Question for twoofers who are NOT anti-semites

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Being capable of seeing shades of grey as opposed to only black and white, I have no problems with the statements I have read. Soomehow, I don't see the hate filled trash that you do.

The Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice group is larger than Steve Jones and has cleary denounced "ALL forms of prejudice and bigotry" in this statement on their public web site.



I know of no member that has denounced any religion or racial group, or denies the holocaust. Please let me know if you know of any!

Definition of "irony": Asking a 9/11 twoofer what they intend to do about the large number of hitler-lovers in their ranks and watching them respond by copying this guy.

 

[beachnut]

I'm Jewish. Please see the Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice statements against violence and racism.

When will they denounce those who make up lies about 9/11 (thermite) and those who spread false information about 9/11, known as 9/11 truth.

When will they publish a statement against making up false witness against others, and false ideas about 9/11?

I doubt your organization is capable of telling the truth since their core idea is based on Jones's thermite being used to bring down the WTC complex. Thermite is a lie, Jones made it up for unknown reasons 4 years after 9/11. One of the core crazy ideas, thermite is equal to the other crazy ideas when you consider the evidence; holographic planes, nukes, DEW, and no planes, just like thermite.

Why do truthers miss the NAZI apologists among them?
They lack the research to see the hate filled minds make excuses for the NAZIs. The NAZI apologist make excuses, the truthers have not read the work of the NAZI apologists to see the lies they make up. This is the same great research truthers bring to bear on 9/11 issues and miss the truth due to faulty research and ignoring the evidence.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

*bump*

Any truthers care to respond to the original question?

 

[TheLoneBedouin]

Sword of truth,
What do you, as a member of the general population, intend to do about the large number of Hitler-lovers in your ranks?

 

[Alex Libman]

It is a fact 19 terrorist carried out 9/11. How did you miss that? UBL told us what was coming; he promised to kill Americans when he could.

Yes, that's my problem, I "missed it". The official story was way too much information for my little brain to comprehend. It's not like I spent years thinking about 9/11 every single day to form my opinion. I'm just a 1970s computer trying to play a DVD, still bliting the first row of pixels on frame one...

Your Revolutionary Anarchistsact is really,really getting old and is impressing nobody.

I'm neither revolutionary nor anarchiwhateveryousaid. I'm just a skeptic who doesn't share your blind faith in government. Deal with it.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Sword of truth,
What do you, as a member of the general population, intend to do about the large number of Hitler-lovers in your ranks?

I'll tell you what I did.

I used to be a "pre-9/11 twoofer". I drank the kool-aid and embraced the woo. I bought into the Waco theories, the Oklahoma City theories, pretty much everything bad that was said about Clinton, the NWO, the banking system... basically the same gibberish, minus the blatantly racist crap, that drove Timothy McVeigh to murder 167 innocent people.

And that was the thing... I wish I could tell this forum that it was critical thinking that first caused me to distance myself from that crowd. But I think being confronted with an outrageous violation of a deeply held moral value is just as good.

I always knew that racism and religious bigotry were wrong. But when I ran with the conspiracist crowd, I read things like the Spotlight and the Micheal Journal and I saw how all the "bad guys" in the editorial cartoons always had big noses, and there were other hints of anti-semitism too. But I just hand-waved it away. And I even had my own personal pet conspiracy theory that the anti-semites were actually few in number in the movement and were all secretly working for the NWO to make us all look bad and cause division in the movement as agents provocateurs.

Until one day there was a convention of the Alberta Social Credit Party, that I was involved with at the time and was undergoing an internal power struggle between the conspiracists and a mainstream conservative faction, and the conspiracist group that I had been meeting with was plotting something of an electoral coup to take back the party. During the drive down to Red Deer and while seated at the convention I was next to a guy that I just met that morning and was the one we selected to be elected to the party presidency. He and I spent most of the day chatting and agreeing on almost everything... until he started up on the Ten Commandments.

According to him, Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery was not about staying faithful to ones wife as I thought it to be. Instead it was a commandment to refrain from "adulterating" ones bloodline. He further claimed that anyone who marries outside their race deserves the death penalty. And the first thing I thought of was the friends I have who were in interracial marriages.

And here I was helping this guy assume a prominent position within a fast rising political party.

After that, I didn't talk to that guy for the rest of the day. And I didn't attend any of our groups meetings after that either. And it was a short time later that I discovered he was a Holocaust denier/nazi-sympathizer. Which was unsurprising given his violent views on racial purity. And within the Social Credit Party, I switched my allegiance from the conspiraquacks to the "mainstream conservative" faction. And I ultimately resigned my position on the party board of directors when the conspiraquacks launched a second, more successful coup attempt a couple years later effectively terminating the Socreds brief resurgence.

You asked me what I would do if confronted by the prevelance of the Hitler-lovers that you march alongside and I've told you. I turned my back on them, I walked away. When I was faced with evil in a form I couldn't hand-wave away, I did the right thing.

