Merged U.S.O.'s...what if...

[Cuddles]

While I can't say for certain what they were, I can only say that no craft I have ever seen or studied could achieve the aerial feats that these craft demonstrated.

So why assume they were craft at all? You saw something that could not possibly have been a human aircraft. There are two possible conclusions from this - either it was a non-human aircraft or it was not an aircraft. One of these is a sensible answer. Why do you insist on choosing the other?

 

[arthwollipot]

Really? And what "normal aerial maneuver" could make a plane "appear" to move at a 90 degree angle??? Planes don't 'turn' at 90 degree angles, they 'bank' causing their flight path to 'arch'. Even the directional exhaust of an F-22 can't make the jet 'turn' at 90 degrees, without slowing down dramatically. These 'ojects' BROKE the laws of flight, as I know them...

Before I try and answer that, please answer this question: The "objects" you saw - did you see them in daylight, or at night? Were they "lights in the sky"? Or could you clearly make out their shape?

This is important. Please answer to the best of your ability.

And yet humans have used their sight to navigate about this world, hunt the animals that crawl upon it, and even to shot at and kill their fellow man. Our sight may be limited, but it is far from useless... What I saw was some for which I had NO 'rational explanation' for. Human machines can't do what these objects managed to accomplish. Of course, I'd amend that stance if the government rolled out a pair of craft that could join together in mid-flight, increase their mass by 2 fold, and then separate again into their individual states.

And what convinced you that these objects increased their mass? Surely they increased their size only? Unless you have some method or device for measuring the mass of a distant object?

Anyway, what you are saying lends support to the idea that what you saw were not manufactured objects at all - neither human nor non-human in origin. That having been said, there are situations where manufactured objects can give the illusion of joining together, increasing their size, and so forth. Nothing you have said makes me want to conclude that there is anything other than a perfectly normal explanation for what you saw.

I don't know and wouldn't wager what is more or less 'likely' when it comes to positively identifying what is a U.F.O. trait or attribute. What I know is that the objects I saw, along with another eye witness, dis-obeyed the laws of flight and motion as I know them. These objects stretched the envelope of flight capabilities to limits I could not imagine, before.

While I can't say for certain what they were, I can only say that no craft I have ever seen or studied could achieve the aerial feats that these craft demonstrated.

Then they were not craft. Isn't that obvious?

 

[King of the Americas]

So why assume they were craft at all? You saw something that could not possibly have been a human aircraft. There are two possible conclusions from this - either it was a non-human aircraft or it was not an aircraft. One of these is a sensible answer. Why do you insist on choosing the other?

Because these things 'moved'...they were NOT stationary. They were luminated, and moved in concert with the others in the sky.

These 'things' were airborne, and meet every defination of "aircraft" that one could manage.

I 'insist' because this is what I saw.

 

[King of the Americas]

Before I try and answer that, please answer this question: The "objects" you saw - did you see them in daylight, or at night? Were they "lights in the sky"? Or could you clearly make out their shape?

This is important. Please answer to the best of your ability.

My friend and I were scouting out a place to go camping right near the bank of the Red River near Gainesville Texas, when I saw an unusual cloud formation/shape in the sky due North of our position. I saw it was 'unusual' because it was oddly semetrical. It looked cigar shaped, with very tapered ends. Stuff is almost never perfectly semetrical in nature, so I got a thought in my head, to use this unusual shape to screw with my friend.

I said, "Hey Jon, look at that UFO, man!" "That just a cloud, man...", he rebuked. "No, look how perfectly semetrical it is. That NOT just a cloud, it is something else!", and then I began flashing my headlights with high beam on, at it. After my second series of flashings, the right side of the cloud-looking object "shrank", and instead of a tappered edge, it seemed to "square off", like someone had used a cigar cutter on the end.

My friend and I just sat there in stunned silence. All this happened in about 2-3 minutes, at around 7:45-8:00 during the early to mid-summer. It was light enough to still see a potential camping site, but the sun was retreating quickly and stars were just beginning to appear.

Once the cigar shaped 'cloud-UFO' squared itself, and the initial shock wore off, I began flashing my lights again, in an attempt to get a reaction...which my friend was totally against.

The result of my flashing was for a 'star-like' object to appear at the squared edge of the cigar. Then the object took off in a straight line and then held its position, only to have another similiar object emerge from the cigar shape, which also took to a position and stopped. This continued to happed untill there were 7 such objects. Then they started to move in concert with one another. The first one to move made an "L" shaped flight pattern, and stopped. Then another made a "Z" shaped flight path, then two others moved toward one another, joined together, and increased their "size" by 4 fold. If you take 2 pieces fo clay and mash them into one ball the size of the ball doesn't increase dramatically. These 2 objects, after joining together, DID.

