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Bigfoot - The Patterson-Gimlin Film

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If we're going to accept the tree knot photo as an accurate indication of McClarin being taller than Patty then there are certain other comparisons that get posted from time to time that are no less inaccuate yet becaue they raise questions that fly in the face of the skeptic community are debunked as unuseable for a virtual laundry list of reasons. THere are as many variables that can make the McClarin height comparison invalid as there are variables that make most of the other comparisons invalid.

However I find the McClarin film interesting because it provides an excellent contrast a bonified human being traversing Bluff Creek and the subject of the PGF. McClarin does a splendid job of providing us with a textbook human locomotion. I don't think anyone will ever get McClarins gait mixed up with Patty's.
 
Look at the quality of the evidence and methodology presented by QM folks. Now compare this with what’s been used to back bigfoot's reality.

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You mean the part where our 'intelligence' can travel through black holes and zip along strings?

Why not compare it to the rigors of NOAA (there is no more a respected scientific group) that supported the lobster and long line fisheries here in Hawaii, declaring the fisheries healthy and sustainable. They've collapsed already.

Let's just stick to bigfoot. I'd really like to see Mythbusters tackle the PGF with the Morris suit. And Bob H.'s input. There's alot of pertinent information available now that could be applied to a major 'production' type episode(s).
 
However I find the McClarin film interesting because it provides an excellent contrast a bonified human being traversing Bluff Creek and the subject of the PGF. McClarin does a splendid job of providing us with a textbook human locomotion. I don't think anyone will ever get McClarins gait mixed up with Patty's.

Which means absolutely nothing. You wouldn't mix up my gait with most any other human's gait either (my grandfather said I 'Indian walk'), but that isn't poof that I'm inhuman is it?

Want more examples? I can't swim as fast as Phelps, no one can. Does that prove he is a different race? Very few people could match my voice, am I inhuman? My brother used to be a tenor one, with a rang down to bass. Very few humans can do that. Is he inhuman too?

Besides, without the same costume it's hard to 'act' the specific walk anyway. The area has changed over the years too. The conditions are not the same again, although that is a minor complaint. But then again these points have been said many, many times in this threat. I'm just hoping that having yet another person repeat it might help.
 
However I find the McClarin film interesting because it provides an excellent contrast a bonified human being traversing Bluff Creek and the subject of the PGF. McClarin does a splendid job of providing us with a textbook human locomotion. I don't think anyone will ever get McClarins gait mixed up with Patty's.

Surely Crow you realize that McClarins isn't wearing a suit right??

Also,people have different gaits in all kinds of places all over the world....so what's your point?

I'd also add here that I don't find Bob H's...errrrrrr....I mean Patties gait all that exotic and bizarre to begin with...but that's besides the point I'm sure.
 
How about a series of cameras designed to capture video in areas where Bigfeet are supposedly out and about. I read all sorts of stories of bigfeet investigators hearing howling, breaking branches, rubbing sticks, etc. but not one of these organizations set up low light video cameras that catch the bigfeet in the act. The Buttprint (skookhum or however you spell it) is the same way. They set out bait but don't bother to video the bait trap. Exactly what kind of amateurish organization is conducting this science? It seems to me the reason they chose not to videotape the trap is because they wanted to present some sort of evidence and a video camera would have revealed the true source of the buttprint.

It wasn't possible to have cameras at all the bait traps, but they did have cameras set up in the area. The hairflow on the Skookum "buttprint" matches another cast of a buttprint from Washington State, incidently.

There are two live feeds going on currently that I know of - they're pretty expensive to set up. I don't have a lot of hope for trail cams.
 
Copy and paste from "enthusiast" John Green's review: (snip)

http://www.bigfootencounters.com/reviews/long.htm

This is supposed to be some good material? This is supposed to be significant to someone who knows Heironimus was connected to Patterson and Gimlin and Philip Morris has a known history of falsely taking credit for things he had nothing to do with? All you did was cut and paste John Green's long-winded way of saying that Morris and Heironimus' description of how they thought the suit was made differs. So what?
 
