Andrews Air Force Base on 9/11

[Drudgewire]

This report is even further confirmation Andrews is ready to rock at a moments notice. In fact proof

A quick googling found the first source for that story is prison planet. The second source is from the St. Petersburg Times, a REAL newspaper, who bothered to date the story (Nov. 11, 2003).

Comparing policy post-9/11 to what was in place prior to the attacks is so ing willfully dishonest it would be impossible for anyone with an ounce of morality to sleep at night after passing it off.

Something tells me both you and Alex will sleep just fine tonight.

 

[roundhead]

Yes, you're quite right. After 9/11 fighters were placed on alert at Andrews and other sites, and so in 2003, when this occurred, they were called on to carry out the intercept. But before 9/11 there were no planes on alert at Andrews.

If you honestly think the above scenario wasnt capable of happening pre 9/11 that the restricted air space differed, and that Andrews didnt have interceptors with the same time to intercept capable, you need to be sheared twice a year.

You truly believe that nonsense you posted. You think the White House is EVER not capable of being screened almost immediately. Your beyond hope if you think that, and i will pray for you.

Andrews has two fighter squadrons and full time employees there for the very reason i posted.
I know for a fact fighters fly in and out of Andrews night and day, every day. They are constantly vigilant and ready.
My uncle lives in DC and is a retired postal official. He has told me in the past that base is a beehive of activity and actually annoying.

 

[pomeroo]

... and of course the "classic":

minutes before pentagon-crash, 9:37 a.m.:

According to Mineta an unidentified, young man comes to Cheney and says:
“The plane is 50 miles out.”
Mineta confers with Belger, who is at the headquarters: ”We are watching this target on the radar (…).” The young man continues to update Cheney:
“The plan is 30 miles out”
and when he gets down to
“The plane is 10 miles out” he asks Cheney: “Do the orders still stand?” In response Cheney: “Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?”

9/11 Commission, 5/23/2003

Yes, it is classic stupidity by an ineducable twoofer.

They were, as has been explained hundreds of times, talking about Flight 93, which unbeknownst to anyone present, had already crashed. There was no plane headed toward Washington, D.C. The orders were the shoot-down orders Cheney had received from Bush. If Cheney was allowing a hijacked (uh, by whom?) plane to crash into a government building, he was publicly confessing his complicity in a monstrous crime. No reporter anywhere in the world smelled a story here.

Give it up!

 

[MikeW]

Andrews has two fighter squadrons and full time employees there for the very reason i posted. I know for a fact fighters fly in and out of Andrews night and day, every day. They are constantly vigilant and ready. My uncle lives in DC and is a retired postal official. He has told me in the past that base is a beehive of activity and actually annoying.

They have fighters there. Who has said otherwise? But they were not on NORAD-type 15 minute alert. And all your personal incredulity won't change that.

 

[lapman]

So, because it wasnt a Norad base, it wasnt used. That laughable.

This shows that you have zero idea of how the military works.

When you consider its proximity to the Capitol, i would be EXTREMELY surprised if that base wasnt in fcat ready to deal with any national emergency in the Capitol at a moments notice.

Give one reason why it should? How many times, prior to 9/11, was the DC area in imminent danger of an air attack that would requre Andrews to keep aircraft armed, manned and ready to fly in a moments notice?

As i posted initially, fighters actually WERE scrambled from there, so Norad or not, a call was in fact made there for help.It seems resonable that the call was made because Andrews WAS capable of immediate help, otherwise, why call at all.

You completely ignore the "after they were armed" porting of the event. They did not have any aircraft armed and ready. They don't keep ordinance out in the open near the aircraft waiting to be loaded.

I would be curious as to exactly when Andrews was called to scramble and how long it took them to have the reported assets they had over the Capitol area.

Here you go:

After 9:03 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Secret Service Wants Fighters Scrambled from Andrews; None Are Ready to Fly

