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Obama - basically Hitler.

How so? If the majority of Europeans and Americans agree that the current US-President sucks, why is this in any possible way gibberish. [Unless, of course, you're employed by the current Administration yourself]
You might be able to draw that conclusion, but not by comparing the two polls you were trying to compare.
However, there is no way to compare a liberal [centering] Obama to Hitler. Hitler was a Conservative!

What's so hard for you and the like of O'Reilly to understand such a simple, historical fact??? :confused:
Maybe it's a language barrier or something. Can someone help me out here? Anyone here speak German and English equally well?
 
Maybe it's a language barrier or something. Can someone help me out here? Anyone here speak German and English equally well?
I can't help with Oliver, I don't speak stupid.

(at some point it has to occur to him that maybe O'Reilly wasn't the guy in the OP. I guess O'Reilly is the name of the one conservative pundit he knows or something).
 
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Hitler was a Conservative!
No. No more than Stalin was a liberal which is what I was raised to believe.

Depends of course on your definition of "conservative". I can't think of any definition that would make Hitler a Conservative.

You'll have to help us out here. How are you defining "conservative"? Are you thinking Nationalist? Conservatives are often patriots and many ideologues like to conflate conservatism with nationalism but it really is a stretch.
 
You'll have to help us out here. How are you defining "conservative"? Are you thinking Nationalist? Conservatives are often patriots and many ideologues like to conflate conservatism with nationalism but it really is a stretch.

He's probably not thinking at all.
 
No. No more than Stalin was a liberal which is what I was raised to believe.

Depends of course on your definition of "conservative". I can't think of any definition that would make Hitler a Conservative.

You'll have to help us out here. How are you defining "conservative"? Are you thinking Nationalist? Conservatives are often patriots and many ideologues like to conflate conservatism with nationalism but it really is a stretch.
You are right that it the definition is very important. And of course, the lines are drawn much differently in different places. Of course, in such matters, it is often wise to first reference Ambrose Bierce's Devil's Dictionary.

"CONSERVATIVE, n.
A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others. "
But this doesn't really tell us much about Hitler, since he wasn't so much replacing evils as expanding them.


So to compare him to current-day liberals and conservatives, we might examine the issues that separate what Americans call them.
  • Conservatives favor a strong military, capable of advancing our interests worldwide whereas liberals favor a weaker military, mostly for defensive purposes. Indeed, warlike behavior or "hawkinsness" is definitely considered conservative.
Hitler is definitely conservative on this issue.
  • Conservatives tend to be more nationalistic than liberals, as RandFan mentions.
Hitler would surely fall into the category of conservative here.
  • Liberals favor more taxes and government programs while conservatives favor less and fewer.
Hard to say. It seems that Hitler had a lot of social programs and certainly he would have expected "good Germans" to support the Fatherland, maybe even to the point of some form of socialism. Score one for Hitler the Liberal.
  • Conservatives generally advocate the use of the death penalty against enemies of the state, while liberals generally favor non-lethal punishment
I think we can safely say Hitler held a position that would more closely be allied with US conservatives on this issue.

  • Liberals favor more lax immigration laws and ways for illegal immigrants to attain citizenship. Conservatives favor keeping all illegal immigrants out of the country, forcefully if necessary.
Another tough call. Obviously Hitler didn't want non-Aryans coming into the country, but may have been thrilled to see Aryans from neighboring countries like Austria cross the borders freely. The situation is so different, you can't really say. Call it a push.
  • Liberals favor restricting gun ownership. Conservatives favor private ownership of guns.
Certainly Hitler was a fan of guns, but he was no fan of private ownership. He only wanted his guys to have guns. On this, you'd have to call him a liberal.
  • Liberals want to protect the environment even at the expense of business. Conservative want to protect business even at the expense of the environment.
Again, hard to tell, but bombing and burning can't really be said to be environmental pluses. Still, he probably wanted to preserve the beauty of the Fatherland. Put him down as a weak conservative.