If we're going to accept the tree knot photo as an accurate indication of McClarin being taller than Patty then there are certain other comparisons that get posted from time to time that are no less inaccuate yet becaue they raise questions that fly in the face of the skeptic community are debunked as unuseable for a virtual laundry list of reasons. .

Like this one?

billmiller13.gif


Looks to me she's leaning more forward than McClarin in the tree knot shot and her head is down where his is up.
 
Which means absolutely nothing. You wouldn't mix up my gait with most any other human's gait either (my grandfather said I 'Indian walk'), but that isn't poof that I'm inhuman is it?

Want more examples? I can't swim as fast as Phelps, no one can. Does that prove he is a different race? Very few people could match my voice, am I inhuman? My brother used to be a tenor one, with a rang down to bass. Very few humans can do that. Is he inhuman too?

Besides, without the same costume it's hard to 'act' the specific walk anyway. The area has changed over the years too. The conditions are not the same again, although that is a minor complaint. But then again these points have been said many, many times in this threat. I'm just hoping that having yet another person repeat it might help.

Can you state for certain that the costume is responsible for the gait we see in PGF? How does one equate the hunched forward gait of the PGF with the bolt upright gait of McMlarin? Its worth investigating what Bob H says about the nature of his walk when he claims to have worn the suit. According to Bob, Patterson instructed him to walk a certain way. Patterson didn't say "Just put the suit on and walk normal." Whoever/whatever is on that film either walked as it naturally does or it was a human in a suit walking in an instructed manner. Since probability favors a human in a suit its a human trying not to walk too much like a human.

Your Phelps argument is invalid. Phelps ability to swaim fast only makes him the fastest human swimmer. I'm confident that if you were filmed walking side by side down the street with Phelps that nobody would mistake either your anatomy and movements with anything other than being human.
 
It wasn't possible to have cameras at all the bait traps, but they did have cameras set up in the area. The hairflow on the Skookum "buttprint" matches another cast of a buttprint from Washington State, incidently.

That is such a cop out. We did not have enough cameras? The idea that it is too expensive is a load of nonsense and just an excuse IMO. What is the point of setting out bait if you aren't going to figure out what took the bait? Isn't it odd that one of the traps that did not have a camera was the one that got the print? Real scientists would never allow their work to be subject to interpretation this way. Pseudoscientists constantly work this way in order to perpetuate a mystery. This is why there are "distant howls", "stick scraping", broken twigs/branches, "footprints" are used as "evidence" instead of the real thing.

BTW, if you don't have much hope for trail cameras, then you must believe there is an extremely small population of bigfeet, which is much smaller than the implied population from all the sightings reported across the US. If this is the case, are all these individuals reporting their sightings of bigfoot liars or simply confabulating?
 
That is such a cop out. We did not have enough cameras? The idea that it is too expensive is a load of nonsense and just an excuse IMO. What is the point of setting out bait if you aren't going to figure out what took the bait? Isn't it odd that one of the traps that did not have a camera was the one that got the print? Real scientists would never allow their work to be subject to interpretation this way. Pseudoscientists constantly work this way in order to perpetuate a mystery. This is why there are "distant howls", "stick scraping", broken twigs/branches, "footprints" are used as "evidence" instead of the real thing.

BTW, if you don't have much hope for trail cameras, then you must believe there is an extremely small population of bigfeet, which is much smaller than the implied population from all the sightings reported across the US. If this is the case, are all these individuals reporting their sightings of bigfoot liars or simply confabulating?


PNW population (if in existance) 200-300. A nationwide population in the thousands is ubsurd. Hmmm could there be more Bigfoot in the wild than California Condors? Funny we see the 100 or so Californa Condors.....
 
Who cares? Philip Morris was a hack. Have you listened to the Verne Langdon interview yet?