A few minutes after 9:03 a.m., a squadron pilot at Andrews Air Force Base, Maryland (just ten miles from Washington), hears that two planes have crashed into the WTC. He calls a friend in the Secret Service to see what’s going on. The Secret Service calls back, and asks whether Andrews can scramble fighters. According to weapons officer, Major Dan Caine, who takes this call, the Secret Service agent then tells them “to stand by and that somebody else [will] call.” Apparently anticipating the need to launch fighters, one commander has already started preparing weapons for the fighters. However, the weapons are located in a bunker on the other side of the base, and the process takes time. Senior Master Sergeant David Bowman, 113th Wing munitions supervisor, says, “We were doing it as fast as we could, because for all we knew the terrorists were getting ready to hit us.” It normally takes three hours to get weapons from the storage sheds and load them onto the fighters. However, on this occasion, it is later claimed, it only takes 45 minutes. The fighters don’t take off though for about another hour and a half (see (10:42 a.m.) September 11, 2001). Whilst the crew at Andrews are unloading missiles onto a flatbed trailer, Dan Caine answers another phone call from someone in the White House, requesting armed fighters over Washington. Caine says: “I could hear plain as day the vice president talking in the background. That’s basically where we got the execute order. It was ‘VFR (Visual Flight Rules) direct.’” Meanwhile, there are also three unarmed F-16 fighters assigned to the Andrews base on a training mission 207 miles to the south in North Carolina. These are not recalled until much later, and don’t reach Washington until 10:45 a.m. [Aviation Week and Space Technology, 9/9/2002; Filson, 2004, pp. 78,84] NORAD commander Major General Larry Arnold has said, “We [didn’t] have any aircraft on alert at Andrews.” [MSNBC, 9/23/2001] However, prior to 9/11, the District of Columbia Air National Guard [DCANG] based at Andrews had a publicly stated mission “to provide combat units in the highest possible state of readiness.” Prior to 9/11, the mission statement was posted on the DC National Guard’s public website. Shortly after 9/11, this mission statement is removed and replaced by a DCANG “vision” to “provide peacetime command and control and administrative mission oversight to support customers, DCANG units, and NGB in achieving the highest levels of readiness.” [District of Columbia Air National Guard, n.d.]

Seemingly, if one is to believe the tale about only 14 interceptors TOTAL, that Andrews would have been considered right away, as a way to reinforce what assets that were vaailable.

In other words, if you are in a crowded pool and drowning, and the only available lifeguard is busy saving somebody else, or otherwise incapacitated it would make sense to holler at somebody nearby that can swim, rather than wait for the lifeguard to get to you. Especially in a life and death situation, which was the case on 9/11.

What a ridiculous analogy. Further proof that that you are bereft of any knowledge of how the military works. Military bases don't just launch aircraft just because they think they need to. They can pre-emptively get ready, but can't do anything until they get the order, unless the base itself is being attacked, which was not the case on 9/11. Even if they were able to launch aircraft, there still is no way that they would have been able to find, ID, track, lock on and fire in less than two minutes. That may work in "Top Gun," but not in real life.

 

[pomeroo]

Yes, you're quite right. After 9/11 fighters were placed on alert at Andrews and other sites, and so in 2003, when this occurred, they were called on to carry out the intercept. But before 9/11 there were no planes on alert at Andrews.

Without seeing your refutation of LastChild/roundhead's falsehood, the absence of a date told me everything I needed to know. The conspiracy liar was deliberately concealing the information that gave away his deception. Yes, 9/11 changed the rules. So, when someone knowingly tries to pass off a post-9/11 incident as an example of the conditions in effect before that terrible day, we understand that he is not merely wrong: he is a LIAR.

 

[pomeroo]

Why did you leave the date off?

He left off the date because he is a liar, one who has been caught often.

 

[roundhead]

9/11 did change the rules, you are quite correct.

It did indeed broaden the area of concern way further out.


BUT, prior to 9/11 there were STILL restriced areas not allowed to civilian craft, in fact the areas directly around the Capitol, White House, etc.

I suppose you guys are going to try and tell me this small off limits area was handled by Langley, not Andrews, right.

In other words, if some goofball in a small plane decided to drop a bomb on the White House in 2000, assets from Langley would have to be waited on to deal with it?

Total nonsense.

Langley is there and at the ready for exactly that quick, needed interception of that kind of threat, and has been for years.

No matter what kind of revisionist garbage you people seem to want to swallow.

 

[Sabrina]

9/11 did change the rules, you are quite correct.

It did indeed broaden the area of concern way further out.


BUT, prior to 9/11 there were STILL restriced areas not allowed to civilian craft, in fact the areas directly around the Capitol, White House, etc.

I suppose you guys are going to try and tell me this small off limits area was handled by Langley, not Andrews, right.

In other words, if some goofball in a small plane decided to drop a bomb on the White House in 2000, assets from Langley would have to be waited on to deal with it?

Total nonsense.

Langley is there and at the ready for exactly that quick, needed interception of that kind of threat, and has been for years.

No matter what kind of revisionist garbage you people seem to want to swallow.

Just wanted to point out the correctness of the bolded part of this post; good job, roundhead!

