My Muslim Faith?

[FaisonMars]

Would you afford the same courtesy to a Christian, if you felt he was a pretty smart guy? If so, then great. I'm with ya. I don't care alot because I know that many politicians just pay lip service to religion topics to make certain types happy. I'm not too concerend about one trying to enforce his views onto us. Despite hysteria of it happening.

Yes, I would, and I agree, although politicians certainly have tried to use their religious ideas to make policy (anti-gay and anti-abortion efforts are examples). So it's not just that they have to be smart, they also have to understand what the 1st amendment means.

I don't care if a candidate claims his religion is "Jedi" as long as he doesn't start to foist his beliefs on the rest of the country, or think he can influence world leaders through his "mind trick."

"These are not the WMD's you are looking for. Move along."

(Romney got laughed at because of his "magic underwear," but is that any sillier than a magic cracker?)

 

[MaGZ]

Surely NO ONE on this forum would so overtly BIGGOTED to claim that one can't be a devout Muslim and a good American citizen, or to claim that all Muslims are terrorists. Sure everyone here can recognize that evil men and women of all faiths and no faith can be trotted out, but that does not mean that ALL members of that faith are evil.

So for purposes of this forum, whether or not Obama is a Muslim should be a non-issue.

As long as a candidate does not intend to push his or her personal beliefs on the rest of us in the form of policy (as McCain/Palin want to do in overturning abortion rights or cutting funding for stem cell research), it's not relevant.

There can be no religious test for office in this country.

Barack Obama being a secret Muslim is an important question. It's same as asking if John Kerry, Mike Dukasas, or George Allen are secret Jews.

 

[MaGZ]

Unequivocally, he did not attend a Muslim school. This is a falsehood that was echoed so constantly that it became fact in the minds of many.

He attended two schools in Indonesia, one was Muslim and the other was Catholic. Obama was registered in both schools which listed his religion as Islam.

 

[varwoche]

He attended two schools in Indonesia, one was Muslim

False. It was a secular, public school.

Interviews by The Associated Press at the elementary school in Jakarta found that it is a public and secular institution that has been open to students of all faiths since before the White House contender attended in the late 1960s.
...
"The allegations are completely baseless," said Akmad Solichin, the vice principal at SDN Menteng 1, who added, "Yes, most of our students are Muslim, but there are Christians as well. Everyone's welcome here ... it's a public school."

link

 

[Undesired Walrus]

If the US President was Muslim, their ability to be a good leader would depend on how much of their holy book they ignore. The same goes for contemporary Christian leaders, who now largely ignore about 80% of their holy book.

 

[Cleon]

Odd bit of information. In Arabic, ALL schools are called "madrassa."

Well, yes, that's what the word means. But the Arabic word just sounds so sinister.

 

[The Painter]

People being upset about what some radical Muslim extremists did would make a Muslim a bad choice for President? Is that the point you are trying to get across?

Stop it. You're not that obtuse.

In the land of chocolate rivers and lollipop trees and rainbow sky, being a Muslim would make not difference at all. Now lets look at the real world. A Muslim presidential candidate would not have a snowballs chance in hell of being elected, and you know it. BTW since it was just a small group of "Muslim extremists" where is is the moral outcry and indignation from the rest of the Muslim world? I haven't seen it. I do remember seeing celebration in the streets in Muslim countries right after 911.

A Muslim would have as much chance at this election as Johnny Reb would have after the Civil War or a Japanese American would have had after WWII. You tell me, how much chance is that?

 

[uk_dave]

Well, yes, that's what the word means. But the Arabic word just sounds so sinister.

I dunno.... just makes me want a curry.

 

[FaisonMars]

A Muslim would have as much chance at this election as Johnny Reb would have after the Civil War or a Japanese American would have had after WWII. You tell me, how much chance is that?

You are correct, but we're not as stupid as that.

 

[Undesired Walrus]

BTW since it was just a small group of "Muslim extremists" where is is the moral outcry and indignation from the rest of the Muslim world? I haven't seen it. I do remember seeing celebration in the streets in Muslim countries right after 911.

Then you look as far for your information on this as you do to establish the religion of Obama's Indonesian school. I think what you remember is that fat woman in Palestine holding her hands up in celebration, the one that is repeated consistently. What you may not remember is the march in Iran in which tens of thousands of people shouted 'Sympathy for America' and lay candles, and the crowd of 60 thousand who held a minutes silence at an evening football match.

Islam is inherently divisive, was created as a kind of crackpot religous racism, and demeans what it is to be human. The people who have the accident to be born into it have the ability to ignore most of its teachings, and plenty do. Just slapping a picture of 9/11 up there is idiotic.

 

[Upchurch]

Stop it. You're not that obtuse.

You are the one who pulled out the weak emotional appeal rather than making an actual argument. Should we refer to Timothy McVeigh's agnosticism when discussing whether or not an agnostic would make a good President?

You're the one who pulled out the BS. I'm just curious how far you actually believe in it.

BTW since it was just a small group of "Muslim extremists" where is is the moral outcry and indignation from the rest of the Muslim world? I haven't seen it. I do remember seeing celebration in the streets in Muslim countries right after 911.

