Are Truthers' accusations against Silverstein based on latent anti-Semitism?

You are an amusingly brazen bluffer. Your deficiencies in logic are on display 24/7. You exhibit no knowledge of probability and statistics (your imaginary conspiracy can be readily shown to be mathematically impossible, as I have demonstrated many times).
Laughable. You make frequent use of absurd strawmen, such as "7,000 FBI agents in on it, yada yada". Apparently, you never heard of the concept of division of labor, and it stretches your imagination beyond it's capacity to consider that covert operations are designed to have a minimal number of operators and knowldege is shared on a 'need to know' basis.

You are so in love with your ludicrous strawmen that you think you've demonstrated "mathematical impossibility"! Why don't you take your laughable demonstration to a statistician who has a lick of common sense re division of labor and what the 'covertness' in a covert operation means, and then tell us what the statistician has to say?

I used to work on the same table with two other programmers, and one of them - a very bright kid we hired for the summer - had stuff in the code that neither of us could figure out, which we discovered after he left. Your brilliant logic demands that we must have 'been in on it', and the reason I commented these inscrutable code statements (partly in jest) '"What was Dave thinking?" was to cover our tracks. Not.

You really don't know what you're talking about, do you? No, I'm not referring to the contents of your email box, etc.

You make the staggeringly silly assumption that your tiny, evil movement numbers in the tens of millions. Physician, heal thyself!
I have been referring to the 911 Truth Movement without specifying it's definition. What I was thinking about was simply those who believed in LIHOP or MIHOP. I was not considering ito people who stand in public places with signs that say "911 was an Inside Job", if that's what you were thinking.

What were you thinking?

Your uninformed blather boils down to a desperate attempt to pretend that the high percentage of Jew-haters I have encountered in my dealings with the fantasy movement is, inexplicably, not representative of the movement as a whole.
A garbage pail gathers a lot of flies. In my experiences of discussing and debating things at the stj911 forum, I have trouble recalling anybody that hated Jews. Your hysterical smearing notwithstanding, your sampling technique - consisting of your email spam plus assorted forums plus some youtube videos - may not only be a lousy one, in general, but may be additionally distorted due to your keeping of bad company.

Your continued failure to admit that you don't have a scientifically valid way of judging anti-Semitism amongst 911 Truthers just speaks to either your irrationality, or dishonesty. You have been asked for real, statistically significant evidence a number of times on this thread, yet you continue to dodge and whine. But do keep it up, won't you? I think your critical thinking skills could stand additional exposition.

Why should anyone believe you?
Because they have a brain? Because they don't find a compulsive need to smear groups of people that take seriously ideas that they don't agree with? Because they understand something about probability and statistics? Because even though you ducked my questions re determining who is a shill, other people know that most shills won't be dumb enough to admit it, and so this is generally something that can't be determined?

All of the above?


Visit any YouTube video celebrating some angry adolescent's ability to fabricate nonsense and you will be overwhelmed by anti-Semitic drivel.
Will I? Are you sure? I'm sure there's lot's of 'genuine' anti-Semitism, to go along with the shills. But what is a lot, as a percentage of 911 Truthers? 911 Truthers who are WTC 7 aware? You don't know, and you are making it obvious that you don't know. Your "one third" lower bound is not based on anything scientific.

The psychotic coward Killclown has labeled me a "Nazi Shill" for the Zionists (it makes as much sense as anything he writes).
I believe you're referring to Nico Haupt. AFAIK, he has been banned from a number of 911 web sites. Furthermore, he's just one person.

You are also just one person, and I wouldn't dream of imputing your atrocious manners and lunatic extrapolations (with all the fanatism that implies) to the masses of people who don't believe in either LIHOP or MIHOP. Perhaps if I drank the same Kool-Aid as you do, and (God Forbid) got cc'd your emails, I would start spouting the same sort of slanderous piffle that you seem to be in love with. I'd just have to change my tune, a bit, and presto, wham-o, I too could be a smear-merchant, but with an opposite target.

I think I'll pass.

You are trying to peddle your fiction to people who know better.
You confuse your imaginative and distorted viewpoint with reality. Their are rational tools - probability and statistics - that could be brought to bear on the subject of discussion (given a sufficient budget...), but you are not interested in that. I remind readers that you have not answered my question about anti-Semitism in the general population. I'm sure that people who don't have the same anti-Semitism-smear axe to grind, as you yourself do, will be able to come to a reasonable conclusion as to why you have avoided the question.