So, to answer your question, I saw both- something that had "shape", and mere "lights".

(*I have told this tale more than once, here. I am sure you could read my initial account somewhere here.)

Anyway, what you are saying lends support to the idea that what you saw were not manufactured objects at all - neither human nor non-human in origin. That having been said, there are situations where manufactured objects can give the illusion of joining together, increasing their size, and so forth. Nothing you have said makes me want to conclude that there is anything other than a perfectly normal explanation for what you saw.

Then they were not craft. Isn't that obvious?

There was NOTHING 'obvious', about what we saw that evening, except that it was obvious that I had NEVER seen anything like this before.

 

[Cuddles]

Because these things 'moved'...they were NOT stationary. They were luminated, and moved in concert with the others in the sky.

These 'things' were airborne, and meet every defination of "aircraft" that one could manage.

I 'insist' because this is what I saw.

Wow. Things in the sky moving in the same way as other similar things. That's certainly nothing at all like clouds or birds or anything else entirely mundane.

My friend and I were scouting out a place to go camping right near the bank of the Red River near Gainesville Texas, when I saw an unusual cloud formation/shape in the sky due North of our position. I saw it was 'unusual' because it was oddly semetrical. It looked cigar shaped, with very tapered ends. Stuff is almost never perfectly semetrical in nature, so I got a thought in my head, to use this unusual shape to screw with my friend.

I said, "Hey Jon, look at that UFO, man!" "That just a cloud, man...", he rebuked. "No, look how perfectly semetrical it is. That NOT just a cloud, it is something else!", and then I began flashing my headlights with high beam on, at it. After my second series of flashings, the right side of the cloud-looking object "shrank", and instead of a tappered edge, it seemed to "square off", like someone had used a cigar cutter on the end.

My friend and I just sat there in stunned silence. All this happened in about 2-3 minutes, at around 7:45-8:00 during the early to mid-summer. It was light enough to still see a potential camping site, but the sun was retreating quickly and stars were just beginning to appear.

Once the cigar shaped 'cloud-UFO' squared itself, and the initial shock wore off, I began flashing my lights again, in an attempt to get a reaction...which my friend was totally against.

The result of my flashing was for a 'star-like' object to appear at the squared edge of the cigar. Then the object took off in a straight line and then held its position, only to have another similiar object emerge from the cigar shape, which also took to a position and stopped. This continued to happed untill there were 7 such objects. Then they started to move in concert with one another. The first one to move made an "L" shaped flight pattern, and stopped. Then another made a "Z" shaped flight path, then two others moved toward one another, joined together, and increased their "size" by 4 fold. If you take 2 pieces fo clay and mash them into one ball the size of the ball doesn't increase dramatically. These 2 objects, after joining together, DID.

This is just too good. On a cloudy evening with some stars visible, you saw some things that looked like clouds, with some things that looked like stars near them.

Is that really it? Considering how you've been carrying on I thought you'd at least pretend to have seen something impressive. That's by far the most pathetic description of a UFO sighting that I've ever seen. Hell, I've had more convincing sightings than that.

 

[mikeyx]

l in and out of our oceans, or to the moon is 'possible' by human hands.

I don't know what they are, but having seen them with mine own eyes, you could call me a "knower", rather than a "believer".

Do you have better photos than MUFON? Theirs suck. Or any proof?

 

[mikeyx]

Hahaha very amusing.

I assume you aren't serious.

You're adding credence that ufoism is kinda sorta a religiony thing in its own right.

 

[mikeyx]

Incidentally, are you thinking they come from the hollow earth? Thats always a fun fringe theory.

 

[arthwollipot]

My friend and I were...
There was NOTHING 'obvious', about what we saw that evening, except that it was obvious that I had NEVER seen anything like this before.

So you saw something that you've never seen before. Is that a reason to jump to the conclusion that what you saw was non-human and non-natural in origin? Did you even consider alternative explanations?

I said, "Hey Jon, look at that UFO, man!"

Oh, I guess not.

 

[King of the Americas]

So you saw something that you've never seen before. Is that a reason to jump to the conclusion that what you saw was non-human and non-natural in origin? Did you even consider alternative explanations?

"alternative explainations"...? The 'manner' in which these things moved, as well as their general appearance, left me no choice but to abandon 'normal explainations'. Neither planes nor birds move or CAN in the way these things did. I'd PREFER that I could explain what I saw with an everyday, run-of-the-mill solution, but the evidence I witnessed would not allow it.

Oh, I guess not.

I made that statement, BEFORE I knew or thought it was a real U.F.O. I said it, just to see if I could screw with my friend a little.

ONLY after it changed shape AND emmited several objects itself, did I begin to reconsider what it was I was looking at.

 

[King of the Americas]

Wow. Things in the sky moving in the same way as other similar things. That's certainly nothing at all like clouds or birds or anything else entirely mundane.

