"Oxygen-starved" fire? Explain the jumpers.

[WildCat]

Wasn’t he still alive when the building started to collapse supposedly from the heat compromised steel?

Was he in the collapse initiation area genius?

Hear any bombs in that call?

 

[chillzero]

I'm moving some posts out of this thread. I asked earlier for people to try and discuss this in a calm manner. I'm sorry to see that some people are unable to respond in a non-inflammatory manner, but I am unable to remove what is on topic, no matter how disgustingly worded. I may set this thread to moderated status if this approach to baiting emotional responses from members continues.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: chillzero

 

[beachnut]

... The portion of building above the impact zone was blowing apart and leaving very little mass to push down on the remainder of the building. ...

Are you using p4t anti-Physics? That amount of mass disappearing would vaporize all of North American? The MASS is still there, that is why the WTC fell, the MASS is still there. When you figure out how to make the MASS go away, you will be famous! Do a paper, get the Prize. There is a moving about the Prize you will get.

Very good work, but you need to use real physics next time.

 

[ktesibios]

It’s funny you should mention Cosgrove. Wasn’t he still alive when the building started to collapse supposedly from the heat compromised steel? How did his body withstand temperatures needed to weaken steel enough that he was still able to scream his last words into a phone? Maybe he was covered in all that spray on fire proofing that fell off the trusses huh?

Are all the spaces within a building necessarily at the same temperature? The world's HVAC engineers will surely be set back on their heels by this startling revelation.

Regarding Poor Kevin Cosgrove's last phone call- I listened to it once a long time ago when it was linked in a thread here.

Now, in my previous job one of my specialties was doing audio enhancments for the legal profession. As a result, I listened to some really harrowing *****- 911 tapes where a dangling handset had captured the last moments of shooting and stabbing victims, a recording of the radio communications of freight train crews where my brief was "decipher the last order the conductor gave before the train took his leg off"- you get the picture. But even having worked on those, filtering out noise and measuring time intervals just as cooly as you please, I will never listen to the Cosgrove recording again. It's more than I can stand.

Thank you for conclusively proving your indescribably vile callousness.
<plonk>

 

[Turbofan]

Are you using p4t anti-Physics? That amount of mass disappearing would vaporize all of North American? The MASS is still there, that is why the WTC fell, the MASS is still there. When you figure out how to make the MASS go away, you will be famous! Do a paper, get the Prize. There is a moving about the Prize you will get.

Very good work, but you need to use real physics next time.

The mass was being blown out laterally, remember? It is no longer above
the remaining tower structure.

You mean, you can't see the top section disappearing with all that dust
blowing away?

From this:
http://www.procision-auto.com/Tino/wtc_stop1.jpg

to this:
http://www.procision-auto.com/Tino/wtc_stop6.jpg


without the bottom section descending.

Amazing!

 

[robeeb]

Truthers,

Here is a reality check for you. Forget your conspiracy theories for a moment. Imagine that you have just gotten up to start a new work day. You go to work, have some coffee, talk to a few friends, the usual beginning of the day sort of things. Now, imagine that before your work day is over, you are going to die. As if that isn't bad enough, you are also going to be forced into making a decision as to how you will die. Your choices are suffocation, burning to death, or jumping from nearly 1/4 of a mile above the earth to the street below. Does that sound like Hell on Earth to you? It certainly does to me. It's a nightmare scenario that hundreds of PEOPLE had to face that day. I would ask you to think about those people, and what they went through, everytime you decide to use them as a cheap prop in an attempt to further your so-called "theories".

 

[Profanz]

Are all the spaces within a building necessarily at the same temperature?

All the spaces? Was it a raging inferno able to weaken enough steel to collape an entire 110 story building in less then an hour or not? How do people not burn up in place hot enough to compromise steel? So was this only pockets of fire? Because it looked to me like the building failed all the way around.

 

[Profanz]

Truthers,

Here is a reality check for you. Forget your conspiracy theories for a moment. Imagine that you have just gotten up to start a new work day. You go to work, have some coffee, talk to a few friends, the usual beginning of the day sort of things. Now, imagine that before your work day is over, you are going to die. As if that isn't bad enough, you are also going to be forced into making a decision as to how you will die. Your choices are suffocation, burning to death, or jumping from nearly 1/4 of a mile above the earth to the street below. Does that sound like Hell on Earth to you? It certainly does to me. It's a nightmare scenario that hundreds of PEOPLE had to face that day. I would ask you to think about those people, and what they went through, everytime you decide to use them as a cheap prop in an attempt to further your so-called "theories".