You wrote:

"If a person has an irrational attitude towards Larry Silverstein, it could indeed be due to their being anti-Semitic. However, if they're not anti-Semitic, to begin with, then it can't be anti-Semitism.

Does this make logical sense to a "rationalist", such as yourself?"


Anti-Semitism can't be the source of irrationality that doesn't stem from anti-Semitism. Hmmm, that would be correct (you might want to look up "tautology"). Yeah, you've taken lots of courses in Logic.
No actually, I haven't. I've studied mathematical logic. Your fierce irrationality might be mitigated by pondering the implications of said tautology. For one thing, if you impute anti-Semitism to individuals that can't be anti-Semitic, something is wrong - very wrong - with your 'reasoning'.

I think we can safely agree that the twoofers whose irrational attitude toward Larry Silverstein doesn't stem from anti-Semitism are probably not anti-Semites. We are left with the ones who are anti-Semites, which I estimate to be at least one-third. Again, based on personal experience, I would estimate the percentage of Jew-haters to be higher, but I have purposely erred on the conservative side.

One-third, eh? In a way, I'm impressed that you would post a non-trivial number. Of course, you have no more statistically significant evidence for such a belief than you had for your previous, more nebulous estimate of "more or less than half".
 
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Laughable. You make frequent use of absurd strawmen, such as "7,000 FBI agents in on it, yada yada". Apparently, you never heard of the concept of division of labor, and it stretches your imagination beyond it's capacity to consider that covert operations are designed to have a minimal number of operators and knowldege is shared on a 'need to know' basis.


What is laughable is your arrogant, empty-headed ignorance. Seven thousand FBI agents participated in an unprecedentedly comprehesive investigation that identifed the hijackers and found no evidence for the use of explosives at the WTC complex. Your baseless falsehood about the FBI's involvement in the Impossibly Vast Conspiracy reveals you as as typical ineducable conspiracy liar.


You are so in love with your ludicrous strawmen that you think you've demonstrated "mathematical impossibility"! Why don't you take your laughable demonstration to a statistician who has a lick of common sense re division of labor and what the 'covertness' in a covert operation means, and then tell us what the statistician has to say?


Unlike you liars who fabricate your nonsense without pausing for a moment to consider if there is any chance of it being true, I do seek out informed opinion. The statistician to whom I originally showed my demonstration of the impossiblity of your imaginary conspiracy is arguably the foremost authority on the game of blackjack and a finance whiz who conducts options seminars for Morgan Stanley. He found the math rather elementary, while acknowledging the ineluctability of the conclusion.



I used to work on the same table with two other programmers, and one of them - a very bright kid we hired for the summer - had stuff in the code that neither of us could figure out, which we discovered after he left. Your brilliant logic demands that we must have 'been in on it', and the reason I commented these inscrutable code statements (partly in jest) '"What was Dave thinking?" was to cover our tracks. Not.

You really don't know what you're talking about, do you? No, I'm not referring to the contents of your email box, etc.


On the subject of not knowing what one is talking about, your irrelevant anecdote hasn't fooled anyone. You're arguing that most of NIST's 1,000 researchers were dupes. Okay, so who is in the know? Out with it! Who knows where the bogus science is hidden in the ten thousand pages of the NIST Report. Why haven't physicists and engineers from countries that hate America pitched in to assist your evil, brain-dead movement? Oh, you keep forgetting to expose those dastardly air traffic controllers who, by claiming to track the hijacked planes into NYC, were obviously in on it.


I have been referring to the 911 Truth Movement without specifying it's definition. What I was thinking about was simply those who believed in LIHOP or MIHOP. I was not considering ito people who stand in public places with signs that say "911 was an Inside Job", if that's what you were thinking.

What were you thinking?


Yes, the fantasy movement consists of MHIOPers and LIHOPers. The whole leftwing contingent that is along for the ride vanishes right after November. Sorry.



