"In medicine, death by natural causes is a loosely-defined term used by coroners describing death when the cause of death was a naturally occurring disease process, or is not apparent given medical history or circumstances. Thus, deaths caused by active human intervention (as opposed to the failure of medical intervention to prevent death) are excluded from this definition, and are described as unnatural deaths." -Wikipedia

I would not consider death by drowning "natural causes".

Grover was pointing out how unlikely it is to find bones of a sasquatch when we don't find bones of naturally dying bears when bears may be 100 times more numerous.

Maybe with a funded study some would turn up.

Start looking here:

 

[doctoratlantis]

Skeptical Videos

Outstanding! I think it's a great idea for skeptics to post YouTube videos that rebut various pieces of nonsense. Your video was very well put together, and really shows what a crank Krantz was. It's amazing how widely held in the Bigfoot subculture his ludicrous position still is.

BTW, I've put up a two skeptical YouTube videos myself, though they are both basically the same:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6uLyJHKBsE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5ar2z4-_8k

If you google the term "dermal ridges" with or without quotation marks, my website is the first hit.

Yeah - I sent you an off-line message through YouTube. I think it can be a great vehicle for sharing information and it is time that some people (like Captain Disillusion") use it to spread logic and reason since there is a grossly disproportionate amount of nonsense perpetuated out there.

But I'm slowly (in my so-called "free time") working on what I call "skeptisode guides" to paranormal TV shows on my website www.doctoratlantis.com/skeptisode.htm. If I can get all the parts together my next Bigfoot video will address Patty's walk.

 

[Correa Neto]

If you mean RayG, he was talking about the book. He doesn't have the DVD. Kitakaze does - it puts him to sleep.

If you haven't seen it, just say so.

Oh, LAL, I already answered. Once again, since it seems you haven't noticed it - I saw it. Too bad you fail to acknoweledge the real nature and the many shortcomings of the material presented there - wild speculations mostly based on anecdotes.

Bigfootery has been repacking and reselling the same decades-old pieces of unreliable evidence, sometimes adding some new (usually baseless) speculations. LMS (the book and the video) is an example of this; may eventually be entertaining, but that's all- entertainement purposes only. Since wild speculations and anecdotes can not substitute absence of reliable evidence and poor methodology, these works have little chances to convince skeptics.

If the material were half as good as footers claim, it would have made to Nature. But we all know that a paper based on evidence suspected of being hoaxed will not make it.

Come to think of it, what happened at bigfootery lastly? Nothing but hoaxes coupled with the odd anecdote. The bigfoot body recently found surely put an end to the whole "silly suit business"... The stunning Tomagami bigfoot imagery surely are high-quality evidence...

 

[EHocking]

I've already mentioned there could be bodies under the ash if they weren't blown to bits. That stuff's hundreds of feet thick.

No. It isn't.

The ash deposit was merely inches thick and the lateral blast deposits were only 3ft thick at the volcano.

The resulting landslide due to the collapse of the side of the volcano was an average of 150ft thick but was confined to the valley of the Toutle River.

All rather moot anyway as the majority of reported BF sightings in Washington are west and north of Mt. St.Helens, according to the map of BF sightings for Washington at BFRO , whereas the area most affected by the eruption was to the northeast and east. So, not that many BF in the area to be buried, by the looks of things.

Again, it's always handy to check facts before speculating.

 

[LAL]

Why? Was Mt St.Helens considered a hotbed of Wolverine and Wolf activity?? From what I understand this area is pretty much Sasquatchville USA yet none were found among the estimated 7,000 animals dead..Imagine that.

Do you actually think 7000 dead animals were found? It was an estimate.

Wolves and wolverines were thought to be extinct in the area but later were found to not be extinct in the area. They may just have been there all along. (Of course I heard anecdotes about them still being around so I wasn't overly surprised when the officials caught up with local lore.)

Nice story Lu...relevance??

Things got blown to bits. If something resembling a bit of bacon turned up in the ash and wasn't readily identifiable do you think someone would collect it as possible sasquatch or just assume it was another piece of baked deer?

The important part is that they didn't "estimate" a single solitary dead Bigfeetsus....not even one.

