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"I am God" approach, version 1.0

Kuko 4000

Graduate Poster
Kuko 4000
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
1,586
Ok, I don't know if this is something old, but this approach / variation came to my mind recently and I hope you guys could test me a bit and help to spot any obvious holes and problems there might be. I haven't given it that much thought yet, but it seems a pretty solid way to illustrate a point. I like talking to people about their beliefs. Here in Finland it's mostly christians, and this approach is aimed at them.

It goes like this:

"I am God."

There.

I am an atheist, and I hope some of you guys try to act as christians and do your best to prove / show me wrong. Use what ever means you can think of in a face to face conversation. I'm being purposefully vague at the moment, but I'm hoping to get to the main point as the conversation flows. So, when you have time, try to come up with something as a christian and prove me wrong. Any help appreciated.
 
Yeah, the basic problem is that you are trying to use logic to argue religious belief. Which is dumb on your part.
 
I don't think so, that's why I'm calling this a variation. I have a lot of experience talking with the religious, just wanted to test this one here to see if there's any obvious holes or problems I'm missing, this is supposed to illustrate the point in a different way. It has to open the religious eyes in a different way to get through, simple tell-it-like-it-is logic hasn't proven that successful, at least to me. It has to touch them on a personal level.

You can do anything to prove me wrong. What would you do, as a christian?

Ask me to read your mind? Walk on the water? Shoot me?
 
Kuko 4000 said:
Ask me to read your mind? Walk on the water? Shoot me?
Click to expand...

A Christian might well do all of the above, but their god is notorious for not performing on demand has a record of being killed as well.

So, none of it would help their argument much.

Of course, the main point is not whether you can prove that claim, but if they can disprove it, right? (At least, that's how these arguments tend to look like to me.)

And nothing you did or failed or do would make a difference here. I assume the bush in the desert did eventually stop burning, e.g. Doesn't mean it never was or never represented god. So even if they killed you, they would have just made a bit of a mess with a mortal shell.
 
Thanks Rasmus.

This is closing on my point, in brief:

When claiming to be god, I would always ask the believer to require from me, exactly the same amount of evidence that he requires from his own god.

If he would ask me to read his mind, I would say:

"Sure, but first ask your god what my friend here is thinking."

Etc, etc.

Has anyone here had a conversation along these lines? What happened?

I think this approach illustrates the point better.

What problems (specific questions, something else?) could I face when starting a conversation like this?
 
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"I am God."

Wouldn't work in some parts of the USA. Folks would think you are a serious New Ager not a smartass atheist. We're all God, see?
 
Abdul Alhazred said:
"I am God."

Wouldn't work in some parts of the USA. Folks would think you are a serious New Ager not a smartass atheist. We're all God, see?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think I know too well, my mother's been a serious New Ager for years now, turned into one when she was closing to 50. Business as usual. Gives me good insight to that world whenever I visit their place though.

:eye-poppi
 
Gagglegnash said:
Hi

Well - one of the accepted bits of God's nature is that a human being can't see his face and survive (Exodus 33:18-23), so actually, a face-to-face conversation of just about any duration does the trick.

Now, if we're talking about a face-to-buttocks conversation (Exodus 33:23), you might be on to something.
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:D

Thanks, I didn't know / remember that!

I think it's pretty easy to avoid though, I just tell them that I'm obviously adopting a human face (and body) for the time being :covereyes and anyways, I'm omnipotent.
 
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Jesus (supposedly) said something along these lines:

"what I have done, anyone can do"
 
Hi

Kuko 4000 said:
:D

Thanks, I didn't know / remember that!

I think it's pretty easy to avoid though, I just tell them that I'm obviously adopting a human face (and body) for the time being :covereyes and anyways, I'm omnipotent.
Click to expand...


Thing is: If you don't follow the God Rules, then you aren't God, right?

While He can play pretty foot-loose and fancy-free with the rules of physics and probability, He doesn't break the rules He sets for Himself. That would make Him untrue to his word or capricious, and since being faithful to his word and being constant are two more of the bits of God-nature, you're stuck.

Turn around and put a paper bag over your head to keep them alive. I don't think you actually need to drop your pants, but that would probably help to focus their attention.

For what it's worth: the ease with which a person can say "I am God," and the logical morass that it can lead to trying to prove or disprove it was probably the reason that doing that was a stoning offense. If you were human, you'd die. If you WERE God, the stones would bow down before you, so you'd be safe.

...one of those, "Ipso Facto," kinds of things.

(Oh - and - make sure your audience isn't carrying any stones, too, just to be safe.)
 
Gagglegnash said:
Hi
Thing is: If you don't follow the God Rules, then you aren't God, right?

While He can play pretty foot-loose and fancy-free with the rules of physics and probability, He doesn't break the rules He sets for Himself. That would make Him untrue to his word or capricious, and since being faithful to his word and being constant are two more of the bits of God-nature, you're stuck.

Turn around and put a paper bag over your head to keep them alive. I don't think you actually need to drop your pants, but that would probably help to focus their attention.
Click to expand...


On a bit more serious note, I don't think I even need to resort to paper bags here.

This is what it says:

The Holy Book said:
18And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.

19And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.

20And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
21And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:

22And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:

23And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.
Click to expand...


So if someone knows the bible enough (knowledge of the bible among normal christians would actually surprise me) to use that on me, all I have to say is:

"What do you mean? This part is to be taken literally.

I do have a real face, but of course this is not it."

And,

I could always use another way out of it by using this quote from the same place:

"and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy."

I don't see a problem there, btw. isn't God known to take different forms?
 
Just found this story on YouTube which is a nice variation of what I had in mind, it's well worth a listen imo:

 
Kuko 4000 said:
Ok, I don't know if this is something old, but this approach / variation came to my mind recently and I hope you guys could test me a bit and help to spot any obvious holes and problems there might be. I haven't given it that much thought yet, but it seems a pretty solid way to illustrate a point. I like talking to people about their beliefs. Here in Finland it's mostly christians, and this approach is aimed at them.

It goes like this:

"I am God."

There.

I am an atheist, and I hope some of you guys try to act as christians and do your best to prove / show me wrong. Use what ever means you can think of in a face to face conversation. I'm being purposefully vague at the moment, but I'm hoping to get to the main point as the conversation flows. So, when you have time, try to come up with something as a christian and prove me wrong. Any help appreciated.
Click to expand...

You: I am God.
Xtian: No you're not.

End of conversation?
 
Kuko 4000 said:
Nope.
Click to expand...

But you're making a flat statement, so why can't they?

If you do get into this conversation though, remember the scripture that says "Do not be putting your god to the test, for he is not one to be mocked" or something like that. That's a genius get out clause for you!
 
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