Bigfoot - The Patterson-Gimlin Film

[tyr_13]

An image that you specifically selected, fuzzed up, and shrunk, in no way dismisses the effect of a moving film image having pixelation and light effects creating an illusion of muscles (although from my view, the PGF doesn't show any muscles, but whatever). That would be like saying because I can pass my hand through a candle that flames can't burn flesh. Just because something doesn't absolutely always cause something, doesn't mean it can't.

Heck you aren't even comparing the same thing. For that you'd need a man in a monkey suit walking around with a fuzzy picture. Even then, it doesn't automatically dismiss it. Have you heard about reasonable samples?

Seriously, that's just a silly no matter what side you're on. Do you honestly think and apple to oranges comparison would sway people on a skeptic's board? Wow...

 

[kitakaze]

Sarcasm looks hilarious on you, Sweaty.

According to you...the lower focus, smaller size image helps give Patty that special appearance of real muscle, with movement, and well-defined body contour.

1) According to me? You're precious, Sweaty. Do me a favour and pull up the post where I said that, since it was, you know, 'according to me'.

2) Request # (I've lost count): How many times do you need to be asked to define 'body contour'? Is there something about the question that you find difficult?

3)LTC put it pretty good:

Why is Sweaty calling a bunch of indistinct and variable lumps on Patty "body contour"?

Does anyone know?

Does he think Patty is just naturally lumpy? That her contour is "indistinct lumpiness"?

Maybe it's the patented Diogenes arm donuts that are the contour?

I'd ask Sweaty but you know how he is about actually answering questions. I know he says he'll get to them, but his queue must be a month long by now and I don't want to overload it.

Unicorns and proof vs reliable evidence whenever you're ready.

 

[LTC8K6]

According to you...the lower focus, smaller size image helps give Patty that special appearance of real muscle, with movement, and well-defined body contour.

Why does Sweaty keep doing that?

Few of us, if any, agree that there is any such appearance, movement, or well defined anything, yet Sweaty keeps posting as if these are agreed upon as factual.

He keeps trying to insert things as if they are accepted by all.

He even wrote it as if Kit agreed that Patty had those features.

Why would anyone keep doing that?

 

[kitakaze]

Why does Sweaty keep doing that?

Few of us, if any, agree that there is any such appearance, movement, or well defined anything, yet Sweaty keeps posting as if these are agreed upon as factual.

He keeps trying to insert things as if they are accepted by all.

He even wrote it as if Kit agreed that Patty had those features.

Why would anyone keep doing that?

Anybody not familiar with our precious Sweaty should know that he's not particularily comfortable addressing what we actually say so he's always been rather fond of these:



Poor guy, if he only had a brain. We know you do though, Sweaty, so if you would stop doing that it would be fantastic.

BTW, I know you must be swamped but maybe you could sometime, you know, later, tell us what you think of Gimlin's admission of riding Heironimus' horse at Bluff Creek?

 

[LAL]

MABRC pays you? It's your income? Lu can't pay the bills without sifting footer posts?

No, I don't get paid. It's all volunteer. My asking for a raise is a running joke.

Will you please stop with the "footer" label? I don't call you names.

I've been working ten hour days and I'm plain worn out. Classes just started again and I feel like I didn't get a break. Maybe that's why I'm missing the typos.

Go ahead and repost. Maybe I'll find the time and energy to counter this idea that BFers are YECers. I know of exactly one. Maybe for your next thread you could propose we rape mothers and rob banks.

Hey, Sweaty, how old is the earth?

 

[kitakaze]

No, I don't get paid. It's all volunteer. My asking for a raise is a running joke.

I think you're wasting good time and brain space with that but then again it's my and others contention Bigfootery, or Woods and Wildmen as I like to call it, is a primarily a social pursuit so there you go.

Will you please stop with the "footer" label? I don't call you names.

What could be derogatory about 'footer'? You know, shortened from 'Bigfooter'? Bigfooter do not refer to themselves as such? Bigfoot enthusiast is the commonly used term and one that I'm preferential to but footer is much easier to type.

Go ahead and repost. Maybe I'll find the time and energy to counter this idea that BFers are YECers. I know of exactly one. Maybe for your next thread you could propose we rape mothers and rob banks.

??? That would be called an over-reaction. Just so we are clear, my contention is not all or the majority of BFers are YECers. My contention is that it is a significant element within Bigfootery. Also, I don't think your claim of only knowing one is accurate but would Pastor Kerry be that one?

Hey, Sweaty, how old is the earth?

LOL You should try asking Swaety how old Martian civilization is and how old contact between them and Earth civilization is.

 

[LAL]

Not at all. I'm talking about how people can do "the walk," not saying that someone specific was in the suit. By the way, the "someone" and "say" links in post #15166 lead to a Spanish-dubbed version of the "Best Evidence" program from the Discovery Channel.