Probably for fear of being laughed at.

A cyber friend sent me information on how estimates are made (she took a course in it) when I was wondering how they got a remnant of 3-6 mountain lions in Great Smokies National Park. I'll post it later when I find it if you're interested.

 

[LAL]

Oh, LAL, I already answered. Once again, since it seems you haven't noticed it - I saw it. Too bad you fail to acknoweledge the real nature and the many shortcomings of the material presented there - wild speculations mostly based on anecdotes.

Please point me to the post where you already answered. I can't find it.

Call analysis, films and casts don't seem to be anecdotes to me. Just how was any of that based on anecdotes? And how were the analyses "wild speculation"?

Do you remember Dr. Andrew Nelson's conclusions on the PGF?

 

[LAL]

Wow. Speaking of anger, bile, and vitriol...

Comes from months of being called affectionate names like "Pattycakes", most likely, but Lyndon isn't afraid to tell it like it is. I thought it was a pretty fair summation, actually.

He's done his homework on the PGF and I've learned from his posts.

 

[Correa Neto]

They also request garlic frequently, recognize and know what cameras are and what they do, convert barns into outhouses, visit BFRO expeditions frequently, like to be brushed, use underground tunnels and destroy log trucks on impact without getting a scratch

Wow, I am always amazed by the ammount of information that can be gathered from anecdotes...

 

[desertgal]

I thought it was a pretty fair summation, actually.

Well, of course. Why wouldn't you?

 

[Correa Neto]

Please point me to the post where you already answered. I can't find it.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4052281&postcount=16183

Call analysis, films and casts don't seem to be anecdotes to me. Just how was any of that based on anecdotes? And how were the analyses "wild speculation"?

The calls- Not confirmed as being from bigfeet, other options not
The film- Suspected of being a hoax, too blurry
The casts- Suspected of being hoaxes and misidentifications

Lots of things regarding PGF are anecdotal- all we have are actually anecdotes. Patterson and Gimlim claim the film is from a female bigfoot; they and other people claim that the footprints were made by the film subject; Hieronimus claims to be the guy in the suit and Morris claims he was involved on making it. None of the above individuals managed to back the claims propperly. Anecdote.

Do you remember Dr. Andrew Nelson's conclusions on the PGF?

The "hoaxers would not replicate hernia" stuff?
Not sure if it was from the book or video.
Would you be surprised to know I was not impressed?
Would you be surprised to know that this is because I doubt PGF has enough definition to support such level of detail analysis (hernias, moving toes/fingers, facial expressions, braids, poops, bullet wounds, etc. are a no-go)?

 

[LTC8K6]

Well, as the #1 fruitcake in this thread, thanks sharky, I'd just like to congratulate the troops. Well done. Just a reminder that the burden is not on us and I am proud of the fact that we take the burden on anyway.

 

[doctoratlantis]

Thanks for posting that. You saved me the trouble of typing it out from the book. Where did you get the clip of Grover?

"In medicine, death by natural causes is a loosely-defined term used by coroners describing death when the cause of death was a naturally occurring disease process, or is not apparent given medical history or circumstances. Thus, deaths caused by active human intervention (as opposed to the failure of medical intervention to prevent death) are excluded from this definition, and are described as unnatural deaths." -Wikipedia

I would not consider death by drowning "natural causes".

Grover was pointing out how unlikely it is to find bones of a sasquatch when we don't find bones of naturally dying bears when bears may be 100 times more numerous.

1) I got the clip from A&E's "Ancient Mysteries: Bigfoot".

2) Longer answer required:

Grover was saying we don't find bears of "naturally dying bears" to distinguish the rarity of finding a corpse of a bear that died from non-human intervention (rare) from those that die at the hand of man through hunting or car-accidents (extremely common).

It's a form of special pleading. He's saying if you take this subset of the population of this known living creature and only look for the those we find which were "stumbled upon" (my words) then you won't find any.

Only you do.

Now you want to exclude those that drowned? Be serious. At best he's making a strained comparison. We know there are bears. We see bears. We find their bodies. We hunt them. We photograph them.

There is a lot more evidence for bears than just the bodies, mind. Even if you didn't see bears their population is known from hair traps which carry their DNA, and scat samples which also carry DNA. But we do see bears.