Now I am holding you to the same standard I held myself. You know these people infest the twoof movement like a plague. It's up to you to do the right thing.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

I'm neither revolutionary nor anarchiwhateveryousaid. I'm just a skeptic who doesn't share your blind faith in government. Deal with it.

Read my history, Alex. I don't have the "blind faith" that you accuse us of.

Your movement has a nazi problem. Are you going to do something about it now? Or wait till they've already rode your coattails into positions of power?

 

[Disenchanted]

I'm neither revolutionary nor anarchiwhateveryousaid. I'm just a skeptic who doesn't share your blind faith in government. Deal with it.

You are not a skeptic because skeptics base their views on evidence and facts. It is not a matter of blind faith in the government it is a matter of all the evidence that shows that 19 terrorists were responsible for the attacks.

It is those who believe that the government would be super competent enough to execute some gigantic plot that have blind faith.

 

[TheLoneBedouin]

You asked me what I would do if confronted by the prevelance of the Hitler-lovers that you march alongside and I've told you.

No no no! I said:

What do you, as a member of the general population, intend to do about the large number of Hitler-lovers in your ranks?

There are a lot of "Hitler-lovers" that are also members of the human species. You say:

I turned my back on them, I walked away. When I was faced with evil in a form I couldn't hand-wave away, I did the right thing.

When you say you "turned your back on them" you mean you quit the movement. So when you were "faced with [the Hitler-loving] evil" of the human race did you turn your back on humanity and become a hermit?

 

[Jontg]

Did you abandon the human race because it happens to contain whoever was responsible for 9/11? Honestly, I side with you over Sword here; the fact that unpleasant people are part of a given group is not grounds for dismissing the group itself as unpleasant.
For example, I find some people on this site to be almost as mindless and sheep-like as you folks; I've seen people accuse your movement of being al-Qaeda sympathizers, swallow propaganda hook, line, and sinker, and even defend the legitimacy of the past two elections. But that doesn't make you right, any more than the neo-nazis and potential mad bombers in your ranks make you wrong.

 

[beachnut]

...The official story was way too much information for my little brain to comprehend. ...

I'm neither revolutionary nor anarchiwhateveryousaid. I'm just a skeptic who doesn't share your blind faith in government. Deal with it.

You are not a skeptic, you lack knowledge on 9/11, image you are a great skeptic as you spew woo of 9/11 truth.

Your lack of knowledge is driven by your bias and hate towards government. Your failed ideas due to your bias; how sad. You think you are some great mind knowing what went down on 9/11 and you can't provide on single piece of evidence to support your ideas; failed ideas. You can't even comment on the neoNAZIs in the group you have become an apologist for.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

No no no! I said:

There are a lot of "Hitler-lovers" that are also members of the human species. You say:

When you say you "turned your back on them" you mean you quit the movement. So when you were "faced with [the Hitler-loving] evil" of the human race did you turn your back on humanity and become a hermit?

I've never met any hitler-lovers just walking down the street (at least not that I know of, they are easier to identify when they wear armbands and white hooded dresses).

The only place I have met a real live honest to god hitler-lover is among the tinfoil crowd and God help me, I unknowingly helped him try (and fortunately fail) to achieve a position of some (minor) influence.

When I knew what he was, I did what I had to do.

Why won't you?

 

[deep]

You asked me what I would do if confronted by the prevelance of the Hitler-lovers that you march alongside and I've told you. I turned my back on them, I walked away. When I was faced with evil in a form I couldn't hand-wave away, I did the right thing.

Now I am holding you to the same standard I held myself. You know these people infest the twoof movement like a plague. It's up to you to do the right thing.

OK, suddenly this thread makes a bit more sense, but I still think you're overlooking a few things.

There are people with radical beliefs on both sides of any national or worldly issue (9/11, religion, abortion, etc), and it sounds like those are the people you aligned yourself with. I'm telling you the absolute truth when I say that I don't even know anybody like that - it's a choice that is independent of your beliefs.

It seems like most people here believe that truthers are all radical conspiracy theorists, like the ones you described. While those people certainly do exist, the majority of the truthers I've interacted with in some way are normal, everyday people. They don't believe in other conspiracies (e.g., moon landing, etc), and they even believed the OT for a period of time after 9/11.

I don't blame you for distancing yourself from those people - denying that the holocaust happened is simply not logical. I just think you need to separate the people from the beliefs.

In some cases, you also have to separate the beliefs from the beliefs - someone that believes that a new 9/11 investigation is warranted does not necessarily believe that an NWO takeover is looming on the horizon, etc. I'm not aware of any concrete evidence of any such takeover, and I highly doubt there ever will be any evidence.

 

[CHF]

I don't think the point is that racist scum are present in the TM.

The point is that racist scum are present in the TM and the rest of the movement does nothing about it.

That certainly reflects on the movement as a whole, does it not? After all, it's not like we find a fringe element of the TM snuggling up with the racists.

LC cited the "American Free Press," DG Griffin gives interviews on white power radio, Steven Jones works with Holocaust Deniers and Alex Jones runs banner adds for racist publications.