Nope. I now have Is It Real? on tape and I was watching that (I'm still reeling, as it were). I have an assignment due so Verne will have to wait until I can download it and try to find time to listen at work. I read some of his posts on BFF. Was the interview significantly different except for "Jerry"?
 
Skookum...

Buttprint, testicleprint, kneeprint, armprint, legprint, hairflow...

Since its claimed by some footers that Swindler, after seeing it, though it was from a gigantopithecus, there must be a very good lower jawprint also. That's all we have from those critters. Would he extrapolate anatomical data taken from a jaw to the point of creating a mental model of the critter which was good enough to be compared with the cast and result in a positive ID? Considering that it may be from an unknown bipedal primate is one thing. Stating genus is another completley different thing.

Seems another fishy footer tale. Second-hand accounts, quote cherry-picking, distorted statements, anedoctes, etc. Normal pseudoscience stuff. Bigfootery will continue to be pseudoscience as long as these practices continue.
 
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Please keep in mind that Crow has told us numerous times that she thinks Patty is a bloke in a suit, but for some odd reason keeps arguing from the other side of the fence.
 
Nope. I now have Is It Real? on tape and I was watching that (I'm still reeling, as it were). I have an assignment due so Verne will have to wait until I can download it and try to find time to listen at work. I read some of his posts on BFF. Was the interview significantly different except for "Jerry"?
What? You want me to do your homework for you? :D The very important aspect about that very entertaining interview is that it clearly establishes that Philip Morris is a dishonest individual. He chucked his claim at the PGF for the publicity.

Plus it's much better than listening to Owen Caddy mumble through a bunch of pseudo-science.
 
The Bible is a mixture of myths from various sources and historical (as well as semi-historical) accounts with varied amounts of fiction, written by many individuals. Some places cited at the Bible are real, some people were real, some accounts are of real facts. The Book of Mormon comes from a single source - J. Smith. The book of Mormon adds to the Bible an extra big layer of claims that are not supported by evidence. The core of these claims is tested every time archeologists work at North America, every time geneticists check DNA from Native Americans and every time their languages and cultures are studied. So far, no reliable evidences were found. If you want to learn more about it, please use the search function (restrict your search to the Religion and Philosophy subforum). There are a number of very good threads on this subject, with the participation of Mormons.

You just built a false dichotomy.
One thing is to tender some sort of religion or to feel somehow culturally linked to one. The use of poor methodology to defend the veracity of a religious text is a completely different thing. That's the sort of work that can be throw out.

Nope. Saying an individual is using poor methodology and biased analysis is not an ad hom, since person is not being attacked. My critics are directed towards what I consider to be poor methodology, and this includes taking the literal veracity of a religious text as the immutable starting point and then start looking for reasons to prove it correct (or not wrong). It is an analogy with the way I see his bigfoot research- the starting point (bigfeet are real) is based on belief, not in good reliable evidence and is not subject to change. No, he is not alone, many a footer do the same thing.


He may be an expert, but the evidence (or the lack of) indicates he is wrong when it comes to bigfeet being real.
He examined and scanned all those casts and obtained exactly what? Has he found two with the same "dermals"? Has he found "dermals" which can not be explained as casting artifacts?

He used evidences suspected of being a hoax (PGF and the casts produced by Paterson) as the backbone of his paper. This is weak evidence and poor data handling IMHO.

I see a pattern too. Weak evidence (misidentifications and hoaxes included) accepted as reliable pieces of evidences and being used to build flawed reasonings and conclusions. Belief creating analysis bias. Even in the highly unlikely case of bigfeet being real the methodology he is using will still be poor.



Here's two of them, you will find more of after some Googling if you want.
http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/bf-me/
http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?showtopic=22995&st=33


No. I have "a problem" with religious fundamentalism and pseudoscience.
I think this is a fantastic summation of the flawed reasoning of 'voice of reason' Meldrum.
 
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