AA77 FDR Data, Explained

[A W Smith]

actually that image may have been posted many pages ago on this very thread iirc



mmmm maybe not. i cant find it in this thread

 

[Turbofan]

While you're running like a schoolgirl from a simple yes/no question, I'll remind everyone of the last question you ran from:

This question has been answered many times, but you fail to read the
posts.

The FDR analysts for PFT are listed/linked within this thread, and you may also visit their forum.

By the way, for the 6th, or 7th time, who are th FDR experts here?

As I recall Anti-sophist posted this thread without even knowing the
function, or basic data transfer timing...now I've proved his theory
incorrect and most of you are crying the same tune.

Get your FDR experts out here so I can talk to them. Better yet, have
them discuss these so called 'errors' with PFT.

 

[Turbofan]

p4t and Turbofan are stuck with really bad physics posted on a web site of false information and lies when people like Turbofan take the implied information manufactured by p4t and make conclusions.

Awww, don't be sad because I proved you wrong with ARINC documentation.

I don't take "implied" info and make conclusion. I simply took the original
post of this thread , along with the theory and showed you all why it can't
happen.

Will Turbofan understanding FDRs with precision, lead him to understand FDRs can be missing data for unknown reasons? He completely ignores the accidents missing data. Yet stands by his p4t group of physics challenged, false information experts. Did John Lear’s Alien’s visit Turbofan and turn him into a p4t cult member, complete with t-shirt and complete DVD collection.

It's funny that you just spew out the insults, but you bring nothing to the
technical debate.

Show me your calculations for g data.

Show me your corrections.

Show me the reasons for missing data

BTW, there's more than enough info in the tab and raw files to prove
AA77 didn't hit the Pentagon. That's what you simply cannot come to terms
with.

Check out the info, and explain how it's possible for AA77 to hit the
light poles, and/or the Pentagon.

SHOW ME your understanding of the NTSB data provided. Reference the
cells and the data. Make me a believer.

 

[Turbofan]

I haven't been to pft in a year or so since Rob bans people once they question his delusions.

But, who do you think "TurboFan" is over there? I'm not looking for his real name but his posting name.

Anyway, I'm also tired of the same moonbat CT's which get debated OVER and OVER again. I think I'm moving on to more productive boards like football...LOL.

My real name isn't Tino, but it's a short form of my real name.

I'm from Ontario, Canada. I'm not Rob Balsamo.

Tuning and building engines is my hobby, it's not my field of study.

There's nothing like tearing down a race track and putting stubborn GL
theories to rest in my spare time.

As for -crickets-, dude...I just watched 4 hours of UFC and watch
Anderson Silva walk through James Irving. Sorry if my response time
is not to your satisfaction. Just know that I'll never run from you

 

[Dog Town]

Get your FDR experts out here so I can talk to them. Better yet, have
them discuss these so called 'errors' with PFT.

Let me get this straight, Einstein! You want to argue about an FDR that you think is fake, about the accuracy? Is that about it?


Priceless,

 

[Turbofan]

Let me get this straight, Einstein! You want to argue about an FDR that you think is fake, about the accuracy? Is that about it?

Actually, I want to argue about and FDR that you think is real.

What makes this site and their members so much more credible if they
can't post up a name, or go head to head with real pilots?

All is see here are theories posted up by faceless internet tough guys.

 

[Dog Town]

Actually, I want to argue about and FDR that you think is real.

What makes this site and their members so much more credible if they
can't post up a name, or go head to head with real pilots?

All is see here are theories posted up by faceless internet tough guys.

Sadly for you, and any intelligent person reading this. FACTS are FACTS!
Thanks for playing, you fail.
Next...

 

[A W Smith]

By the way, for the 6th, or 7th time, who are th FDR experts here?

As I recall Anti-sophist posted this thread without even knowing the
function, or basic data transfer timing...now I've proved his theory
incorrect and most of you are crying the same tune.

Get your FDR experts out here so I can talk to them. Better yet, have
them discuss these so called 'errors' with PFT.

Did you even read the first post in this thread?

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1999949&postcount=1

 

[WildCat]

The FDR analysts for PFT are listed/linked within this thread, and you may also visit their forum.

I didn't ask if you had FDR "analysts". I asked you if PfffT has any FDR experts. You continue to run from this question! Do you have any actual FDR experts supporting you, yes or no? If yes, please describe their professional FDR work experience.