So if Bigfoot are so rare that we'll never find bones, then how come people keep seeing them? And if they're so common that people see them frequently, then how come they're never hit by cars or shot - in other words why do we have no bodies?

People see animal bodies all the time. I live in North Georgia (which I would not characterize as Bigfoot Country). I see dead deer, raccoons, opossum, squirrels, birds, cats, dogs, and turtles on the road with such frequency and regularity that I barely take notice unless the kill is either spectacularly gruesome or unusually stinky.

The bones should be there if the creature is there. A lack of bones isn't proof that there is no Bigfoot - but a surfeit of bones would certainly stick in the craw of skeptics who wanted to deny the creature's existence. As a skeptic myself, I still admit that Bigfoot is my favorite cryptid. Much to the dismay of my wife who has to endure me TIVOing every show to do with "Big & Hairy."

I'm waiting for the bones, the body, or the live specimen. Costumes in a freezer just aren't to my taste, despite their being such a local delicacy.

 

[Correa Neto]

Comes from months of being called affectionate names like "Pattycakes", most likely, but Lyndon isn't afraid to tell it like it is. I thought it was a pretty fair summation, actually.

He's done his homework on the PGF and I've learned from his posts.

Another interesting thing to do would be to stop playing the victim role, since many a footer quite often abuse the freedom of speech that exists here.

Skeptics at this (and other boards) are frequently offended by footers. After countless pages of verbal abuse from certain posters, no wonder sometimes a skeptic will send one or two flaming torpedoes aimed towards a footer.

 

[Mad Hom]

For sure sonny Jim, for sure. I mean, just READ the damn posts here. Many of you fruitcakes spend more time reading, analyzing, picking apart and ridiculing posts and posters from various bigfoot forums than a lot of people who would call themselves a proponent of the subject. You understand what irony means? You lot are so obsessed that you even take to ridiculing virtual nobodies on other boards who will likely never ever even read your posts here.

Nope. I was just brought up to recognize that if I think something is a pile of crap then its a pile of crap. I won't spend almost all of my waking time espousing that I think it's a pile of crap. I won't spend almost all of my waking time obsessing and pondering over the pile of crap. I'd move on with my life and spend my time more productively and leave what I consider to be a pile of crap well enough alone. I wouldn't give the pile of crap another thought.

This place is a pile of crap. Hence, I spend very very little time here and only really popped in to say hello to Lu and Sweaty as I don't really come across them on other boards.

And what do you and your obsessive cronies do? Make bullcrap incorrect 'points', false assumptions, idiotic ramblings and dish out inane jibes at posters on other forums who don't even post here? Yeah, real big and clever that is. If you want to address people on other forums then go there and address them. Kitakaze first used this cowardly tactic some time ago. I don't know if he/she/it still does it after I told he/she/it was being a pillock. It wouldn't surprise me.

I was right the first time I came here. Waldorf and Statler would be right at home here. This is peanut gallery central.

The fact that none of you muppets have the guts or the brains to go to a specific bigfoot board (of which there are plenty) and state the same case there as you do here with any level of success, yet Lu and Sweaty Yeti can do the opposite with absolute ease, tells me that yup they run rings around you folks. Lu and Sweaty do a great job of batting you away and knocking you for six despite the heavy majority against them here.

Even Skep Greg turns into a little shrew when he posts on bigfoot boards and can't so much as argue successfully against a can of beans elsewhere.

Well your rabid snarling anti bigfoot crusade here isn't letting it die either, is it? Again, do you understand the word irony? Look at this bloody thread. Over 400 pages long!!!! You talk about bigfoot here EVERY DAMN DAY!!!!

If you don't call that 'obsessive', then what would you call it? You don't magically appear here every day by some freak accident do you? You lot come here by design and meaning every damn day. Why? Because you are OBSESSED.

The bottom line is this. The bigfoot dream won't ever die for those who are convinced there is such an animal. The sooner you accept and deal with that the better it will be for your sanity.

For those who think bigfoot is a pile of crap it will only die when you stop banging on that it's a pile of crap and try to forget about it. Got it? Very simple isn't it?