Those are the very cornerstones of your "movement," kids! And notice that almost all pressure against those people came from debunkers as opposed to the TM rank-and-file.

 

[GregoryUrich]

I don't think the point is that racist scum are present in the TM.

The point is that racist scum are present in the TM and the rest of the movement does nothing about it.

That certainly reflects on the movement as a whole, does it not? After all, it's not like we find a fringe element of the TM snuggling up with the racists.

LC cited the "American Free Press," DG Griffin gives interviews on white power radio, Steven Jones works with Holocaust Deniers and Alex Jones runs banner adds for racist publications.

Those are the very cornerstones of your "movement," kids! And notice that almost all pressure against those people came from debunkers as opposed to the TM rank-and-file.

I have already pointed out one example of the truth movement doing something about it. Here is the TruthMove 2008 declaration, encouraging truth activists to distance themselves from "Holocaust denial/revisionism and Jewish conspiracy theories". These associations fall under the category of "baseless and offensive".

Your categorical criticism of the truth movement on this issue is nothing more than mudslinging and your concerns would be better served by focusing on those organizations where there is actually a problem.

 

[GregoryUrich]

Definition of "irony": Asking a 9/11 twoofer what they intend to do about the large number of hitler-lovers in their ranks and watching them respond by copying this guy.

pic of Sgt. Schultz

Being a jew, it's hard for me to imagine why you are so incensed about this. Historical research and revisionism is legitimate when supported by evidence. If you have a valid issue with any revisionist you should take it up with them.

It seems to me that you are angry at the general truth movement (a large number of loosely or not at all associated groups) for something you experienced in a particular group. It seems your primary motive is to damage the truth movement, which you are demonstrating by ignoring evidence that the some groups have been trying to address this issue. Your concerns would be better served by focusing on the groups in which there is a problem.

If you point out the problems in the various groups, I will do my best to communicate them to the leaders and members. If I ever had a say in the matter (not likely), I could assure you that no racist, bigot or neo-nazi would ever gain a position of power anywhere.

 

[DC]

What price are you willing to pay for your refusal to divest your movement of the malignant, hate-filled racist scum who you are currently marching alongside.

Do you think that on the day after the revolution, that the Nazis in your midst will simply say "Thanks for letting us come along, we just wanted to see a really good fight" and that they will then pack their bags and go home?

What are you going to do when the nazis start calling in the favors they have done you?

How will you answer when Kevin Barrett asks that he be made Attorney General of the United States? When Christopher Bollyn demands to be made Secretary of State? Or when Micheal Rivero, Darryl Bradford Smith or Eric Hufschmid wants to chair the new Department of Racial Purity?

You've made it clear over the last seven years that you won't do anything about the monsters in your midst before your eventual victory. That being the case, you need to consider now, what you are truly willing to do to show that at least half of you really don't have anything against the jewish, or any other non-white, people.

You should preferably do this before your post-revolutionary starts building FEMA camps for real.

the mainreason why i am not member of any 9/11 related group.

btw, what did you do against the monsters in your midst?

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Sword of truth,
What do you, as a member of the general population, intend to do about the large number of Hitler-lovers in your ranks?

The "general population" is not a movement whose members can, as a whole, disassociate themselves from undesirables. The Truth™ movement can; they can collectively make a statement denouncing such racist nonsense and hold to that statement.

The problem is... they won't. "Mainstream" trutherism is absolutely infected with anti-semitic people and ideas. They absolutely can not denounce themselves.

 

[GregoryUrich]

9-11 Research rejects all forms of racism, where racism is understood to mean any of the following:

The belief that one 'racial group' or ethnic group is inferior to another
The doctrine that race is a basic determinant of human abilities or inclinations
The discrimination against or stigmatizing of persons or groups based on their real or perceived racial or ethnic identity
We do not engage in denunciations of the Jewish people or deny the Nazi genocide, and we do not support the current Western attack on Muslim societies promoted as a "War on Terror." While asserting our right to criticize any individual, state, idea, ideology, practice, or policy, we do not base such criticism in any way on notions of race or ethnic membership.

Furthermore, we have observed that attempts to tie "9/11 Truth" to forms of racism and ideas that, if not explicitly racist have profound associations with racist ideologies, are used to discredit rational discourse of the crimes of 9/11/01 and thereby protect the perpetrators. See, for example 9/11 Truth Versus Holocaust Denial.

 

[GregoryUrich]

The "general population" is not a movement whose members can, as a whole, disassociate themselves from undesirables. The Truth™ movement can; they can collectively make a statement denouncing such racist nonsense and hold to that statement.

The problem is... they won't. "Mainstream" trutherism is absolutely infected with anti-semitic people and ideas. They absolutely can not denounce themselves.

I have posted three truth movement groups which clearly distance themselves from racism, bigotry and the neo-nazi movement. You should be aware that there is no "truth movement as a whole". There are a large number of grass-roots organizations and only a few with loose affiliations to others. For this reason, I don't think you will ever see a collective statement from the truth movement about anything. Why not focus on the groups that have problems?