Oh please. Save it. Like you care. You just used those people because you had nothing else. Good job.

Stop this inflammatory posting, and keep it civil or you will face further moderator action. (I don't want to have to remove any responses to this either, please.)

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: chillzero

 

[~enigma~]

All the spaces? Was it a raging inferno able to weaken enough steel to collape an entire 110 story building in less then an hour or not? How do people not burn up in place hot enough to compromise steel? So was this only pockets of fire? Because it looked to me like the building failed all the way around.

Be the first person in history that can answer this...

After the first 0.5 seconds of slippage IN THE AREA OF IMPACT explain what power could have prevented collapse. Also explain why a 15 story chunk of office building would not and could not have caused an overload of the remaining heat weakened columns IN THE AREA OF IMPACT?

 

[WildCat]

How do people not burn up in place hot enough to compromise steel?

They did, as anyone who isn't completely clueless would know.

The people who jumped did so only after they were literally backed up against the wall by the spreading smoke and flames.

 

[ElMondoHummus]

All the spaces? Was it a raging inferno able to weaken enough steel to collape an entire 110 story building in less then an hour or not? How do people not burn up in place hot enough to compromise steel? So was this only pockets of fire? Because it looked to me like the building failed all the way around.

Some steel columns were severed by the impact of the jet. Others were failing due to heat from the fires. The ones that were left over were taking increasing loads that were transferring over when other columns failed in the fires. This happened until the remaining columns were stressed to their breaking point. NCSTAR 1-6D reports what columns faced what amounts of stress. The point is that no, the fire did not have to be uniform across the entirety of any given floor to explain what happened. The remaining columns that were not directly affected by the fire were still affected by the load that was transferring to them.

And yes, the building did indeed fail all the way around. But fire did not cause the failures below the collapse initiation point; the thing that caused those failures was the impact of the upper section of the towers on each of those lower floors.

 

[WildCat]

The mass was being blown out laterally, remember? It is no longer above
the remaining tower structure.

Oh, I'm dying to hear how all the debris fell away from the building.

This is such a stupid statement as to make me think you're just a troll who doesn't believe in this nonsense after all.

 

[robeeb]

Profanz,


I challenge you to find any place in this thread where I am attempting to "prove" something. Since I have absolutely no interest in proving anything in this thread, to say I am "using" anyone to prove something is quite untrue. As far as whether I "care", or not is irrrelevant given the fact that you don't know me, and know nothing of whom I do or do not care about. You need to stop the personal attacks.

 

[beachnut]

The mass was being blown out laterally, remember? It is no longer above the remaining tower structure. ...

Why are truth movement people anti-intellectual? Why not take engineering or learn to use sound judgment based on knowledge? You are have made an art of using hearsay and lies, trying to make points and failing.

The majority of the mass is not ejected. You have failed again. Relax, you have no degree in engineering and 0.00087 of the world engineers agree withy our fantasy ideas. You are as smart as 0.00087 percent of all world engineers; a massive feat when you consider your total lack of knowledge on structures, fire, FDRs, 9/11, flying, firefighting, physics, math, kinetic energy, engineering, and logic.

Got physics, no, you make fun of it by botching every single fact on 9/11. You must have blocked all rational web sites on your computer. BTW, the nut case idea web sites on 9/11 are the top hits for 9/11 issues, you must dig deeper to find the intellectual web sites on 9/11. That is where judgment comes in, something you are not using, along with knowledge.

I doubt you understand the towers were 95 percent air. The energy released in collapse was over 100 1000 pound bombs in kinetic energy from each tower. No explosives were used, they would have left evidence, no thermite was used, it leaves big piles of iron. Good luck, great post, you are as smart as 0.00087 percent of all world engineers on this topic, a great goal considering how you are not using any evidence or knowledge to support your ideas!

I look forward to the next missing mass post.

Question! Based on your extensive research, how much weight can one floor in the WTC hold without failing? Please try to answer one question so I can learn more about 9/11, maybe I am wrong and stubborn.

how much weight can one floor in the WTC hold without failing?

how much weight can one floor in the WTC hold without failing?

incase you missed it. Thank you for your learned answer in advance.

how much weight can one floor in the WTC hold without failing?