By the way, for the 6th, or 7th time, who are th FDR experts here?

No one here even claims to be an FDR expert. The suspicion, however, is there are people here who, although they don't call themselves FDR experts, appear to be vastly more competent than the FDR "analysts" at PffffT.

Now, do you have any FDR experts, yes or no?

Get your FDR experts out here so I can talk to them. Better yet, have them discuss these so called 'errors' with PFT.

PfffT won't allow anyone to debate them over there, they ban on sight anyone who will. Wonder why that is Turbofan?

And once again, does the PffffT have any actual FDR experts? Of course, I know you will refuse to answer, or give the same old crap about how you have FDR "analysts". I presume that's a title the PffffT made up to attempt to hide the fact that they have no FDR experts.

And the other question you cowardly run away from: You say the PfffT have contacted the FBI and got no support. Do you think the FBI is in on the conspiracy? The NTSB? American Airlines? The pilots union? The air traffic controllers on duty that day? The New York Times? How many of these groups are in on it Turbofan? You're a big boy, have the courage to make your accusations known! Or are you in fact a frightened schoolgirl?

 

[WildCat]

Just know that I'll never run from you

Yes you will! You will run from the questions my above post, because that's the kind of guy you are.

 

[Turbofan]

I didn't ask if you had FDR "analysts". I asked you if PfffT has any FDR experts. You continue to run from this question! Do you have any actual FDR experts supporting you, yes or no? If yes, please describe their professional FDR work experience.

Run? Follow the links, and you will see who our experts are.

No one here even claims to be an FDR expert. The suspicion, however, is there are people here who, although they don't call themselves FDR experts, appear to be vastly more competent than the FDR "analysts" at PffffT.

That's BS. Nobody in this thread that's for sure. If you have anyone that
is competent at explaining the FDR, bring them out here so I can debate them.

Now, do you have any FDR experts, yes or no?

Our experts have found errors with the NTSB data, therefore they must
be equal to, or better than the "experts" at the NTSB.

PfffT won't allow anyone to debate them over there, they ban on sight anyone who will. Wonder why that is Turbofan?

Nobody with any qualifications, or intention to debate the FDR has come
forth. Those that have been banned , were banned for good reason and
given several warning and temp suspensions.

Feel free to sign up and debate with the pros. if you claim you, or anyone
here is up to speed, please show PFT their errors. Stop the hiding.

Do you think the FBI is in on the conspiracy? The NTSB? American Airlines? The pilots union? The air traffic controllers on duty that day? The New York Times? How many of these groups are in on it Turbofan? You're a big boy, have the courage to make your accusations known! Or are you in fact a frightened schoolgirl?

All of those organizations continue to hide and "pass the buck". Nobody
wants to take responsibility for the errors . If they had nothing to hide,
they would have released a comprehensive report and corrected their mistakes.

 

[Turbofan]

Did you even read the first post in this thread?

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1999949&postcount=1

Yes, and it's ALL garbage. It's based on assumptions, and ignorance of
how data is read/written. Anti has very little understanding of the ARINC 717.

The following quote is a clear error in understanding how the data is processed!

Pressure altitude could have been sampled at 0.0 or 0.99, and they would both show up exactly the same in the CSV file.

This means we can calculate an error rate, in time, for each data point, due entirely to not knowing where in the frame this particular data-point was recorded. For a data-point sampled at 1Hz, like pressure altitude, that sample could have occurred at any point from 8:19:00 to 8:19:01. This is an error range of 1 second.

The presence of 9:37:46 in this data suggests that its timestamp may have made it onto the tape

Tape?

The FDR in AA77 was SOLID STATE.

It’s plausible that the crash caused problems in and around this local area of data, causing corruption of the 9:37:45 data frame (again, changing a single bit in a synch word is enough to cause software to completely choke).

Wrong! If partial data was written, the activity word would have stored an error/parity bit! There is no software in the FDR.

 

[Turbofan]

I. Recorded Flight Data Format

The recorded flight data is serial binary data....put the tape into a computer...

Incorrect. It is serial multi-plexed data. Once again NO TAPE!



I could spend the whole night finding more of his mistakes. It's all backed
up in the ARINC documentation.

Go look at it, and understand how little Anti knows about the FDR!

 

[Jonnyclueless]

Turbofan, what exactly happened again?

