Is "black hole" a racially insensitive term?

:rolleyes:

If you're serious, try practicing what you preach.

If you're not, that was a really weak joke.



A typo caused by haste isn't comparable to a predetermined habitual grammatical error. One indicates a momentary lapse. The other indicates an ingrained habit. You know, like the habit of feeling we have the right to go upside someone's head when feeling annoyed.
 
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I think bigred's consruct is some kind of regional usage. Mrs. BPSCG 1.0 used to say it occasionally, claimed it was a Pennsylvania Dutch idiom; she was from southeast Pennsylvania and said people from there talk like that all the time.

Thanks for the explanation. I guess I was judging the expression by using the standard English criterion.
 
ZO, there is Asian TV on cable, you just need to seek it out. Food Network doesn't broadcast it any more, but Iron Chef aired almost every day until a few years ago and in the evenings when G-4 isn't rerunning cops, you'd think we were watching N*BC.

*Nippon
It's been so long since I've seen Iron Chef I'd forgotten about it. We haven't had cable in nearly three years (intentional choice), but I'd love to have a dedicated channel with asian soap operas, news, etc. A 24-hr Japanese game show channel would be awesome!! :D


Anthony Quin's father was Irish and his mother Mexican and he always viewed himself as Hispanic and considered Spanish his mother tongue. Shakira's Mother is Columbian and her father Lebanese and she considers and is considered to be Hispanic. In short, there are people with your identical heritage who are Hispanic.
Maybe I'm missing something... but my heritage is 1/4 Japanese, 1/4 Taiwanese, and the other half is German, Polish, and Slavic. (Well, technically Austro-Hungarian and Prussian, but they don't exist anymore, so mreeh.) How am I (and others with this identical heritage) hispanic?? Just because some people think I look hispanic or native american doesn't mean that I actually have a hispanic or native american heritage. Apologies for not making that clear earlier; was thinking faster than I was typing. :)
 
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Maybe I'm missing something... but my heritage is 1/4 Japanese, 1/4 Taiwanese, and the other half is German, Polish, and Slavic. (Well, technically Austro-Hungarian and Prussian, but they don't exist anymore, so mreeh.) How am I (and others with this identical heritage) hispanic??

I didn't say you are Hispanic. However, whatever heritage you can come up with does not disqualify an Hispanic from being an Hispanic if indeed he is culturally Hispanic.


Just because some people think I look hispanic or native american doesn't mean that I actually have a hispanic or native american heritage.

Of course not! Many Hispanics are confused with Orientals, Northern and Southern Europeans, and Afro Americans and that doesn't make them so either.

Black Hispanics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Hispanic

Asian Hispanics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_Hispanic

White Hispanics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Hispanics
 
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:We haven't had cable in nearly three years (intentional choice),
.
I did without tv for 14 years in the 60s-70s.
With all the reruns today, I get to see that yes, not having tv in the 60s-70s didn't diminish my life in any way!
I have cable only for the Internet.
The tv part is merely a diversion when things get slow.
 
About sensitivity, wasn't the "being-on-the-side-of-history" reason for many Afro- American Hillary supporters shifting to Obama's side a blatantly insensitive act? Place the shoe on the other extremely-sensitive foot and we'd have accusations of racist-motivated political choices.

================================================

Additional link for previous post:

Asian Latin Americans
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_Latin_American
 
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey
People aren't really that stupid. Where there is no intent, there is no insult. Possibly ignorance, which can be corrected, but it's foolish to take insult when none is offered.

By choosing well-known racially offensive words instead of equally accurate but less controversial ones we run the risk of offering insult. Why use racially notorious expressions when neutral ones are readily available? The availability of other acceptable terms and the purposeful preference and choice for the well-known offensive one is what rightfully triggers suspicion.

Thesaurus
http://av.rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geun...tp://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/niggardly
 
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By choosing well-known racially offensive words instead of equally accurate but less controversial ones we run the risk of offering insult.
They are only offensive to ignorant people. Why should people who do not know the meaning of a word dictate whether it may be used or not?

Why use racially notorious expressions when neutral ones are readily available?
Niggardly is "racially notorious" only to those who do not know what the word means. Should I not use the word "nagger" because someone might not know what it means and think it's a racial epithet (pace Randy Marsh)?