 

[applecorped]

How hot and smoky does it have to be for a person to jump? 1000 degrees?
500 degrees? 100 degrees?

Do you think you could take about 15 minutes of black thick smoke and
200 degrees F?

Is that enough to melt steel?

I guess you all forget about the people standing in the openings, and poking
out the windows in the upper floors too. It must have been real hot above
the crash area to lean on steel, and hang out of windows flagging for help.

If it was really +600'F up there, do you think they'd be able to survive and
wave?

What do you say, can I stick you in a room full of black smoke and ummm...
200 degrees F for 15 minutes.

Do you think you could breathe, or take the heat?

This is one of the more repugnant replies ever posted.

 

[Bobert]

Weren't there idiot truthers who at one point speculated that the NWO Men In Black were pushing those poor people out of the buildings?

 

[applecorped]

This is Twilight Zone material. How truly sad.

 

[leftysergeant]

Most people who are worried about not being able to breath will stop worrying when they reach a point where they can breath. Edna Cintron could breath where she was. The air was entering the building from that point. Based on the smoke inhalation explanation for the jumpers, she had no reason to jump. That leaves only the heat. End of that discussion, at least in the minds of rational observers.

That there were still fires burning is evident in the bursts of flame that erupted sporadicly from the corner of the south tower just prior to its failure.

Bear in mind that the impact of the aircraft in both towers opened up stairwells and elevator shafts to act as chmineys. This directed a great deal of heat to the core columns, which were, by that time, largely stripped of insulation.

It does not take a lot of heat to cause steel to expand by far more than the joints were designed to withstand. A friend of mine, as a young resistance fighter, destroyed a sction of railroad tracks with a handful of coins by preventing their expanding smoothly in the hot sun. This is not a novel concept.

As for the mass disappearing over the sides of the buildings, we see mostly dust and perimeter columns, not floor slabs or chuncks of concrete. Concrete chunks would have falled faster than the dust, entraining streamers of dust behind them. Didn't happen.

You need to watch some actual explosives being set off some time.

 

[Profanz]

Most people who are worried about not being able to breath will stop worrying when they reach a point where they can breath. Edna Cintron could breath where she was. The air was entering the building from that point. Based on the smoke inhalation explanation for the jumpers, she had no reason to jump. That leaves only the heat. End of that discussion, at least in the minds of rational observers.

That there were still fires burning is evident in the bursts of flame that erupted sporadicly from the corner of the south tower just prior to its failure.

Bear in mind that the impact of the aircraft in both towers opened up stairwells and elevator shafts to act as chmineys. This directed a great deal of heat to the core columns, which were, by that time, largely stripped of insulation.

It does not take a lot of heat to cause steel to expand by far more than the joints were designed to withstand. A friend of mine, as a young resistance fighter, destroyed a sction of railroad tracks with a handful of coins by preventing their expanding smoothly in the hot sun. This is not a novel concept.

As for the mass disappearing over the sides of the buildings, we see mostly dust and perimeter columns, not floor slabs or chuncks of concrete. Concrete chunks would have falled faster than the dust, entraining streamers of dust behind them. Didn't happen.

You need to watch some actual explosives being set off some time.

This whole thread and line of argument is nonsense. Even if poor Edna or Kevin or anyone else was suffering from heat that caused them to jump or think about jumping doesn't mean it was hot enough to compromise steel. Is this the proof being offered up here that fire was hot enough to weaken the trusses that were still strong enough to pull in on the columns causing global collapse? Is this debunking? Does this validate the official theory?

 

[~enigma~]

This whole thread and line of argument is nonsense. Even if poor Edna or Kevin or anyone else was suffering from heat that caused them to jump or think about jumping doesn't mean it was hot enough to compromise steel. Is this the proof being offered up here that fire was hot enough to weaken the trusses that were still strong enough to pull in on the columns causing global collapse? Is this debunking? Does this validate the official theory?

Be the first person in history that can answer this...

After the first 0.5 seconds of slippage IN THE AREA OF IMPACT explain what power could have prevented collapse. Also explain why a 15 story chunk of office building would not and could not have caused an overload of the remaining heat weakened columns IN THE AREA OF IMPACT?