How hard did you look?

The Palestinian Authority, which had immediately condemned the September 11th attacks, moved to quash further reports of public celebrations, claiming that they were unrepresentative of the Palestinian people. The Palestinian information minister Yasser Abed Rabbo said the Palestinian Authority would not allow "a few kids" to "smear the real face of the Palestinians".

{snip}

Annette Krüger Spitta of the ARD's (German public broadcasting) TV magazine Panorama claimed that while the footage was indeed correctly dated, other footage shows that the street around the celebration is quiet. Furthermore she claimed that a man in a white T-shirt incited the children and is fetching new people. The Panorama report from September 20, 2001 has communications Professor Martin Löffelholz explaining that in the images one sees jubilant Palestinian children and several adults but that does not know whether they are pleased about the attack. The woman who is remembered for her cheering (Nowel Abdel Fatah) stated afterwards that she was offered cake if she celebrates on camera, and that she was frightened when she saw the pictures on television.

In fact, Gallup (pdf) found that only 7% of Muslims were radicals (indicating that they didn't like the US and thought the 9/11 attacks were completely justified).

A Muslim would have as much chance at this election as Johnny Reb would have after the Civil War or a Japanese American would have had after WWII. You tell me, how much chance is that?

It wasn't a question of electability. It was a question of whether a Muslim, specifically a hypothetical "secret Muslim Obama" President, would be a bad choice for President.

 

[mrbaracuda]

In fact, Gallup (pdf) found that only 7% of Muslims were radicals (indicating that they didn't like the US and thought the 9/11 attacks were completely justified).

Oh good grief, you are still running around with that?

Radicals vs. the Moderate Masses
In order to investigate characteristics that distinguish Muslim world residents who are potentially prone to extremist views, we divided respondents from the region into two groups. Classified as political radicals were those who met the following criteria: 1) they felt the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, were “completely justified”, and 2) they indicate that they have an “unfavorable” or “very unfavorable” opinion of the United States. Those who did not say the attacks were completely justified were termed moderates. The “radical” group represents about 7% of the total population across the 10 countries included in the study.

 

[Upchurch]

Oh good grief, you are still running around with that?

Good grief, are you still running around with your fingers in your ears trying to ignore evidence that contradicts your worldview?

More to ignore. 55.4% said that the 9/11 attacks could not be justified at all. Only 29.6% fell somewhere in between which might include those who agree with their perception of the politics but not the tactics. In fact, if you'll note that most of those who responded other than "completely justified" do not think sacrificing one's life for a cause is justifiable.

While you're adjusting the blinders to avoid this new information, the part you bolded, italicized, and highlighted? It said "political radicals", not "religious radicals".

 

[The Painter]

It wasn't a question of electability

It's always a question of electability. That's what makes a good choice. Look at California's last election. There was about 150 candidates running for Governor. It's all about electability.

 

[Upchurch]

It's always a question of electability. That's what makes a good choice. Look at California's last election. There was about 150 candidates running for Governor. It's all about electability.

I have to disagree. Electability is certainly not the same thing as being able to be a good and wise leader.

Electability is based on those qualities that appeals to the masses. Consider Bush in 2000. He ran, among other things, a campaign where he was presented as the common man. Someone you could go have a beer with. Think about all the people you know who drink beer. Would all of those people make a good choice as President?

Electability is just good marketing. Making a good choice is about the quality of the product.

 

[The Painter]

Electability is certainly not the same thing as being able to be a good and wise leader.

I never said it was the same thing, did I? Your quality of the product can sit home while Bubba runs the show. Quality of the product does no good if it can't get elected. Adlai Stevenson was a quality product, lost twice.

Anyway the best person for the job never runs.

 

[Upchurch]

I never said it was the same thing, did I?

You said a Muslim would not be a good choice for President, in short, because s/he could not get elected, did you not? What you are suggesting is that whoever manages to get the job was the best choice for the job.

So, yeah, basically. You did.

 

[The Painter]

I think I said

A Muslim presidential candidate would not have a snowballs chance in hell of being elected, and you know it.

You can put up all the good choices you want. If they don't get elected it was not a wise choice. Where did I say the person who gets elected is "a good and wise leader"? Maybe I was wrong. You are that obtuse.

 

[Upchurch]

I think I said

A Muslim presidential candidate would not have a snowballs chance in hell of being elected, and you know it.

Before that, you said:

I have a question... what if he were a Muslim? How would that make him a bad choice for President?

Just a guess, but I'd say some people are still upset by this;

[qimg]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/Lexapro/111wtcreutersitaly-1.jpg[/qimg]

The question was "How would that make him a bad choice for President?" Your response was that he couldn't get elected. That means that inability to get elected makes him a bad choice for President.

Did you not understand the question? Do you still not understand the question?

 

[UserGoogol]

Before that, you said:

The question was "How would that make him a bad choice for President?" Your response was that he couldn't get elected. That means that inability to get elected makes him a bad choice for President.

Did you not understand the question? Do you still not understand the question?

Strictly speaking, there were two questions: "What if he were a Muslim?" and "How would that make him a bad choice for the President?" He answered the first one, although in such a way that it appeared he was also answering the second.