The availability of other acceptable terms and the purposeful preference and choice for the well-known offensive one is what rightfully triggers suspicion.
Suspicion triggered by ignorance is never "rightful."
 
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A typo caused by haste isn't comparable to a predetermined habitual grammatical error. One indicates a momentary lapse. The other indicates an ingrained habit. You know, like the habit of feeling we have the right to go upside someone's head when feeling annoyed.
I see; so you're serious about this pointless grammatical sidetrack. :rolleyes:

FYI, your posts are loaded with grammatical screw-ups. Again, try practicing what you preach (and refraining from being a hypocritical ass).
 
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I see; so you're serious about this pointless grammatical sidetrack. :rolleyes:

FYI, your posts are loaded with grammatical screw-ups. Again, try practicing what you preach (and refraining from being a hypocritical ass).

The hypocritical asses are those individuals who insist on having their sensitivities respected while trampling on the sensitivities of others for sport. My grammatical nitpicking was a response to an unnecessary aside. That's where you typically take umbrage in order to splurge your inanities. As for your grammatical-error accusation, I don't buy it. What I do buy is your effort to get a rise. But I have a very effective remedy for such pestiferous annoyances.
 
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They are only offensive to ignorant people. Why should people who do not know the meaning of a word dictate whether it may be used or not?

The reaction isn't triggered by ignorance.

Word-origin and dictionary word definitions are not the only things which determine how a word will be perceived when being nonchalantly used by certain people in the presence of other certain people. As for dictating, it seems that the ones doing the dictating in reference on how the word HAS TO BE reacted by African Americans when used by whites in their presence are the people hell-bent on routinely deploying it.

Niggardly is "racially notorious" only to those who do not know what the word means. Should I not use the word "nagger" because someone might not know what it means and think it's a racial epithet (pace Randy Marsh)? Suspicion triggered by ignorance is never "rightful."

As you already know, the word includes a term made notorious via Caucasian usage against enslaved blacks. Why would anyone choose to use a word which includes such a reminder of abuse in the presence of a black person and then demand that it be accepted as merely an innocent choice by the speaker?


excerpt

From the perspective of the average Black American, "niggard" and "niggardly" SOUND TOO MUCH LIKE "******". THEREFORE THERE ARE BOUND TO BE SOME PEOPLE WHO WILL HAVE A KNEE-JERK REACTION AND TAKE OFFENSE. An administrator dealing with other colleagues in a predominantly African-American city, who was in touch with the culture of his colleagues, would NOT have used that word. In fact, in SOME of circles it is NOT acceptable for one black person to call another black person "******". The NAACP took a stance on this and stated that the DC Financial Board Members were overreacting. Yes, I think they were too. But, would I have used that term, even without the benefit of hindsight? HELL NO. I KNOW BETTER. I know it could be taken out of context, because I know something about African American culture. And the guy that ended up resigning because of this incident, were he not looking at the world solely from his Ivy Tower, should have known better as well.

http://b.casalemedia.com/V2/67072/117577/index.html?creativebrother.freehosting.net/race.html


I guess we simply disagree on this point.
 
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I didn't say you are Hispanic. However, whatever heritage you can come up with does not disqualify an Hispanic from being an Hispanic if indeed he is culturally Hispanic.

Yeah okay, but I was thinking you were a bit confused with the "there are people with your identical heritage who are Hispanic." Sure, there can be completely asian-american people in heritage but raised in a hispanic culture... and though I've lived and worked in hispanic/latino communities where Mexican Spanish is spoken as opposed to Spaniard Spanish, I still consider myself an asian-american (a.k.a. "rice cracker") culturally speaking. If my love of hip-hop/rap could encourage people to think that I was culturally black, they still wouldn't see it (ETA: my inherent blackitude), methinks, due to my skin color.

Is it me, or has this thread gotten silly? I was just thinking, "Ooh, can't say black, what's the opposite of black? Anti-white? No it's not. That has a completely different meaning. Dang, this is silly!"

- A Yellowish Menace
 
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Can I say that the people who are trying to censor words like niggardly have their knickers in a knot, or does 'knickers' sound too much like that other word?
 
It's been so long since I've seen Iron Chef I'd forgotten about it. We haven't had cable in nearly three years (intentional choice), but I'd love to have a dedicated channel with asian soap operas, news, etc. A 24-hr Japanese game show channel would be awesome!! :D

A quick tangent. I loved Battle of the Planets when I was a kid and just watched some eps I got from Netflix. The DVDs include the original Gatcheman episodes and it's interesting to see how different the two were (even if the story lines stayed pretty true).
 