  • Liberals often tend to be artist types and favor government sponsored art. Conservatives may like art, but feel that it should not be subsidized.
Hitler was an artist, so it is likely he would want to see more art and would probably have had his government, had it succeeded, make lots of artworks celebrating him. I'm calling "liberal".

  • Traditionally, liberals are seen to be quicker to embrace racial and sexual equality than are conservatives.
This one's easy. Way conservative.

  • Both liberals and conservatives use religion to advance their goals, but in the current US environment there is a strong correlation between those who self-identify as "strongly religious" and those who self-identify as "conservative".
Hitler certainly was capable of citing religion as supporting his beliefs. Whether or not he was deeply religious in a traditional sense is a matter for debate. But because he is often quoted to claim the church is on his side, I'm calling "conservative". You may disagree.

****
So by my score, Hitler would have fit in more with US conservatives than US liberals by a score of 6 to 3. Not what you'd call a "strong conservative" but definitely right of the middle.
 
So by my score, Hitler would have fit in more with US conservatives than US liberals by a score of 6 to 3. Not what you'd call a "strong conservative" but definitely right of the middle.

Of course he scored 11/10 on farking insane murderous nutjob, so the issue is probably as moot as moot could be.
 
I'm worried about Obama (meaning worried about what would happen if he got in), the guy is going on and on about change, yet he rarely talks about what he wants to change. He has a lot of conservatives in his back-pocket, which makes me think he has a Republican bent, and his statement about how poor people clinging to their guns and religion, and are xenophobic and anti-immigration and globalization strike me as lacking some insight (the religion part is true, however the anti-globalization issue isn't just out of "bitterness" -- it directly affects these people, their jobs are outsourced to other countries!) and being textbook elitist.

When I say elitist, I mean a person who is very upper class, only sympathize with the upper class like them, and care about absolutely nobody else. This is in otherwords very similar to a Republican candidate... like George W. Bush and Dick Cheney for example.

My opinion is if this guy got in, he would reveal his true colors as a right-wing war-hawk (he does have a lot of ties to the Israeli lobby and has promised them support -- this information should be factored in when combined with the other data about him) elitist (and would continue to wage war in the middle-east, except he would rather than keep the guys in Iraq, would simply fling them at Iran and who knows what else, and if the war drags on and troop numbers dwindle -- draft time) but it would be too late to do anything about it -- And his own party which holds a majority is NOT going to impeach him (they don't even have the guts to impeach a guy of the opposite party who's done everything in his power to gut the constitution).

He will be probably as bad, if not at least as bad as John McCain, but will have the added luxury of his position and attitude being totally unexpected, and being of the same political party as the party that holds a majority in Congress making him effectively impeachment proof.


INRM
 
If mass rallies was the only thing the nazis did, then they would've only been creepy and eccentric but completely harmless.

Ask any old jew or pole and they won't say that Hitler was bad because he had mass rallies all over their places.
 
No. No more than Stalin was a liberal which is what I was raised to believe.

Depends of course on your definition of "conservative". I can't think of any definition that would make Hitler a Conservative.

You'll have to help us out here. How are you defining "conservative"? Are you thinking Nationalist? Conservatives are often patriots and many ideologues like to conflate conservatism with nationalism but it really is a stretch.


What Tricky said ... :p
 
I might add ...

Conservatives favor a strong military, capable of advancing our interests worldwide whereas liberals favor a weaker military, mostly for defensive purposes. Indeed, warlike behavior or "hawkinsness" is definitely considered conservative.Hitler is definitely conservative on this issue.


Yep

Conservatives tend to be more nationalistic than liberals, as RandFan mentions.Hitler would surely fall into the category of conservative here.


Yep

Liberals favor more taxes and government programs while conservatives favor less and fewer.Hard to say. It seems that Hitler had a lot of social programs and certainly he would have expected "good Germans" to support the Fatherland, maybe even to the point of some form of socialism. Score one for Hitler the Liberal.


