Is "black hole" a racially insensitive term?

[rwguinn]

Not necessarily. Sometimes the meaning of a statement changes depending on who the speaker is. If a bunch of gay guys toss the word "fag" around, they know they don't mean it in the bad way. But if a straight guy uses that word, he may or may not mean it in the bad way. Presumably black people can use the "n word" because one can tell, at a glance, that they don't really hate black people and are therefore aren't using the word with animus behind it.

It's the hatred behind a word that counts, not the collection of syllables that make up the form of it.

So, in order to use a word we know the dictionary meaning of, whether we know its local or cultural meaning or not, we need to have first claimed (or be qualified to claim) the $1 million?

Damn! I think we all need to develop a somewhat thicker skin...

 

[BPSCG]

Damn! I think we all need to develop a somewhat thicker skin...

Speak for yourself...

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Not necessarily. Sometimes the meaning of a statement changes depending on who the speaker is. If a bunch of gay guys toss the word "fag" around, they know they don't mean it in the bad way. But if a straight guy uses that word, he may or may not mean it in the bad way. Presumably black people can use the "n word" because one can tell, at a glance, that they don't really hate black people and are therefore aren't using the word with animus behind it.

It's the hatred behind a word that counts, not the collection of syllables that make up the form of it.

You say " Not necessarily .. " Then continue to support my point that it was not the word, but by who and where it is used..

Assuming the use of the word by non-blacks, is with animus, is bigotry.. It's pre-judging a group of people arbitrarily ..

 

[TragicMonkey]

You say " Not necessarily .. " Then continue to support my point that it was not the word, but by who and where it is used..

Assuming the use of the word by non-blacks, is with animus, is bigotry.. It's pre-judging a group of people arbitrarily ..

Um, no. My point was that a given word might or might not be a slur, but one can assume it isn't when used by the group the slur refers to. Other groups using the word might or might not mean it badly, but since they are not the group that the potential slur refers to they can't be automatically assumed to not be using it in a bad way.

I'm not assuming that white people using "the n word" are racist, but I am assuming that black people using "the n word" are not--at least not against black people.

 

[Radrook]

Um, no. My point was that a given word might or might not be a slur, but one can assume it isn't when used by the group the slur refers to. Other groups using the word might or might not mean it badly, but since they are not the group that the potential slur refers to they can't be automatically assumed to not be using it in a bad way.

I'm not assuming that white people using "the n word" are racist, but I am assuming that black people using "the n word" are not--at least not against black people.

An Afro-American coworker of mine explained it to me in detail. He said that when blacks use the "N" word in reference to one another it's referring to a foolish person and has absolutely nothing to do with race. Just today I overheard an Afro-American use the "N" word. He applied it to a fella he'd just had an altercation with and who in his estimationwas a fool. When used in a jesting manner its merely a teasing form of put-down which again has nothing to do with race. That was his explanation.

 

[zenotter]

There you go again ..
Where in this thread, has anyone besides you, suggested that ' Hispanic ' is a race ?

Yes, thank you. For a minute there I thought "when did I say that??"

Besides, the concept of "race" changes over time. "Some other race" is apparently a race now...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_(U.S._Census)

And 20 years ago, I laughed at my sister because her children were half-asian, half-african, and she was labeling them as "other"...

 

[zenotter]

An Afro-American coworker of mine explained it to me in detail. He said that when blacks use the "N" word in reference to one another it's referring to a foolish person and has absolutely nothing to do with race. Just today I overheard an Afro-American use the "N" word. He applied it to a fella he'd just had an altercation with and who in his estimationwas a fool. When used in a jesting manner its merely a teasing form of put-down which again has nothing to do with race. That was his explanation.

You may be confusing "ni***r" with *n*gga". The former is pretty universally considered as extremely offensive. The latter is more often used when trying to make the term and/or usage acceptable. (See "Tokyo Breakfast" on YouTube; 6 minutes of the N word made very hilariously endearing by a Japanese family. And yes, it's a comedy skit. With 6 minutes of the N word. You're warned. Great to see if you have a reasonably thick skin and a measure of intelligence, though. )

A brief history of the first word is located here (warning: full word spelled out many times).

Cultural/societal insistence that even though the second word may be acceptable to some (and potentially trademarkable for one), it still isn't acceptable for most, can be found here (ditto the language warning).

 

[Radrook]

Yes, thank you. For a minute there I thought "when did I say that??"

Besides, the concept of "race" changes over time. "Some other race" is apparently a race now...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_(U.S._Census)

And 20 years ago, I laughed at my sister because her children were half-Asian, half-African, and she was labeling them as "other"...

True, and it's refreshing to see that the Census Bureau is finally seeing things as they really are and not as it wishes them to be.