 

[WildCat]

Run? Follow the links, and you will see who our experts are.

I couldn't find any, just guys who call themselves "data experts". You have no one at PfffT who ever actually worked on analyzing FDR data, do you?

That's BS. Nobody in this thread that's for sure. If you have anyone that is competent at explaining the FDR, bring them out here so I can debate them.

You are losing badly here, and the guys here who wouldn't dare call themselves experts in FDRs show much more aptitude than the hacks at PffffT.

Our experts have found errors with the NTSB data, therefore they must be equal to, or better than the "experts" at the NTSB.

Stop lying Turbofan! You have no FDR experts, just a bunch of hacks in way over their head declaring themselves experts in an area where they have no actual expertise. This is why you refuse to list the qualifications of your "experts", yes?

Nobody with any qualifications, or intention to debate the FDR has come forth.

Your "experts" qualifications are what, exactly? I've spent this whole thread in a futile attempt to get you to list them, and you refuse. It's because they never actually worked on FDRs, have they? They're hacks who have declared themselves FDR experts, yet never in their lives were employed working on FDRs, right?

Those that have been banned , were banned for good reason and
given several warning and temp suspensions.

Stop lying, no one believes this nonsense.

Feel free to sign up and debate with the pros.

Another lie! None of your 'experts" were ever professionally employed analyzing FDR data.

if you claim you, or anyone here is up to speed, please show PFT their errors. Stop the hiding.

Been done over and over again. The biggest error is you guys are attempting to claim that the FDR found in the rubble of the Pentagon didn't come from Flight 77.

All of those organizations continue to hide and "pass the buck". Nobody wants to take responsibility for the errors . If they had nothing to hide, they would have released a comprehensive report and corrected their mistakes.

So you think they're all in on it, right down to the person answering the phones, correct?

 

[beachnut]

Show me your calculations for g data.

...
Show me the reasons for missing data

BTW, there's more than enough info in the tab and raw files to prove
AA77 didn't hit the Pentagon. That's what you simply cannot come to terms
with.

Check out the info, and explain how it's possible for AA77 to hit the
light poles, and/or the Pentagon.

SHOW ME your understanding of the NTSB data provided. Reference the
cells and the data. Make me a believer.

G stuff, there is a thread; you can find it since you are great at this stuff. 11.2 Gs, big error ...

Show me the reasons why data can't be missing. I have shown you examples of missing data. Prove data can't be missing.

Witnesses saw 77 hit the lamp posts and the Pentagon. Makes you idea, pure junk.

Your lack of knowledge on FDRs, is only exceeded by your ignorance on 9/11, evidenced by your failure to explain how you ignore thousands of pieces of evidence proving 77 hit the Pentagon. Just the DNA alone makes you a liar, when you say 77 did not hit the Pentagon, a theory p4t can't make since they are just selling false information one DVD at a time. 11.2 Gs, got physics. http://pilotsfor911truth.org/descent_rate031308.html the Best p4t can do?

 

[T.A.M.]

Someone please remind Sid at Data Creation to input the CORRECT data on the fake FDR the next time the NWO orchestrates an attack, so we don't have egg on our faces with these supersleuths at PFT.

TAM

 

[Turbofan]

I couldn't find any, just guys who call themselves "data experts". You have no one at PfffT who ever actually worked on analyzing FDR data, do you?

Do I have to do everything for you guys?

Look up Dennis Cimino, Jeff Latas, Calum Douglas.

You are losing badly here, and the guys here who wouldn't dare call themselves experts in FDRs show much more aptitude than the hacks at PffffT.

Stop lying Turbofan! You have no FDR experts, just a bunch of hacks in way over their head declaring themselves experts in an area where they have no actual expertise. This is why you refuse to list the qualifications of your "experts", yes?

THat's why you're all scared to confront PFT live then huh?
Like I said, we clearly found errors, and NTSB and FBI refuse to comment.
If PFT pros are so terrible, then how bad must the NTSB "pros" be?

Your "experts" qualifications are what, exactly? I've spent this whole thread in a futile attempt to get you to list them, and you refuse. It's because they never actually worked on FDRs, have they? They're hacks who have declared themselves FDR experts, yet never in their lives were employed working on FDRs, right?