A garbage pail gathers a lot of flies. In my experiences of discussing and debating things at the stj911 forum, I have trouble recalling anybody that hated Jews. Your hysterical smearing notwithstanding, your sampling technique - consisting of your email spam plus assorted forums plus some youtube videos - may not only be a lousy one, in general, but may be additionally distorted due to your keeping of bad company.


Why must you ignorant loons always pretend that the opponent who is systematically destroying your farrago of bogus science, distorted quotes, and outright lies is either "hysterical" or "raging" or some such crap? The rationalists here can eat you ignorant frauds for breakfast without breaking a sweat.


Your continued failure to admit that you don't have a scientifically valid way of judging anti-Semitism amongst 911 Truthers just speaks to either your irrationality, or dishonesty. You have been asked for real, statistically significant evidence a number of times on this thread, yet you continue to dodge and whine. But do keep it up, won't you? I think your critical thinking skills could stand additional exposition.


Who are you, an innumerate fantasist, to ask for statistical evidence? You have been told that no studies of this subject exist. Stop your childish gamesplaying. You're not nearly smart enough to con anyone here. It is obvious to anyone who deals with you liars regularly that many, if not most, of the members of your evil movement are anti-Semites.


Because they have a brain? Because they don't find a compulsive need to smear groups of people that take seriously ideas that they don't agree with? Because they understand something about probability and statistics? Because even though you ducked my questions re determining who is a shill, other people know that most shills won't be dumb enough to admit it, and so this is generally something that can't be determined?

All of the above?


A typical conspiracy liar. Your inane, disingenuous question was answered. You didn't like the answer, so in time-honored twoofer fashion, you pretend that it wasn't answered. What do you understand about probability and statistics? Your slack-jawed befuddlement in the face of my simple demonstration tells us all we need to know.



Will I? Are you sure? I'm sure there's lot's of 'genuine' anti-Semitism, to go along with the shills. But what is a lot, as a percentage of 911 Truthers? 911 Truthers who are WTC 7 aware? You don't know, and you are making it obvious that you don't know. Your "one third" lower bound is not based on anything scientific.



More empty blather. The loon sites are crawling with Jew-haters. You and everyone who ever visited one is well aware of that FACT.



I believe you're referring to Nico Haupt. AFAIK, he has been banned from a number of 911 web sites. Furthermore, he's just one person.


I believe you're wrong as usual.


You are also just one person, and I wouldn't dream of imputing your atrocious manners and lunatic extrapolations (with all the fanatism that implies) to the masses of people who don't believe in either LIHOP or MIHOP. Perhaps if I drank the same Kool-Aid as you do, and (God Forbid) got cc'd your emails, I would start spouting the same sort of slanderous piffle that you seem to be in love with. I'd just have to change my tune, a bit, and presto, wham-o, I too could be a smear-merchant, but with an opposite target.

I think I'll pass.


Smear merchant? An odd charge coming from a conspiracy liar who routinely slanders innocent men and women to promote pernicious falsehoods. Have I called anyone a Jew-hater who isn't one?



You confuse your imaginative and distorted viewpoint with reality. Their are rational tools - probability and statistics - that could be brought to bear on the subject of discussion (given a sufficient budget...), but you are not interested in that. I remind readers that you have not answered my question about anti-Semitism in the general population. I'm sure that people who don't have the same anti-Semitism-smear axe to grind, as you yourself do, will be able to come to a reasonable conclusion as to why you have avoided the question.


There is obviously a significant residue of anti-Semitism in the general population. For the reasons I keep outlining, the fantasy movement draws Jew-haters exactly as garbage draws flies.



No actually, I haven't. I've studied mathematical logic. Your fierce irrationality might be mitigated by pondering the implications of said tautology. For one thing, if you impute anti-Semitism to individuals that can't be anti-Semitic, something is wrong - very wrong - with your 'reasoning'.


You may have studied mathematical logic, but you surely didn't pass the course. Yes, most of us got the idea that my tautology embodied a banal truth.


One-third, eh? In a way, I'm impressed that you would post a non-trivial number. Of course, you have no more statistically significant evidence for such a belief than you had for your previous, more nebulous estimate of "more or less than half".


After your furious tap dancing and witless displays of innumeracy, we all understand that your evil movement teems with anti-Semites.
 
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I think the authors of "Conspiracy Theories and Secret Societies for Dummies" put it best when they stated that not all Truthers are Anti Semities, but it is telling that Anti Semites have found such a warm reception in the "Movement".
 