Yes, I know. My Spanish is limited to cahones, puto, and Yo no comprendo.

I don't think you watched any of the links I provided.

Yes I did, on a break from class (no speakers on the computer) and tonight after a meeting in Asheville, answering of PMs and e-mail, listening to Steve Kulls on the special blog radio show, checking two boards and putting on a nightgown.

Did you notice Bob's knees weren't rotating as he walks toward the camera?

The horse sequence is on YouTube somewhere in English. No, the PGF was not shot from horseback.

Was that the bar where Bob was overheard planning to make up a story to sell to a tabloid for $50,000?

Dr. Swindler was a skeptic for thirty years (according to John Green), but he looked into it. Rick Noll said he must have watched the PGF a thousand times, shaking his head and saying, "It must be a hoax. It's got to be a hoax."

"Oh, it's just a guy in a costume" sounds pretty skeptical to me. Isn't that what you guys say?

 

[kitakaze]

Did you notice Bob's knees weren't rotating as he walks toward the camera?

Can you post a gif of Patty McLumpy's rotating knees?

Was that the bar where Bob was overheard planning to make up a story to sell to a tabloid for $50,000?

Thank you for the Bigfoot enthusiast anecdote.

Dr. Swindler was a skeptic for thirty years (according to John Green), but he looked into it.

Want another Bigfoot enthusiast anecdote? I like the one where Swindler was observing the Skookum cast for the first time, became visibly shaken, and exclaimed, "it's Giganto!"

Rick Noll said he must have watched the PGF a thousand times, shaking his head and saying, "It must be a hoax. It's got to be a hoax."

LOL Rick Noll. I'm sold.

Lu, any comments on Gimlin's admission that he was riding Heironimus' horse at Bluff Creek?

Also, that silly anecdote about the Bob in the bar... "Yes sir, I'm going to make up a story to sell to a tabloid for $50,000. It's going to be about my buddy and neighbour, Bob Gimlin. It's going to be about that thing he did that time he took my horse to Bluff Creek."



Grim, Lu. It's very, very grim.

 

[xblade]

Yeah, the 6 million dollar man episode is well known. Andre doesn't look too real, though.

I disagree. The rippling muscles are quite obvious. How can you not see it? I think it may have actually been a real bigfoot. Using Andre was just a cover.

 

[LTC8K6]

Did you notice Bob's knees weren't rotating as he walks toward the camera?

We noticed that Patty's knees weren't rotating, either.

Rotating knees again. Sheesh!

Could somebody post that hilarious walking skeleton from LMS again?

The idea that grown men who are supposed to be scientists can be reduced to such shenanigans on camera over a belief is pretty darn funny and pathetic.

Patty walks just like a man. Just like Osman Hill and other experts said oh those many years ago when they watched the PGF.

What part of "manifestly human" is hard to interpret?

Its erect attitude in locomotion, the gait, stride and manner of that locomotion, as well as the relative proportions of pelvic to pectoral limb, are all manifestly human, commented Dr. Osman Hill, Director of Yerkes Regional Primate Research Center, and Emory University.

What part of "consistent with" is hard to interpret from Napier?

He also stated that he was satisfied that the walk of the creature shown in the Patterson-Gimlin film was consistent with the bi-pedal striding gait of man.

How did Patty's walk go from "just like a man" in the opinion of several experts to "so hard to imitate that a man can't do it" ????

 

[Correa Neto]

Actually, when the Wallace family (or was it BH?) somehow made national news, some of the loudest crowing was on creationist sites, to the tune of "Evolutionists wanted you to believe this is a missing link - snark, snark - it's all a hoax". (Picture of Patty included, of course.)The idea of another hominid on earth is a definite threat to their belief system, although they may rationalize it as "just another one of God's creatures". (Neandertals are sons and daughters of Adam and Eve, you know.)

Creationists as well as many a fringe subject enthusiasts, have the annoying tendency for cherry-picking and misinformation spreading. With the exception of some uninformed footers (no, I don't consider the term to be offensive), no one would consider bigfoot as the "missing link" - even if it were real.

Another hominid on Earth may or may not threat their beliefs. They may try to twist the fact to fit their views. Something like "See, science was wrong, they are not extinct and shared Earth with man before the flood". As an OT digression, the "discovery" of bigfeet (if they were real) would be no real threat to their beliefs. The beliefs of the true believers are not challenged by evidence. They would just do what they do regarding the evidences that shatter their beliefs- hide their heads in the sands of the Holy Bible while twisting and cherry picking the data, spreading misinformation, using evasive tactics, appeals to emotion, etc. There's a pattern here.

As alternatives, nephelims aside, we have the "bigfoot is Caim" tale.