While Hitler was loved for his support for "the common man" - including tax-related issues to make him as popular as he was, he also favored the expansion of the Governments influence - to "get things done". That was quite appealing during the Nazi-Regime - like it was during the conservative banner of "getting things done" in recent Republican years.

Conservatives generally advocate the use of the death penalty against enemies of the state, while liberals generally favor non-lethal punishmentI think we can safely say Hitler held a position that would more closely be allied with US conservatives on this issue.


Yep

Liberals favor more lax immigration laws and ways for illegal immigrants to attain citizenship. Conservatives favor keeping all illegal immigrants out of the country, forcefully if necessary.Another tough call. Obviously Hitler didn't want non-Aryans coming into the country, but may have been thrilled to see Aryans from neighboring countries like Austria cross the borders freely. The situation is so different, you can't really say. Call it a push.


Hitler accepted all like-minded. But he damned everyone else. I think it's a quite conservative stance after all.

Liberals favor restricting gun ownership. Conservatives favor private ownership of guns.Certainly Hitler was a fan of guns, but he was no fan of private ownership. He only wanted his guys to have guns. On this, you'd have to call him a liberal.


Not so fast, young Man... :p Who would prefer to have the same rights that I also prefer: A liberal saying everyone should have the same right - or a conservative claiming that every like-minded should have the same right?

Liberals want to protect the environment even at the expense of business. Conservative want to protect business even at the expense of the environment.Again, hard to tell, but bombing and burning can't really be said to be environmental pluses. Still, he probably wanted to preserve the beauty of the Fatherland. Put him down as a weak conservative.


I don't know any instance of Hitler caring about the Environment. Cleary conservative, I highly assume...

Liberals often tend to be artist types and favor government sponsored art. Conservatives may like art, but feel that it should not be subsidized.Hitler was an artist, so it is likely he would want to see more art and would probably have had his government, had it succeeded, make lots of artworks celebrating him. I'm calling "liberal".


Yes, Hitler was an artist - as surprising this fact may be. But after getting political, there wasn't much left of this characteristics. So it would be a failure to assume that his artistic side survived his conservative career.

Traditionally, liberals are seen to be quicker to embrace racial and sexual equality than are conservatives.This one's easy. Way conservative.


Sadly enough.

Both liberals and conservatives use religion to advance their goals, but in the current US environment there is a strong correlation between those who self-identify as "strongly religious" and those who self-identify as "conservative".Hitler certainly was capable of citing religion as supporting his beliefs. Whether or not he was deeply religious in a traditional sense is a matter for debate. But because he is often quoted to claim the church is on his side, I'm calling "conservative". You may disagree.


Nope. Quite factual - including Bush&Friends doing the same.
 
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Oliver, you're turning a thread about a Godwin into a Godwin against conservatives. You're failing by default.
 
*pinch*

No. It stayed the same. My poor poor irony meter...
*twitch*

*twitch*

No... I'll stop myself...


We all appreciate your final discernment. Everything else would just point out why you failed to refuse the historical fact of Obama being a centered liberal - and Hitler being a "right-wing-republican"-conservative... [According to current definitions]
 
We all appreciate your final discernment. Everything else would just point out why you failed to refuse the historical fact of Obama being a centered liberal - and Hitler being a "right-wing-republican"-conservative... [According to current definitions]

AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Someone tell me this is a language barrier.

:bwall
 
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You are right that it the definition is very important. And of course, the lines are drawn much differently in different places. Of course, in such matters, it is often wise to first reference Ambrose Bierce's Devil's Dictionary.

Conservatives generally advocate the use of the death penalty against enemies of the state, while liberals generally favor non-lethal punishment
I think we can safely say Hitler held a position that would more closely be allied with US conservatives on this issue.


Yep you can't walk down the street without bumping into the body of a liberal politician hanging from a lamp post.
 

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