I suppose what you do is insinuate or imply. Be man enough to have the courage to just state it plainly.

Coming from anyone else, I agree wholeheartedly.

Coming from RedIbis, this is the most ironic and hilarious statement I've ever heard.

Ironymeter.jpg


RedIbis, you, OF ALL PEOPLE, are in NO position to chastise someone for "insinuating or implying" instead of "just stating it plainly". You, who accuse Silverstein without saying of what or why. You, who implicate the FDNY indirectly while denying it directly. You, who practically stated that the delay in NIST's WTC 7 report was deliberate, without actually stating it. You, who believe there is significance in the question of exactly what caused the hole in the C-ring of the Pentagon without explaining what that significance is. You, who dismiss all the evidence that Flight 93 crashed in Shanksville based on the lack of an arbitrarily determined number of photographs, but who does not have the balls to say that it DIDN'T crash there. You, who can't even tell us the answer to the question "Was 9/11 an inside job?"

I would be laughing my head off were this not so sad and pathetic.
 
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Coming from anyone else, I agree wholeheartedly.

Coming from RedIbis, this is the most ironic and hilarious statement I've ever heard.

This is very poorly constructed logic and posting large pictures of played out internet "jokes" isn't going to strengthen your position.

Regardless of what you might think, I've been very specific on LS, NIST, etc. For example, I never accused Silverstein of a crime. I never accused him of destroying WTC 7. I have accused him of being dishonest, and damn loony in regards to his theories on why the bldg collapsed. But as of yet, I don't think being dishonest or stupid is a crime.

There, I've tossed out another softball. There are any number of one-liners the "skeptics" here can latch onto.
 
Laughable. You make frequent use of absurd strawmen, such as "7,000 FBI agents in on it, yada yada". Apparently, you never heard of the concept of division of labor, and it stretches your imagination beyond it's capacity to consider that covert operations are designed to have a minimal number of operators and knowldege is shared on a 'need to know' basis.

I can't take credit for the following but it applies here:

The, "Black Ops" guys are everywhere, omnipotent, able to violate every law in the book, including laws of physics, chemistry, gravity, and common-sense. They have "licenses to kill," unlimited sources of funding and logistics, complete knowledge of every aspect of the planet, from metallurgy to religion, fanatical loyalty and obedience to their immediate chain of command, and not the slightest scruple of morality about murder, assassination, committing atrocities, or betraying fellow countrymen.
 
I suppose what you do is insinuate or imply. Be man enough to have the courage to just state it plainly. No use lying about it.

I find it fascinating that conspiracy liars have such a shaky grasp of the concept of lying. I insinuate that you are a Jew-hater because your repeated slanders of Larry Silverstein are explicable on that basis. You have been afforded ample opportunity to present a coherent case against Silverstein. Your empty blather and tiresome tap dancing has persuaded the rationalists here that you can't begin to express what the man might be guilty of. Yet, you persist in smearing him.

A number of clumsy liars in the fantasy movement routinely ask if this or that debunker has "dual-citizenship." Now, what do you suppose they are getting at with this bizarre question? What country are they talking about? As there is 100% agreement, with the possible exception of the hopelessly obtuse "metamars," that Israel is the subject of the mad inquiry, can we discern anti-Semitism here? What other explanation is possible?
 
This is very poorly constructed logic and posting large pictures of played out internet "jokes" isn't going to strengthen your position.

What are you blathering about now? There's "logic" involved in calling a spade a spade, or an apple red? News to me. Perhaps you would benefit from looking up the word "logic".

It's fascinating that you complain about my pictures every time I post them. They're not there to "strengthen my position". Maybe if you would pull the stick out of your butt you would realize that. But what's fascinating is that you actually take the trouble to TELL me that they won't strengthen my position--as if 1) I didn't already know that (making your statement a subtle insult against my intelligence) and 2) by doing so you will somehow strengthen YOUR position.

You think I won't catch your cleverly worded insults, but I always do.

Regardless of what you might think, I've been very specific on LS, NIST, etc. For example, I never accused Silverstein of a crime. I never accused him of destroying WTC 7. I have accused him of being dishonest, and damn loony in regards to his theories on why the bldg collapsed. But as of yet, I don't think being dishonest or stupid is a crime.