[excerpt]

Ethnicity
The Federal government of the United States has mandated that "in data collection and presentation, federal agencies are required to use a minimum of two ethnicities: "Hispanic or Latino" and "Not Hispanic or Latino.""[10] The Office of Management and Budget defines "Hispanic or Latino" as "a person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, South or Central American or other Spanish culture or origin regardless of race."[

Bolding mine


Finally those of Hispanic culture are given a choice of white, black, Asian, or any of the other races they might belong to.

Excerpt

Here is how Hispanics appear on the census according the article:

Relation between ethnicity and race in census results:

.....

White 16,907,852

Black or African A. 710,353

A. Indian/ Alaska Nat. 407,073

2+ races: 2,224,082

Hawaiian N. & Pacific Is. 45,326

Asian 119,829

Some other

+ W/B/N/A 1,859,538

2+ W/B/N/A 364,544

BTW
the article is misleading in sayoing that Hispanics have a trend in choosing oither in applications when race ID is required. The fact ius thhat the applications and forms themselves went out of their way to EXCLUDE persons of Hispanic heritage from marking either Black or white or Asian or even or Native American and forced them into choosing the only other category availablre on the form-which was the category of other. They did this by stating "White of non-Hispanic origin Black-of non Hispanic origin, Asian-of non Hoispanic origin, American Indian of non Hispanic origin and then the only other choice----OTHER.

Such forms still exist actually. The recertification for housing where I live is written in that particular way as were the college- application forms some twelve years ago.

 

[Radrook]

Yes, thank you. For a minute there I thought "when did I say that??"

Besides, the concept of "race" changes over time. "Some other race" is apparently a race now...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_(U.S._Census)

And 20 years ago, I laughed at my sister because her children were half-Asian, half-African, and she was labeling them as "other"...

True, and it's refreshing to see that the Census Bureau is finally seeing things as they really are and not as it wishes them to be.

[excerpt]

Ethnicity
The Federal government of the United States has mandated that "in data collection and presentation, federal agencies are required to use a minimum of two ethnicities: "Hispanic or Latino" and "Not Hispanic or Latino.""[10] The Office of Management and Budget defines "Hispanic or Latino" as "a person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, South or Central American or other Spanish culture or origin regardless of race."[

Bolding mine


Finally those of Hispanic culture are given a choice of white, black, Asian, or any of the other races they might belong to.

Excerpt

Here is how Hispanics appear on the census according the article:

Relation between ethnicity and race in census results:

.....

White 16,907,852

Black or African A. 710,353

A. Indian/ Alaska Nat. 407,073

2+ races: 2,224,082

Hawaiian N. & Pacific Is. 45,326

Asian 119,829

Some other

+ W/B/N/A 1,859,538

2+ W/B/N/A 364,544

BTW
the article is misleading in saying that Hispanics have a trend in choosing other in applications when race ID is required. The fact is that the applications and forms themselves went out of their way to EXCLUDE persons of Hispanic heritage from marking either Black or white or Asian or even or Native American and forced them into choosing the only other category available on the form-which was the category of other. They did this by stating "White of non-Hispanic origin Black-of non Hispanic origin, Asian-of non Hispanic origin, American Indian of non Hispanic origin and then the only other choice----OTHER.

Such forms still exist actually. The rectification for housing where I live is written in that particular way as were the college-application forms some twelve years ago.

 

[Jon_Stripe]

What the ◊◊◊◊ is this????

This pisses me off... badly.


What, it's o.k. for a black to make a "racial comment' on a white but once whity does it he's a hater?!?


And what the Hell is this "African-American" bull ◊◊◊◊????

If you were born in this country you are an American. Not blah blah-American. American.

If that were false I'd be a Checkaslovian-American.

No.

That only works if you've got a dual citizenship or something

This is just overly politacaly correct horse ◊◊◊◊.

"Black" is a simply an adjective to diffine a person, like "white".... There is nothing godam "racist" about it.... get over it.

You aint a KKK memb if you use the word black.......... ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU'RE USING IT AS A F**KING SCIENCE TERM!!

 

[Jon_Stripe]

To answer the titled question, no, the term "black hole" is not a racially insensitive term...

 

[Skeptical Greg]

....An Afro-American coworker of mine explained it to me in detail.

And there's the problem ... You have to explain it ..

Just like having to explain black-hole to an ignorant race baiter...

P.S.

Did your Afro-American coworker offer an explanation of the difference in meaning, of all the other words where the ' r ' is dropped, and the ' ah ' sound is substituted ?

 

[Complexity]

Jon_Stripe - If you want your posts to be read without universal giggling, please learn either to spell correctly or to use a spell checker.

You sound like a hick, dude.

Also, the mods won't tolerate asterisking out letters of words they think are naughty (George Carlin is spinning in his grave).