The hypocritical asses are those individuals who insist on having their sensitivities respected while trampling on the sensitivities of others for sport. My grammatical nitpicking was a response to an unnecessary aside. That's where you typically take umbrage in order to splurge your inanities. As for your grammatical-error accusation, I don't buy it. What I do buy is your effort to get a rise. But I have a very effective remedy for such pestiferous annoyances.

lol - at least you have a little comedic value. Granted it's not much, but more than I figured on.

I'd bother to reply further, but you've made it exceedingly clear that would be pointless.

PS congrats on using the word "pestiferous." Most impressive.

:rolleyes:
 
The reaction isn't triggered by ignorance.
Please show your evidence. The Washington DC brouhaha over the use of "niggardly" was quite clearly triggered by the complainers' ignorance of the meaning of the word. They didn't think "niggardly" sounded like a racial epithet; they thought it was a racial epithet.

Word-origin and dictionary word definitions are not the only things which determine how a word will be perceived when being nonchalantly used by certain people in the presence of other certain people.
That's just a fancy way of saying "Ignorant people don't know what words mean."

As for dictating, it seems that the ones doing the dictating in reference on how the word HAS TO BE reacted by African Americans when used by whites in their presence are the people hell-bent on routinely deploying it.
"Routinely deploying it"? Who do you know who "routinely deploys it"? Who have you ever heard of who "routinely deploys it"? Perhaps if it were "routinely deployed," more people might understand what it means and wouldn't make asses of themselves objecting to its use.

The same holds true for "black hole."

As you already know, the word includes a term made notorious via Caucasian usage against enslaved blacks.
You should look up the etymology of "niggardly." It has absolutely no racial connotations.

English is a very rich language, in large part because it incorporates words from many different languages. "Niggardly" is from middle English; the "n" word is a corruption of "negro," which has Latin roots. And "niggardly" has a distinct meaning from other synonyms expressing similar ideas - that's why we have different words. This is from dictionary.com's definition (bolding mine):

Usage: Avaricious, Covetous, Parsimonious, Penurious, Miserly, Niggardly. The avaricious eagerly grasp after it at the expense of others, though not of necessity with a design to save, since a man may be covetous and yet a spendthrift. The penurious, parsimonious, and miserly save money by disgraceful self-denial, and the niggardly by meanness in their dealing with others. We speak of persons as covetous in getting, avaricious in retaining, parsimonious in expending, penurious or miserly in modes of living, niggardly in dispensing.
By demanding people stop using "niggardly," you are displaying the same mindset as O'Brien in George Orwell's 1984, wherein he boasts that the Party is deliberately shrinking the English language as a means of limiting people's ability to think. If you have the word "good," then you don't need the word "bad," or any of its variants, because "ungood" is a perfect substitute for "bad." And you can easily intensify "good": "plusgood," "doubleplusgood," and likewise, "plusungood" and "doubleplusungood."

Orwell posited the fictional shrinkage of language as a means of thought control. You are apparently advocating it as a means of avoiding offense to the ignorant. Perhaps you believe we should avoid any possibility of offending anyone with limited language abilities by adopting Orwell's 1984-style constructions. One root word will suffice - "Generous":

Ungenerous = cheap
Plusungenerous = cheaper
Doubleplusungenerous = cheapest

Frankly, I think "doubleplusungenerous" is a much uglier word than "niggardly."

This is from a list of rules for good writing I once came across:
In addition to these large rules, there are some little ones. These require that the author shall:
12. Say what he is proposing to say, not merely come near it.
13. Use the right word, not its second cousin.
The complete list can be found here. It's by Mark Twain, who knew a little bit about good writing.
 
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Film and technology geeks everywhere are wondering what the implications are for "black box". In black box theory, a black box is something that you put one thing into, and something else comes out of it.
 
Film and technology geeks everywhere are wondering what the implications are for "black box". In black box theory, a black box is something that you put one thing into, and something else comes out of it.
And a black box is generally supposed to be something good, even though you don't necessarily know what's happening inside it.
 
And a black box is generally supposed to be something good, even though you don't necessarily know what's happening inside it.

All you need to really know is which bit to plug into where...
 

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