Bigfoot - The Patterson-Gimlin Film

[LAL]

I don't understand the functionality of that sentiment or opinion. The film is widely regarded as a hoax because they weren't smart or capable enough to pull it off.

There was a moderator intervention while I was writing my reply and that was all I could think of for a substitute after I edited all that out. I don't think having respect for people who have actually done work in the field is "hero worship" or making "gods" out of them. Byrne examined the site and used a pole to gauge the figure's height. This is the figure Glickman used and it's close to foot length x 7 (the range would be 6 -7 foot lengths for the height). Dr. Krantz asked Roger about anatomical details he would have had to know and got a blank look.

Many people think it looks like a costume, and the surrounding testimony is highly suspect. That should count as - "they didn't pull it off".

And I (and many people who've analyzed the film) think it doesn't look like a costume and the testimony holds up, especially when compared to Bob Heironimus' ever-changing story. There was nothing to "pull off".

I prefer my "factoids" to groundless speculation, thanks.

 

[LONGTABBER PE]

According to "eyewitness reports", bigfeet are known to lie down in roads, climb trees, throw pigs, eviscerate deer, rock cars, shake VW beetles, steal beans from cans using screwdrivers (also stolen) at someone's backyard, lifts infants and carry them at their backs, swim, smell worse than skunks, abduct humans, rape humans, emit infrasound, bash trees, collect and eat mussels, yell, knock on woods, twist trees, have glowing eyes, are calm, are aggressive, are gentle, walk on all fours, throw rocks and pine cones, kill humans, howl, twist trees, scream, climb on trees when juveniles, use tools and adornments, hide in corn fields, rattle doorknobs, maul dogs, eat worms, shakes tents, make noises louder than jet engines, bury their dead, speak, eat rodents and salmon, are curious, live in clans or alone across most North America, are nocturnal, are mostly nocturnal, are crepuscular, whistle, make noises imitating other animals, express emotions with facial displays, body posture and piloerection, stalks people, make braids in horses, treat snake bites, wrestles, wears clothes, back rides horses, carries hunters, chases bicycles, crosses roads, its cry can vibrate pants, chest cavity and push you, it wears skins, are shy, overthrows jeeps, is a breast-stroke swimmer, bulletproof, "fence passer througher", “fence passer abover”, salt-trading, has an under-developed flight-response mechanism, has an exceptional flight-response time, throws horses, do sideways shufflings, is gluten sensitive, eats pig food, are vegetarians, are omnivores, are carnivores, throw balls back and can be black, dark-brown, brown, reddish-brow, tan, red, white or gray.

Oh, they may also be
Paranormal, shape-shifters, telepathic, invisible, interdimensional, UFO travelers…

They also request garlic frequently, recognize and know what cameras are and what they do, convert barns into outhouses, visit BFRO expeditions frequently, like to be brushed, use underground tunnels and destroy log trucks on impact without getting a scratch

 

[LAL]

Anyone know any good links where a guy could find pics of all the other dead critters they found on or near Mt St Helens after the eruption...so I can forward them to Lu of course.

No need.

I knew people who got off the mountain. One was photographing on the south side when the north side blew - same man who discovered the double trackway in 1969 I've mentioned quite a few times already. The foreman of a planting crew refused to take them to the north side as planned and they were on the south side that day. They had to dodge falling trees and run over collapsing bridges but they made it out.

Some wildlife survived, some didn't.

My land was south of the mountain - same county. There was a dusting of ash still visible on some Devil's Club from the first eruption (I was living in California at the time) when I went up but otherwise it was untouched. I saw the mountain from the air en route to Seattle. My mom and I drove down and saw the Toutle River - what was left of it. Later I made a trek to the mountain before it was a National Monument. A friend of mine with the Forest Service flew helicopter to try to find salvageable timber under the ash. It was still smoldering months later - I don't think any of it could be recovered. The destruction in the blast area was total, but there were many areas unaffected.

The Skookum Cast was taken after the eruption. The area was chosen because of a recent close up sighting by a retired wildlife officer. Both Skookum Meadow and Mt. St. Helens are in Skamania County, Washington, in case anybody doesn't know that.

And just to try to tie this back to the topic, it's all north of Bluff Creek.

 

[LAL]

They also request garlic frequently, recognize and know what cameras are and what they do, convert barns into outhouses, visit BFRO expeditions frequently, like to be brushed, use underground tunnels and destroy log trucks on impact without getting a scratch

Does anybody believe that stuff?

 

[tyr_13]

Does anybody believe that stuff?

Sadly, yeah, some people do.

 

[LAL]

Do you think you could replicate this "obvious fake-foot" movement?...

[qimg]http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w28/SweatyYeti/Pattys%20Toes/PattyToesGif5Slow.gif[/qimg]

Should be easy - just hire a Neandertaler.

"THE HOMINOID FOOT - The main features standing out in both the American and Soviet (Russian) material: 1. Tracks show flat feet (without an arch). 2. The width of the foot in proportion to the length is much greater than in man's foot. 3. The hominoid foot is generally much bigger than man's.