At the peril of repeating myself, "...these things did NOT move like planes, birds, satelites, or falling stars. They made right angle turns without slowing down. They JOINED TOGETHER, to make a larger version of themselves."

They were NOT like clouds, birds, or anthing else mundane.

This is just too good. On a cloudy evening with some stars visible, you saw some things that looked like clouds, with some things that looked like stars near them.

Is that really it? Considering how you've been carrying on I thought you'd at least pretend to have seen something impressive. That's by far the most pathetic description of a UFO sighting that I've ever seen. Hell, I've had more convincing sightings than that.

Really? Do tell.

 

[arthwollipot]

"alternative explainations"...? The 'manner' in which these things moved, as well as their general appearance, left me no choice but to abandon 'normal explainations'. Neither planes nor birds move or CAN in the way these things did. I'd PREFER that I could explain what I saw with an everyday, run-of-the-mill solution, but the evidence I witnessed would not allow it.

You clearly did not consider all alternatives - that, for example, what you saw was an optical illusion.

I made that statement, BEFORE I knew or thought it was a real U.F.O. I said it, just to see if I could screw with my friend a little.

And if I asked your friend what he saw, I would lay bets that he would describe something different.

You are assuming that what you saw could only have been a manufactured object or an animal. There are other explanations than that. Secondly, you are relying on memory - an unreliable method at best.

Every time you retell the story, your brain is re-manufacturing the details. As I and others have pointed out to you countless times before, we make our own memories. They are not a movie that you can play over and over again. The story you tell now is probably somewhat different from the story that you told the day after the event.

I don't know what you saw. But nothing you have said is sufficient to convince me that you saw anything other than a natural phenomenon or optical illusion of some kind. You certainly did not see any kind of vehicle, human-manufactured or otherwise.

 

[arthwollipot]

Here's an example of an optical illusion that can make objects appear to do something impossible:

I once saw a ufo make a sharp instantaneous 90 degree turn.......until I realised that I had just witnessed a chance alignment of two aircraft at different heights crossing each others paths from my perspective made all the more convincing because of the patches of cloud in the area which happened to hide one as the other appeared just after the crossover point.

(quoted from the Have you ever experienced a paranorman phenomenon thread).

 

[Cuddles]

They JOINED TOGETHER, to make a larger version of themselves."

Because no natural or man-made object could ever do something as amazing as that.

Really? Do tell.

I saw a light in the sky. I don't know what it was.

And you know why that is more amazing than your account? Because my account doesn't involve stars and clouds being mistaken for aliens. Seriously, have a look at your account again:

I saw an unusual cloud formation... [description of normal cloud behaviour]... stars were just beginning to appear... a 'star-like' object to appear at...

I mean, wow. An object in the sky that looks and behaves like a cloud, and an object that looks like a star appearing among the stars. Amazing.


Edit: I'd just like to add that my problem isn't with your experience at all, it's the conclusions you draw from it. Notice the difference between your response to your experience and my response to mine. In your case, you saw something you can't explain. From the way you describe it, it doesn't sound in the least bit impressive, but that is not the point. The problem is very simply that you can't explain it, and neither can anyone else, because there simply isn't enough information to go on. You were there, but human observation is notoriously unreliable, and human memory even more so, so what you think you saw, no matter how much you believe it, is very likely not what actually happened. It may be an optical illusion, it may be misinterpretation, it may be hallucination, it may be false or distorted memory, it may simply be made up, or any of a huge number of other possibilities. Without other witnesses, recordings, replications and so on, it is impossible for anyone, not just me, not just you, anyone, to ever know what this actually was.

This is where my response to my sighting comes in. I saw something. I can eliminate most explanations people can think of. The conclusion is not that I saw something amazing, it is simply that I saw something and can't ever know what it was. It was probably entirely normal, but since I couldn't study it properly at the time, I can never have the data to know for sure. This is what you should also be saying. I can't debunk or explain away your experience because I simply don't have enough to go on (although from what you've said so far I'm considerably less than impressed). But neither can you draw any conclusions from it, because you don't have enough to go on either.

The problem that you, and so many believers in UFOs, bigfoot, psychics, and so on, have is that you appear to really hate uncertainty. When it comes to things like this, "I don't know" and "Not enough information" are not only acceptable answers, they are often the only honest answers possible. You cannot jump from "I saw something once" straight to "There are obviously non-human intelligent lifeforms living on the Earth flying far more advanced aircraft than are known to exist, or even be possible". That's not just a big leap, it's strapping on a rocket pack and launching yourself from a cliff. Your experience may be everything you claim it to be or it may be absolutely nothing, either way, the conclusions you reach from it are utter nonsense.

 

[arthwollipot]

Well said, Cuddles.