Yet you have thus far FAILED to tell us what he said that is "dishonest", what he is being "dishonest" about, or what evidence there is that he is being "dishonest". So no, you have not been specific at all. You have simply repeated over and over again that he was "lying through his dentures". That is not a specific statement, nor does repeating it over and over again magically make it true. The only explanation for your deliberately disingenuous behavior is that you want to say that Silverstein was involved somehow, but you know you would never be able to back up such a ludicrous idea. Just like you want to say that there was no plane at the Pentagon, but are too cowardly to do so. Just like you want to say that FDNY members were involved in a coverup, but are too cowardly to do so. Just like you want to say that NIST is involved in a coverup, but are too cowardly to do so. And just like you want to pretend that Flight 93 never crashed in Shanksville, but don't have the balls to actually say it. You are in NO position to chastise Pomeroo for not "stating it plainly", because you have yet to EVER state ANYTHING plainly. Don't believe me? Well surely you can search through your posting history and give us ONE solid, concrete statement you have ever made that has been backed up by facts. Right?

Such is why Pomeroo is suspicious of you, because you keep saying Silverstein was lying but refuse to explain or prove it. We have to wonder if you have something personal against Silverstein.

Of course you could put this thread to rest once and for all by either 1) proving that Silverstein lied, or 2) denouncing the anti-Semites who make up the Truth Movement's leadership. But you apparently have some bizarre rebel-15-year-old complex where you refuse to do anything people tell you, simply on the basis that they told you to do it. So I predict that you will practically ignore this entire post and instead choose to reply to it with one-sentence smart-alec quips like you always do. Go ahead, prove me right. You will accomplish nothing, as the Truth Movement has accomplished nothing, towards getting the New InvestigationTM that you so desperately want above everything else in the world. In fact, you will actually HINDER your progress as the general public sees that you and the rest of your ill-begotten Movement are not worth paying attention to and your pathetic whining about "the truth" vanishes from history as you realize you have wasted your entire life chasing a fantasy.
 
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I find it fascinating that conspiracy liars have such a shaky grasp of the concept of lying. I insinuate that you are a Jew-hater because your repeated slanders of Larry Silverstein are explicable on that basis. You have been afforded ample opportunity to present a coherent case against Silverstein. Your empty blather and tiresome tap dancing has persuaded the rationalists here that you can't begin to express what the man might be guilty of. Yet, you persist in smearing him.

A number of clumsy liars in the fantasy movement routinely ask if this or that debunker has "dual-citizenship." Now, what do you suppose they are getting at with this bizarre question? What country are they talking about? As there is 100% agreement, with the possible exception of the hopelessly obtuse "metamars," that Israel is the subject of the mad inquiry, can we discern anti-Semitism here? What other explanation is possible?

Why is it that the only time I've ever heard the term "Jew-hater" on jref it comes from you?
 
Why is it that the only time I've ever heard the term "Jew-hater" on jref it comes from you?
Because you are biased. Open your eyes and you will see many other here use the term and you can even see that term used over at LCF.
 
Because you are biased. Open your eyes and you will see many other here use the term and you can even see that term used over at LCF.

Well I don't read LCF. Quote someone besides Pom using that term.
 
Well I don't read LCF. Quote someone besides Pom using that term.
Here is one...

Enigma said:
Wow....a proven jew hater pulls the "arabs are too dumb" card. This is gonna be fun to watch...

And looky at the second link. It is our own RedIbis...

Why is it that the only time I've ever heard the term "Jew-hater" on jref it comes from you?

You can search the forum to find other references. So now you really owe Ron an apology for making a bs statement.
 
Here is one...



And looky at the second link. It is our own RedIbis...



You can search the forum to find other references. So now you really owe Ron an apology for making a bs statement.

Seriously, that's dumb as hell. You've just proven that the only two people who use that phrase are you and Pom. I would only use it in response to the ridiculous name calling.

You basically just proved my point.
 
Seriously, that's dumb as hell. You've just proven that the only two people who use that phrase are you and Pom. I would only use it in response to the ridiculous name calling.

You basically just proved my point.
I proved that only Ron uses that phrase? Are you brain impaired?
 

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