I have no idea how most of the members in most of the groups believe. ...snip...

I think reading the posts is enough to give us a qualitative idea. Its good enough to allow us to inferr that people with a reasonalby good level of knoweledge in science (and scientific methodology) are outnumbered by those who also believe in other fringe subjects. Its good enough for me to suppose that probably they are also outnumbered by those who trust more in the words of the Bible than in the words of science.

You might have better luck correlating it to a preference for vanilla pudding or John McCain.

I'm not interested in puddling or McCain. I don't think luck is a factor. There is compelling evidence pointing towards the profile I am sketching. This is the actula factor.

 

[Drewbot]

I sent a message to Dyer asking if he had any Emails implicating Biscardi or Kulls in the Hoax. Hopefully, he will send them to me and I will post them here.

 

[Astrophotographer]

2) Request # (I've lost count): How many times do you need to be asked to define 'body contour'? Is there something about the question that you find difficult?

It is a catch phrase that he keeps repeating to convince himself that Aunt Bunny is not a guy in a suit. It is just like the term "apparent muscle movement" and his crayon drawings. These observations are all based on his own subjective opinion. It means very little from somebody who already believes bigfoot is real.

 

[LAL]

Could somebody post that hilarious walking skeleton from LMS again?

Reverse kinematics is hilarious too, I suppose.

Dr Hill also said:

"All I can say is that if this was a masquerade, it was extremely well done and effective."

He wrote a few years before the knee action was noticed. In Russia the comparison was made to the Charleston.

The Russian biomechanics experts and Grieve (depending on film speed) said it could not be a human gait. Napier made an error, which I'll have to look up. I think it had to do with the way the stride was measured.

Should we not look at any opinions after 1971?

 

[LAL]

I think reading the posts is enough to give us a qualitative idea. Its good enough to allow us to inferr that people with a reasonalby good level of knoweledge in science (and scientific methodology) are outnumbered by those who also believe in other fringe subjects. Its good enough for me to suppose that probably they are also outnumbered by those who trust more in the words of the Bible than in the words of science.


I'm not interested in puddling or McCain. I don't think luck is a factor. There is compelling evidence pointing towards the profile I am sketching. This is the actula factor.

First off, you are not privy to posts in Members Only areas. Your sample is skewed. You can probably find thousands more posts from creationists (from all over the world) on YouTube than you will on BF boards. Does this mean most people who frequent YouTube (where you can find all the episodes from PBS' series "Evolution"), are Biblical literalists?

I think you need to conduct some surveys before coming to any conclusions.

Your attempts to portray all in the field as somehow impaired is pretty transparent. The YECer I referred to claims sightings. They have nothing to do with his hellfire and damnation beliefs. He's in a part of the country that has a history and some possible physical evidence. I don't know if his claims are true or not, but there's an attempt going on to find out.

I find the term "'footer" demeaning and offensive. I don't even like the term "bigfoot". "Sasquatch" works for me and I think "proponent' is a better term for those who think there's enough evidence already to warrant further investigation.

 

[LAL]

Can you post a gif of Patty McLumpy's rotating knees?

Nope. I have work to do and this is getting to be a waste of time already.

If you'll try to behave I might PM you about the person you mentioned, on condition you don't post it all over the message board.

 

[SweatyYeti]

Posted by kitakaze

1) According to me?
Do me a favour and pull up the post where I said that, since it was, you know, 'according to me'.

Maybe I misunderstood the point of this statement of yours, kitty.....

3) Sweaty then takes a large sized close-up, high quality commercial image of the Horrordome suit and compares it to a small, low quality blown up image from the PGF taken from a distance saying that back of the leg suffers from a complete lack of an ambiguous quality he refers to as 'body contour'.

Can you elaborate on exactly what your point was?

Since you mentioned the differences in 'size and quality' of the images in my comparison.....what are you saying is the significance of those differences, as they would relate to the validity of the comparison?

2) Request # (I've lost count): How many times do you need to be asked to define 'body contour'? Is there something about the question that you find difficult?

Why does "body contour" need defining?? Don't you understand what that phrase means?

Do you see any distinct contour on the back of Patty's legs?

 

[SweatyYeti]

LAL wrote.....and I quote:

Hey, Sweaty, how old is the earth?

Oh, I'd say.....about 4.5 billion years old....give or take a millenium, or two.

 

[LTC8K6]

Should we not look at any opinions after 1971?

I prefer the opinions of experts who saw the original film.

The fact is, Patty walks like a man, as opined early on by experts, and demonstrated many times by amateurs.

Patty does not, in any way, shape, or form, walk as shown in the LMS skeleton animation.

 

[William Parcher]

Could somebody post that hilarious walking skeleton from LMS again?

Even more hilarious as a Jethro Tull "Beastie" music video. LOL!!!!1