Besides, as has been often noted by late Pyotr Smolin, chairman of the Hominoid Problem Seminar at the Darwin Museum in Moscow, the hominoid foot is distinguished by a great mobility of its toes which can bend very much or fully extend or spread very widely.

One more peculiarity: the so-called double ball at the back of the big toe as evidenced in many North American tracks (Green, 1968; Krantz, 1972). We find Grover Krantz's explanation of this feature very interesting, and we especially value at this stage the conclusion drawn by him concerning the size of the creature's calcaneus (heel bone). In some frames the creature's foot seems to have an unnaturally protruding heel. To a casual observer this may look like a sticking out edge of an artificial sole, but to those who know better this is an omen of the creature's reality.

As for the double ball itself we would like to make here the following remark. The double ball is made up not only of two bulges of tissue but also of a furrow between them, which is like a kind of fold on the sole. Hence the question can also be put this way. Why is a fold formed at this spot on the hominoid sole?

The answer, probably, can be like this: because the hominoid foot is not so rigid as man's foot, it still retains a certain measure of mobility inherited from the hand-like foot of the ape, and therefore has a furrow somewhat analogous to lines on man's palm. "

http://www.cryptozoology.com/articles/dmitri.php

 

[LAL]

BTW, who posted the image of the bear remains after a flood?

LTC8K6.

Cable Canyon:

Same one?

Why aren't there dead bodies of all the other fauna in the same area?

Animals are presumed extinct in various parts of the country (wolverines, wolves, mountain lions) and then are rediscovered, alive and well. Why weren't bodies found in the intervening years? Surely there were some.

No bodies found and brought in for identification yet doesn't mean there are no bodies to be found.

If a dead sasquatch is brought in and it's a dead ringer for Patty, can we stop this silly suit business?

 

[RayG]

So all the possible Bigfeets victims of the Mt St Helens eruption are buried under hundreds of feet of ash Lu? Really? All of them??

Doubtful when you consider that bodies of 36 of the 57 people that were known to have perished were recovered.

Anyone know any good links where a guy could find pics of all the other dead critters they found on or near Mt St Helens after the eruption...so I can forward them to Lu of course.

Don't have any pics to share, but found this tidbit:

The Washington State Department of Game estimated nearly 7,000 big game animals (deer, elk, and bear) perished as well as all birds and most small mammals. Many burrowing rodents, frogs, salamanders, and crawfish, managed to survive because they were below ground level or water surface when the disaster struck.

Seven thousand big game animals, but no bigfoot.

Also found this:

In only three minutes the blast flattened 230 square miles of old growth forest in a fan shape north of the mountain.

I knew people who got off the mountain.

Did you happen to know any of the 57 who didn't?

Some wildlife survived, some didn't.

But even though nearly seven thousand (7,000) big game animals didn't make it out in time, all the bigfoot did? What are the possible explanations?

1. no bigfooties found because all the bigfooties sensed the upcoming eruption and left the day before.
2. no bigfooties found because bigfooties can run faster than volcanic eruptions.
3. no bigfooties found because bigfooties had tired of hanging around the place months or even years earlier and moved on to greener pastures well before the eruption.
4. no bigfooties found because they were entombed in the ash, mud, lava, etc.
5. no bigfooties found because nobody looked in the right place.
6. no bigfooties found because there never were any bigfooties, ever.

Bueller, Bueller?

RayG

 

[bruto]

If a dead sasquatch is brought in and it's a dead ringer for Patty, can we stop this silly suit business?

Sure.

I like the look of the Kabobs.

You just bring in the squatch.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

I've had the pleasure of meeting Peter Byrne in person. He knew both men (Patterson and Gimlin) personally and frankly didn't think they were smart enough to pull off a hoax like that.

No s...


The last time I checked, they didn't pull it off ...

That said, your appeal to authority is worthless here .. One great Bigfoot hunter questioning the intelligence of another ?

Where's that exploding irony meter when you need it?

 

[LAL]

Doubtful when you consider that bodies of 36 of the 57 people that were known to have perished were recovered.

But 21 weren't.

Don't have any pics to share, but found this tidbit:

Seven thousand big game animals, but no bigfoot.

Estimated 7000. (OMG, I'm beginning to sound like a skeptic.)

Any wolverines? Wolves?

Also found this:
Did you happen to know any of the 57 who didn't?

No. Have you read about the dog that looked okay but was shattered under the skin? They found bits of apparent bacon from the camper's breakfast. Turned out it was the camper.

Good article. An estimated 1,500 Roosevelt elk, eh?

But even though nearly seven thousand (7,000) big game animals didn't make it out in time, all the bigfoot did? What are the possible explanations?

Who said they did?

Did they dig up all those animals and count them, or is that what we call an educated guess?

There were some in the area that were blown to unrecognizable bits. There were none in the blast area because they move around a lot anyway. There were some in the area that may be under the ash and may be found someday if anyone can figure out where to dig.

Lava? Better read up on it. The lava dome was later and not something that flowed gently downhill covering 7000 game animals as it went.

 

[LAL]

No s...


The last time I checked, they didn't pull it off ...

