luchog
Neo-Post-Retro-Revivalist
That's convenient for them, lets them make any claims they want.
For now, I'm withholding judgement until I get actual, hard cradle-to-grave efficiency numbers.
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The New Biodiesel; Algae for High Yield Oil Production
- Thread starter emerycorp
- Start date
That's convenient for them, lets them make any claims they want.
For now, I'm withholding judgement until I get actual, hard cradle-to-grave efficiency numbers.
It's a good sign they're willing to hand them out. It means they're confidant enough in the process to give people hard facts.
They also don't want to give their competitors hard facts, or have them released publicly. Fair enough, and there are many reasons to do that.
I'll withhold judgment, but I think this is actually a good sign.
soylent
Muse
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2007
- Messages
- 968
That seems to be the amount of oil required to get the same amount of heat as burning a years worth of algae from one acre. Doesn't seem like a very useful stat. That would be cellulose, protein and oil all taken toghether.
Had a friend send this http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/359.html Not much in it that we don't know except he says that the algae makes veg oil. So may be algae could be treated like old veg oil, worth a try on a test batch. The algae is about 50% oil.
casebro
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2005
- Messages
- 19,788
So , what is the biggest pilot project going? They all seem to base projections on test-tube sized laboratory projects. Is it Valcent with the 30 tube sample, and plans for 1/8th acre?
And has there been any mention of the amount of energy used in growing and expelling?
There must be some fairly major stumbling block. The technology has been around for ten years erso, but there hasn't been any back-yard tinkerer making even enough to fry his chips? Then adding more tubes, and selling some at his local health food store? The Japanese l-o-o-o-ve mariculture- yet there doesn't seem to be any Japanese cottage industry?
Maybe somebody else's google-fu is better than mine. I can't find any kind of algae oil for sale. Far as I can tell, nobody has ever made ANY actual algae oil.
Perhaps a warm,wet monoculture is impossible to maintain on any scale larger than a test tube? Face it, warm,wet environments are the ideal places to grow germs. And there has to lots of germie-things that would love to eat energy rich algae.
Seems like what it would take is a pharmaceutical type production plant. Any body got a clue as to the cost of growing a batch of penicillin? Or ,say, yeast by the ton? Lessee, If I can buy yeast for $2/lb, and if it were 50% oil, then $4/lb for the oil, seven pounds per gallon, $28 per gallon.
Anybody got any other comparable products? Hydroponic tomatoes? Once the water is removed, what would be the price for sundried hydroponic tomatoes per pound? 14 pounds per gallon, if they were 50% oil?
And has there been any mention of the amount of energy used in growing and expelling?
There must be some fairly major stumbling block. The technology has been around for ten years erso, but there hasn't been any back-yard tinkerer making even enough to fry his chips? Then adding more tubes, and selling some at his local health food store? The Japanese l-o-o-o-ve mariculture- yet there doesn't seem to be any Japanese cottage industry?
Maybe somebody else's google-fu is better than mine. I can't find any kind of algae oil for sale. Far as I can tell, nobody has ever made ANY actual algae oil.
Perhaps a warm,wet monoculture is impossible to maintain on any scale larger than a test tube? Face it, warm,wet environments are the ideal places to grow germs. And there has to lots of germie-things that would love to eat energy rich algae.
Seems like what it would take is a pharmaceutical type production plant. Any body got a clue as to the cost of growing a batch of penicillin? Or ,say, yeast by the ton? Lessee, If I can buy yeast for $2/lb, and if it were 50% oil, then $4/lb for the oil, seven pounds per gallon, $28 per gallon.
Anybody got any other comparable products? Hydroponic tomatoes? Once the water is removed, what would be the price for sundried hydroponic tomatoes per pound? 14 pounds per gallon, if they were 50% oil?
A friend of mine works for a company that's working on turning algae and sunlight in to oil. They're just getting started, but he took me over to their lab the other day, and it looks like they've made some progress so far.
Outside the lab is a large... bath, I guess, about thirty feet long. It has bags that span the length of it with algae growing in them. I forget how long he said it takes to grow the algae to full density, but when that's done they harvest it and keep a small amount in the bag to seed the next batch.
It's certainly still in the testing phase, and I have no idea of the costs so far, but they are producing a reasonable amount of high oil algae.
Meadmaker
Unregistered
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2004
- Messages
- 29,033
As far as I can tell, PetroSun is the biggest volume pilot project in the US. An Australian company has a big one, but I don't remember the name.
I just ran across a company that wasn't mentioned before, Originoil.
My take on this is that none of these companies have anything that is commercially viable today. Very much wishful thinking. On the other hand, what are the possibilities?
Fossil fuels will run out. Of that there can be no doubt, and easy to extract, cheap, fossil fuels are running out.
Nuclear has issues, and the fuel for nuke plants isn' unlimited either. Maybe nuclear will be the fuel source for tomorrow, but I'm not seeing it. Of course, if someone harnesses fusion, all bets are off, but I don't see that happening.
That leaves some variation of solar power as the next wave. Photovoltaic or direct thermal methods (like heating air to generate wind that turns turbines) could work, or we can use plants to harvest the sunlight for us.
Cholorophyll doesn't seem like an overly efficient method of capturing sunlight and using the rest of the cell's machinery to make hydrocarbons, but the process is easy enough to understand. Among plant based energy sources, algae seems best to me. That doesn't mean it's good enough, but it does mean that it's better than the alternative plant sources, or so it seems to me.
I just ran across a company that wasn't mentioned before, Originoil.
My take on this is that none of these companies have anything that is commercially viable today. Very much wishful thinking. On the other hand, what are the possibilities?
Fossil fuels will run out. Of that there can be no doubt, and easy to extract, cheap, fossil fuels are running out.
Nuclear has issues, and the fuel for nuke plants isn' unlimited either. Maybe nuclear will be the fuel source for tomorrow, but I'm not seeing it. Of course, if someone harnesses fusion, all bets are off, but I don't see that happening.
That leaves some variation of solar power as the next wave. Photovoltaic or direct thermal methods (like heating air to generate wind that turns turbines) could work, or we can use plants to harvest the sunlight for us.
Cholorophyll doesn't seem like an overly efficient method of capturing sunlight and using the rest of the cell's machinery to make hydrocarbons, but the process is easy enough to understand. Among plant based energy sources, algae seems best to me. That doesn't mean it's good enough, but it does mean that it's better than the alternative plant sources, or so it seems to me.
Minimizing heat waste is the ticket. Algae have an advantge over other plants because they needn't spend energy on developing much structure. A crop can be produced in one day. In conjunction with fossil fuel plants, the CO2 from the oxidation of fossil fuels can be used to accelerate the algae growth, somewhat nuetralizing the carbon footprint.
casebro
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2005
- Messages
- 19,788
I just talked to an employee of Kelco. They make agar from algae. They grow the algae in 45,000 gallon vessels. Much plumbing needed, and cooling towers, even though it's not grown in the sun. Then they sell their best agar for $40 per pound- about $280 per gallon, if it were oil? Anyhow, Kelco knows how to grow algae, and they are NOT in the oil market. Hmm, I didn't ask if their processing leaves an oil by product. Or what energy or food supports the algae growth, but yeast doesn't need sunlight, just sugar.
Puppycow
Penultimate Amazing