Yet again, I have to do all of the work here. It's like debating with a wall

Jeff Latas
-Over 20 years in the USAF
--USAF Accident investigation Board President
--Flew the F-111, T38, and F-15E
--Combat experience in the F-15E includes Desert Storm and four tours of duty in Northern and Southern Watch
--Weapons Requirements Officer, USAF HQ, Pentagon
--Standard and Evaluations Flight Examiner, Command level
-Currently Captain for JetBlue Airways

Robert Balsamo
4000TT Commercial, Instrument, Multi, CFI II MEI
Corporate Chief Pilot
135 Capt
121 FO Independence Air/Atlantic Coast Airlines
King Air C-90/200, Dornier 328JET

Dennis Cimino
Flight Data Recorder Expert
Commercial pilot rating for 25 years. Systems Engineer.
Navy Combat Systems Specialist (Radar, ECM, UHF/VHF/HF COMMS., GPS, INS, SATNAV).

More here:
http://patriotsquestion911.com/pilots.html

http://video.google.ca/videosearch?q=calum+douglas&hl=en&sitesearch=#

The biggest error is you guys are attempting to claim that the FDR found in the rubble of the Pentagon didn't come from Flight 77.

So you think they're all in on it, right down to the person answering the phones, correct?

If the FDR came from AA77 why does it show too high to hit light poles
and the Pentagon?

Why does it contradict the Pentagon video?

You see, PFT has/had the resource to read the FDR file and decode
RAD ALT (something the NTSB conveniently left out ). RAD ALT
along with the corrected pressure altitude shows the plane is too high!

Surely you must find something odd about the pressure altimeter not
showing correct values in the NTSB animation? Wake up!

 

[Turbofan]

G stuff, there is a thread; you can find it since you are great at this stuff. 11.2 Gs, big error ...

You can take up the math with PFT. They are currently setting up a scale
model and will be revisiting the values. Surely, you read that clear disclaimer at the top of the page?

But if you're so smart, why don't you show us how it really should be?

Show me the reasons why data can't be missing. I have shown you examples of missing data. Prove data can't be missing.

Sorry, but I can't teach you everything that isn't already listed in my replies.

If you can't understand that the FDR did not record any error bits during the
recording of the data, then how else can I explain this data has been tampered with?

I tagged URL's with internal timing diagrams, data readouts and FDR function
from the damn manufacturer, but you just overlook all of it? Are you two years old?

Do you not see the URL's? The tranmission rates, and all of Anti-sophist's
theories have been smashed apart using these documents and proving the
FDR function...yet YOU claim it's not good enough?

You need to understand what you're reading to comprehend this technical
debate.

Maybe you should call up Rockwell/Collins, and/or L3 and have them explain
this over the phone, or via e-mail? PFT has already done this.

Witnesses saw 77 hit the lamp posts and the Pentagon. Makes you idea, pure junk.

Several of my witnesses saw otherwise. Maybe your witnesses saw a smaller
aircraft, or missile painted with American Airlines logos on the side?

Why should I believe your witnesses over mine? Mike Walter and Leroy? hahaha!

Your lack of knowledge on FDRs, is only exceeded by your ignorance on 9/11, evidenced by your failure to explain how you ignore thousands of pieces of evidence proving 77 hit the Pentagon. Just the DNA alone makes you a liar, when you say 77 did not hit the Pentagon, a theory p4t can't make since they are just selling false information one DVD at a time. 11.2 Gs, got physics. http://pilotsfor911truth.org/descent_rate031308.html the Best p4t can do?

I don't ignore other data, however nobody here has touched upon the
following:

- The small entry hole into the Pentagon
- Norman Mineta's testimony against Cheney
- E4-B video by CNN
- Lack of significant plane debris
- Lack of serial identification of plane debris
- Incorrect date on Pentagon video

My understanding of the FDR function and data transfer is mountains over
anyone here. Like I said, I've shown everyone with documentation from
L3 Communications and ARINC 717 why Anti's thoery is wrong.

What do you have to hold onto now?

 

[stateofgrace]

All is see here are theories posted up by faceless internet tough guys.

Really? Tough guy, so you will take all your evidence where, exactly?

Oh wait, you brought it here, as a faceless internet tough guy, how brave of you. How brave you are to have absolute proof your fellow countrymen committed mass murder and you brought it here.

That’s what impresses me about you guys, you talk the talk but do zero about it. Prove me wrong and take your "ground breaking evidence” to the authorities. Or are you not that tough, tough guy?