Advice on civil debate

[Correa Neto]

My experience:

I'm married with a Catholic since 1994. She's a biology teatcher and holds no YEC and anti-evolution beliefs. She's also a quite lousy on the religious side, in great part thanks to my influence [insert evil demoniac laughter here].

Its not common for us to discuss religion and god; on the rare occasions this happens she runs out of arguments very quickly and has to acknoweledge the "because I want to believe" ultimate motivation for her faith. So, we stop the discussions and agree to disagree.

The bottomline is that we have more important things to fight about, such as dirty socks loose at the bedding room's floor.

We stick togheter, however, when its time to face our families complaints about the fact that our son is being created within an environment where religion is not present.

 

[RobRoy]

If you are referring to her "wearing offensive T-shirts" commentary, I will let her speak for herself on that one (although I think the "I had a nightmare that I was brunette" T-shirt is funny, since I am also a natural blonde).

I was. I find the t-shirt funny too, and I'm definately a natural brunette. But in this context, targeting this woman based on one ignorant remark, during a stressful time, and one probably filled with some pain, seems spiteful and mean.

Caveat: I'm only basing my response on the information I have at hand provided in this thread. Perhaps they (instructor and Christian) have had run-ins before, and so some passive-agressive brunette-bashing is in order. <shrug>

 

[Ixion]

sorry.
Yes, it was a (bad) joke.
I thought it was very odd the way all the charcters in this story were showing up and starting accounts. Ill sit in the corner now.

No, it's ok. I am glad we piqued your interest enough to make a comment on this thread, even if it was obtuse. Sorry, I can be quite dense sometimes.

 

[Ixion]

I was. I find the t-shirt funny too, and I'm definately a natural brunette. But in this context, targeting this woman based on one ignorant remark, during a stressful time, and one probably filled with some pain, seems spiteful and mean.

Caveat: I'm only basing my response on the information I have at hand provided in this thread. Perhaps they (instructor and Christian) have had run-ins before, and so some passive-agressive brunette-bashing is in order. <shrug>

To be honest, I think she might just be sarcastic in this intent. I don't think they have ever had a run-in before.

 

[Dogdoctor]

My advice is don't take it personally. There are lots of people around like that. In reality they can't tell an atheist from a Christian without discussing religious beliefs. No point getting worked up over it. Let her make a fool of herself. It won't help to try to force her to see the fallacy of her ways. However if she ever indicated she wanted to know what you think or believe then respond. One problem in dealing with someone like that is that if you are offended, it may show and you may just be labeled another dumb atheist and everything you say will be discounted. So while you may feel better having said your piece you did not accomplish anything positive for atheism by doing so and however intelligent and well thought out what you say is it won't be received that way.

 

[Darwin'sMommy]

I'm guessing Darwin'sMommy isn't real either

Can any of us say we're real? What is real? Oops, this isn't the existentialism forum, my bad. BTW, love the "I'm the electrician" opening, Quarky!

I fully understand that written messages of any kind are not good indicators of emotions felt at the time they were written, so let me just take a sec to clarify. The Christian girl in question (I'll call her M) is a wonderful person. I love seeing her in class and talk to her on a regular basis before and after class. I have absolutely no malice toward her and would never do anything to intentionally hurt anyone And as an instructor it would be unprofessional of me to argue anything with anyone on the premises.

And let me throw this one out into the ether, is there anything wrong with being passive aggressive? Isn't it better than full-frontal aggression? I don't consider myself a passive aggressive person but will fully admit to doing it from time to time. I've had to deal with LOTS of people in my fitness classes who I really don't like (M is not one of them) and sometimes I deliberatly push them to work harder during my classes, helps me put up with them. To be honest I just think people like the way "passive aggressive" sounds, like using that term gives them psych cred.

 

[Hamsterfan]

My experience:

I'm married with a Catholic since 1994. She's a biology teatcher and holds no YEC and anti-evolution beliefs. She's also a quite lousy on the religious side, in great part thanks to my influence [insert evil demoniac laughter here].

Its not common for us to discuss religion and god; on the rare occasions this happens she runs out of arguments very quickly and has to acknoweledge the "because I want to believe" ultimate motivation for her faith. So, we stop the discussions and agree to disagree.

The bottomline is that we have more important things to fight about, such as dirty socks loose at the bedding room's floor.

We stick togheter, however, when its time to face our families complaints about the fact that our son is being created within an environment where religion is not present.

That, honestly, would have been the difference for me. Had this gal been saying to me that I should not stay married to my atheist - then yes, my non-confronting nature would have disappeared beneath a barrage of sardonic snipes. Generally, I am willing to listen to people vent (as I feel like we all do, and need to do, from time to time) particularly if it will help them heal and move past this issue personally. I do not think she will change her opinions, particularly staying in a religious environment that encourages her current beliefs. *shrug* So the argument would simply be that between she and I.

And Ixion and I (although we, too, do discuss religion off forum every now and again) do prefer arguing over more important things - like laundry and dishes.

 

[RobRoy]

The Christian girl in question (I'll call her M) is a wonderful person. I love seeing her in class and talk to her on a regular basis before and after class.

Fair enough. As I've said before, I don't have the full story, and still don't. I'll gladly sit corrected on this one. I prefer, it actually.

I have absolutely no malice toward her and would never do anything to intentionally hurt anyone And as an instructor it would be unprofessional of me to argue anything with anyone on the premises.

Not to question your lack of malice, but if that’s the case, why deliberately pick out a shirt with that stated intention?

And let me throw this one out into the ether, is there anything wrong with being passive aggressive?

There's all kinds of issues with being passive-aggressive. Not the least of which is how it can ultimately exacerbate a potentially small problem beyond its original scope causing a myriad of other issues.

Isn't it better than full-frontal aggression?

No. What's "better" is open communication. With the emphasis on "open" for both sides. That may not always be possible, but it is preferable in almost all interpersonal communication.

To be honest I just think people like the way "passive aggressive" sounds, like using that term gives them psych cred.

In six posts you've now offered three examples of passive-aggressive responses. I don't know you from Eve, and I'm not looking to offend you. Ixion is a nice guy, and says you're a nice person too. But a duck is a duck, whether or not you offer an ad hom attack on the person calling it a duck.

If it's made you uncomfortable or embarassed to have this pointed out, then I apologize. That wasn't my intent.