That said, your appeal to authority is worthless here .. One great Bigfoot hunter questioning the intelligence of another ?

Where's that exploding irony meter when you need it?

No appeal to authority there - just another one of those dang anecdotes. Bryne, of course, actually investigated unlike people who merely offer opinions.

Moderator intervention didn't make a whole lot of difference, did it? I can barely detect a change in tone.

 

[doctoratlantis]

Bones Debate - Video & Another Link

Does anyone think the "no dead bears" topic should have its own thread? I would glady start that but I would ask for mod assistance in splitting the topic. Also I would ask that those of us here who contributed to previous rounds of the topic in the past try to dig up any major contributions. BTW, who posted the image of the bear remains after a flood?

Nope. But I think it should have its own YouTube video:

Where are the Bones - a video analysis.


In my research I found this PDF which highlights 20 years of Black Bear study in PA.

 

[Crowlogic]

Dead bears? I was once accused of beng a know nothing because I concluded that there were no Bigfoot in NY State in 1980. I mean what could I know tramping through the forest for weeks at a time surveying environmental issues. Well I sure didn't find any Bigfoot, yup he's still not here folks but I did find dead birds, dead deer, dead dog, dead cat, dead bear, dead fox and lots of random bones. Nature's cleanup patrol is pretty good but not instant and not perfect.

 

[tube]

Nope. But I think it should have its own YouTube video:

Where are the Bones - a video analysis.


In my research I found this PDF which highlights 20 years of Black Bear study in PA.

Outstanding! I think it's a great idea for skeptics to post YouTube videos that rebut various pieces of nonsense. Your video was very well put together, and really shows what a crank Krantz was. It's amazing how widely held in the Bigfoot subculture his ludicrous position still is.

BTW, I've put up a two skeptical YouTube videos myself, though they are both basically the same:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6uLyJHKBsE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5ar2z4-_8k

If you google the term "dermal ridges" with or without quotation marks, my website is the first hit.

 

[Mad Hom]

Estimated 7000. (OMG, I'm beginning to sound like a skeptic.)

Any wolverines? Wolves?

Why? Was Mt St.Helens considered a hotbed of Wolverine and Wolf activity?? From what I understand this area is pretty much Sasquatchville USA yet none were found among the estimated 7,000 animals dead..Imagine that.

No. Have you read about the dog that looked okay but was shattered under the skin? They found bits of apparent bacon from the camper's breakfast. Turned out it was the camper.

Nice story Lu...relevance??

Who said they did?

Did they dig up all those animals and count them, or is that what we call an educated guess?

The important part is that they didn't "estimate" a single solitary dead Bigfeetsus....not even one.

 

[Mad Hom]

But even though nearly seven thousand (7,000) big game animals didn't make it out in time, all the bigfoot did? What are the possible explanations?

1. no bigfooties found because all the bigfooties sensed the upcoming eruption and left the day before.
2. no bigfooties found because bigfooties can run faster than volcanic eruptions.
3. no bigfooties found because bigfooties had tired of hanging around the place months or even years earlier and moved on to greener pastures well before the eruption.
4. no bigfooties found because they were entombed in the ash, mud, lava, etc.
5. no bigfooties found because nobody looked in the right place.
6. no bigfooties found because there never were any bigfooties, ever.

Bueller, Bueller?

RayG

What is.....No.6....Alex

 

[carcharodon]

Ironic that your cheering section, Sweaty and Carchy, have managed to get themselves banned on the sites that champion your cause...

Really? That's news to me Greg. Banned you say?

I simply decided to STOP POSTING at BFF due to some overzealous and inconsistent moderators who lock or temporary close any thread that's ever interesting and pick and chose who is acting against the rules and who isn't.

Take the recent case of Verne Langdon. How the hell he can get away with ridiculing posters with references to porn and even get a pat on the back and 'what a humorous stylish funny guy' comments from a certain inconsistent mod while the same certain mod barked out a warning to another poster who had done absolutely nothing by comparison........is unbelievable!!! And that is the type of reason why I left.

So get your facts straight Greg. Wouldn't want to be called a liar now would you? Besides, BFF ain't what it used to be. Well past it's prime.

 

[carcharodon]

Yo Lyndon.....how goes it?!

Great post....good observations, as usual.


Check out this quote from Mad Hom:



Mad Hom doesn't like me requesting that somebody actually back-up their claims, and replicate the movements we see going on with Patty's so-called "suit".......but, like it or not, he's gonna be hearing a LOT more of it!


Logically.....if Patty's hide is an obvious suit, then it should be easy to replicate at least some part of it, if not the entire thing.






Bingo.


I hope you stay tuned, Lyndon....I have some more good stuff on the way!

Hey Sweaty,

3 years ago the infamous conman and picture manipulator known as Dfoot assured us he would easily be able to recreate the Patterson suit (seeing as it was 'nothing special') and that he is going to prove to us how it was done.

Wonder whatever happened to him? 3 years later and still no suit to show us all how easy it would be.

Oh how we laugh. Tee hee.

 

[captain koolaid]

...This place is a pile of crap.