 

[Radrook]

And there's the problem ... You have to explain it ..

Just like having to explain black-hole to an ignorant race baiter...

P.S.

Did your Afro-American coworker offer an explanation of the difference in meaning, of all the other words where the ' r ' is dropped, and the ' ah ' sound is substituted ?

That explanation was given me thirty-four years ago and it didn't include the difference between pronouncing it with "ah" or "er" at the end. Perhaps things have changed since that time? Or maybe he himself was unfamiliar with the difference because it was regional then? I don't know. I do know, however, that he was very clear about the usage among blacks not having any racial connotations. Only indication of character defect or humorous intent was given as the reason for its usage among blacks. In fact, he said that the word was applicable to anyone regardless of race. Only character-defect was necessary in order for one to
qualify.

 

[Radrook]

What the ◊◊◊◊ is this????

This pisses me off... badly.


What, it's o.k. for a black to make a "racial comment' on a white but once whity does it he's a hater?!?


And what the Hell is this "African-American" bull ◊◊◊◊????

If you were born in this country you are an American. Not blah blah-American. American.

If that were false I'd be a Checkaslovian-American.

No.

That only works if you've got a dual citizenship or something

This is just overly politacaly correct horse ◊◊◊◊.

"Black" is a simply an adjective to diffine a person, like "white".... There is nothing godam "racist" about it.... get over it.

You aint a KKK memb if you use the word black.......... ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU'RE USING IT AS A F**KING SCIENCE TERM!!

I don't see the logic behind the perception of the term black-hole as a racial slur either. After all, it is merely referring to a phenomenon of nature which fits the description perfectly. Conversely, there are hypothetical "white holes" where all the material which plunges into the black hole makes its exit. Is that a racial slur as well? I find it hard to believe that anyone in his right mind would consider such descriptive terms offensive. Furthermore, I challenge such a person to offer a better descriptive name for the supposedly offensive description. There is none.

BTW

About the term African-American, perhaps it wouldn't stand out so much if whites used "European-American" to describe themselves. Also, members of the African American community feel themselves to be 100% American and that's where their loyalties stand. If for example, a war were to break out between some African country and the USA, African Americans would have absolutely no hesitation in doing what they would consider their American duty. So suspicions of diluted loyalties aren't really justified. The term is simply an effort at clarifying self-identity within a culture that has been traditionally and historically hostile. Nothing more.


.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

When used in a jesting manner its merely a teasing form of put-down which again has nothing to do with race. That was his explanation.

I have a feeling the Afro-American who provided you with this explanation, would not be tolerant of whitey using it in the same context ...

But that's jus my opinion ....

 

[Jon_Stripe]

BTW

About the term African-American, perhaps it wouldn't stand out so much if whites used "European-American" to describe themselves. Also, members of the African American community feel themselves to be 100% American and that's where their loyalties stand. If for example, a war were to break out between some African country and the USA, African Americans would have absolutely no hesitation in doing what they would consider their American duty. So suspicions of diluted loyalties aren't really justified. The term is simply an effort at clarifying self-identity within a culture that has been traditionally and historically hostile. Nothing more.

.

It's ridiculous in my opinion.

The term "African-American" is just what you said; an attempt to calm ignorant, sensitive, politically correct (S.C.ed) noobs.

I don't take offense to being referred to as a "White American male" and I don't see the harm in "Black American male"... Of course n*gger is a slur and shouldn't be acceptable.

People need to ease up.

 

[Radrook]

I have a feeling the Afro-American who provided you with this explanation, would not be tolerant of whitey using it in the same context ...

But that's jus my opinion ....

I agree, they wouldn't feel comfortable if a white person or any other person who isn't black uses it in that way. The acceptance of its usage among themselves is based on the knowledge that there is no racial meaning intended.

 

[zenotter]

I agree about people being too politically correct these days. For what it's worth, all of my black relatives (by marriage) call themselves "black." They're all homegrown Americans, with varying shades of dark skin.

ETA: Come to think of it, I don't know how my Greek relatives (by marriage) describe themselves more often, as white or Greek, but they're also American, and none of it should matter.

Race baiters are teh s uck.

 

[ponderingturtle]

First, I don't need to see anyone else doing anything in order for me to do it. Second, your nitpicking about made-up words is irrelevant. Third, the reason you see it as a contradiction is because you are hell-bent on browning an ethnic group which includes pure Blacks, pure whites, and pure orientals as well as populations which are a mixture of these three in different combos.
.

You do realize that color based ethnic groups are totaly meaningless, right? There are more diverse groups of africans than the exists in the entire rest of the world geneticaly speaking.

So talking about pure blacks points out that you are useing the same exact imprecise color based markers that you seem to be decrying.