The regular crowd here are complete fruitcakes.

What is your problem? Why does the idea of bigfoot get under your skin so much that you have to talk about it almost every bloody day? Is cancer research funding being halted and handed over to bigfoot research instead? Are people killing in the name of bigfoot? Are archaic laws being upheld and adhered to in the name of bigfoot? Is bigfoot a paranormal scientific impossibility?

What............is...............the..............big...............deal????

Why do you care so much that many people are convinced there is such an animal out there? Who is it harming? Are you personally losing something? Did Roger Patterson shag your little sister and leave her pregnant? Did John Green steal your bike when you were a nipper at school? Did Rene Dahinden bash your momma over the head with half a stick of stale French bread when she was carrying you?

I mean..............come on. So much anger, bile and vitriol and TIME SPENT against a subject that is only a flesh and blood animal, should it exist. If it doesn't exist, so what?

If you think there is no such thing as bigfoot then fine. Ignore it. Forget about it. Consign it to the 'monkey' bin. Don't keep obsessing over the damn subject day after day after day and year after year after year.

It's sad, pathetic and more than just a little bit weird.

At least the proponents have a logical and sound reason for spending time pondering this subject. To 'obsess' over something you are sure exists is reasonable. To 'obsess' over something harmless and which you are sure doesn't exist is seriously whacked in the head.

End of.

G'morning.

Pst) Hello again Lu and Sweaty. Keep up the good work you are doing.

Wow.... just ....wow.... methinks Carch that you might just want to look into some anger management classes,but seeings how you went to all the trouble of typing out your little cry baby tirade I'll play along.

Have you ever for one second thought that maybe just maybe some of us are intrigued by the thought processes involved with a person who BLEEVS that a heretofore undiscovered 8 foot tall Hairy Biped roams throughout every stretch of tall trees across the whole of the US in great enough numbers to sustain a breeding population and has done so for at least 400 years despite the utter dirth of any meanigful evidence.

Furthermore that enaging these people and their lack of any real criitical thinking skills might just be considered interesting to some of us??

Have you ever allowed that thought to squeeze it's way into your skull Carchy ol bean??

This is what's called a hobby Carch...and interesting activity that we like to spend a bit of our day doing....I "waste" as you like to put it roughly an hour a day doing this...hardly an obsession.

There's also a wee bit of fighting the good fight involved....can't allow TRU BLEEVER to gain any ground don't ya know...lest the entire world be overrun with Ghost researchers and Bigfeetsus Field Reps.

 

[Mad Hom]

[qimg]http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b352/Hollerbach/notapproved.jpg[/qimg]

Yessssss...Kool Aid get's 500 pts for the Manos,The Hands of Fate reference

 

[Mad Hom]

Do you actually think 7000 dead animals were found? It was an estimate.

Lu do you actually think that they didn't find dead animals in any numbers at all to base this estimate on?? Do you think they saw one dead example of each species and leapt to an arbitrary number of 7,000 individuals??

What about wolves?? What about wolverines? They may have been there all along??

Ahh but they may not have either Lu...ever allow that to enter your thinking??

On the other hand Bigfeetsus were said to have been in the area...hell it was a relative Hot Zone of Hairy Bipedal shenanigans...yet not a single Sasquatch body among the known dead.

Oh yeah...I forgot...they were buried under a mile of ash...yeah.....that's the ticket.

 

[GT/CS]

What happened to PGF?

Hey, Sweaty, #27.

 

[Correa Neto]

Diferent pattyfaces... Lots of artistic freedom IMHO.

 

[Mad Hom]

What happened to PGF?

Hey, Sweaty, #27.

The PGF has pretty much been slapped silly on this thread for 3 years.

The timeline,the suit,the detail,the filmstock,the frame speed,the editing, Rodge's past,Bob H's past,shadow angle ...pretty much all of it.

It all ends up devolving though into Lu incessantly reciting long passages of anecdotal evidence or Sweetsy yammering on and on about "replicate the suit...aaaaaaaahh"

Given this knowledge...to me this has become the Bigfeetsus thread not just the PGF thread...and all Bigfeetsus lore is open to debate.

But anyone can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.