 

[roundhead]

The airspace in the NCR
has been placed under close surveillance and special flight restrictions primarily affecting
GA aircraft ever since September 11, 2001. Previously, the airspace around Washington,
DC was relatively open and accessible to GA as well as commercial aircraft. While the
airspace directly above some sensitive locations — like the White House and the Capitol
— was then and still is prohibited airspace (i.e., off-limits to all civil aircraft), this
comprised a relatively small portion of the total airspace in the NCR.


So there we have it, there were off limit areas before 9/11 and you people seem to think Langley would handle enforcement

 

[lapman]

If you honestly think the above scenario wasnt capable of happening pre 9/11 that the restricted air space differed, and that Andrews didnt have interceptors with the same time to intercept capable, you need to be sheared twice a year.

What restricted airspace did flight 77 fly into? And what was the size of the restricted airspace PRE-9/11?

You truly believe that nonsense you posted. You think the White House is EVER not capable of being screened almost immediately. Your beyond hope if you think that, and i will pray for you.

The fact that you twist time and space to "prove" your idiotic notions is proof that you are way beyond hope.

I know for a fact fighters fly in and out of Andrews night and day, every day. They are constantly vigilant and ready.
My uncle lives in DC and is a retired postal official. He has told me in the past that base is a beehive of activity and actually annoying.

Next time, actually take a look at the aircraft. You'll notice on important thing about most of them.
THEY ARE UNARMED. The majority of the time, they are practicing touch and goes, are being deployed to other bases or are going on training missions and they are armed with the specific ordinance required for the training. Prior to 9/11, they did not have fully armed aircraft flying around just in case there is an attack originating from within the continental US. Name one time, prior to 9/11, that there was an attack by air on the US that originated from within the US?

 

[MarkyX]

What's really funny is all these 9/11 deniers say there was a stand down..

Yet not a single pilot or anyone in the military who was involved that day never said anything. Even Norman doesn't believe there was a stand down and doesn't doubt what happened on 9/11

 

[roundhead]

Do you drive your car everywhere at top speed? Must be hell on mileage.

Hey, when is the last time you saw an ambulance on the way to a bad accident doing 55 with no lights on


If i was a poor soul on 77, i would like to think help was coming at full speed. I can imagine a guy like Burlingame rolling in his grave if he knew help was coming at 300 knots

 

[MikeW]

I suppose you guys are going to try and tell me this small off limits area was handled by Langley, not Andrews, right.

That's what the evidence says.

Airman magazine in 1999:

The Air National Guard exclusively performs the air sovereignty mission in the continental United States, and those units fall under the control of the 1st Air Force based at Tyndall. The Guard maintains seven alert sites with 14 fighters and pilots on call around the clock. Besides Homestead, alert birds also sit armed and ready at Tyndall; Langley AFB, Va.; Otis Air National Guard Base, Mass.; Portland International Airport, Ore.; March ARB, Calif.; and Ellington Field, Texas.
http://www.af.mil/news/airman/1299/home2.htm

And after 9/11, things changed:

Changes to Norad defence strategy as a result of Sept. 11:

- Norad now monitors 40,000 daily flights, adding domestic flights to the 7,000 international flights it formerly tracked.

- New computers in Norad headquarters Command Centre identify every internal North American flight.

- Federal Aviation Administration officials moved into the Command Centre in Cheyenne Mountain, Colo., to liaise round the clock with Norad.

- Now 100 fighter jets stand on constant alert as opposed to 14 in North America prior to Sept. 11.

- No inflight problem is considered routine. Fighter jets now scramble to "babysit" suspect aircraft several times daily as opposed to one or so a week before the attacks.

- About a dozen Norad mobile radars have been moved across the U.S. to expand the ability to monitor home skies.
http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/planes/analysis/norad/calgaryherald101301_scrables.html

You can moan all you like about how "unbelievable" that is, but your personal incredulity is evidence of nothing at all.

 

[beachnut]

I was on active duty on 9/11, the stand down is the dumbest idea I have ever heard. This tread is as good as your supersonic U-2.

You lack the knowledge and the logic to make rational conclusion on 9/11.
If you had more time, I mean after 6 years, could you do better?

 

[roundhead]

He left off the date because he is a liar, one who has been caught often.

Liar...i have showed the mission statement of Andrews 9/11, its obvious ability post 9/11. And the fact that no fly zones existed before and after 9/11I think its more than fair to state Andrews is and was the enforcement arm of ANY no fly zone before and after 9/11. In spite of the poor arguement being made it wasnt.

Frankly, weapons loaded or not, it would still have been a deterrent to 77, even if ramming it was a decision to be made. And i am far from convinced a ready aircraft in the Capitol area did have some sort of ordenance aboard.

All this, its never happened before stuff isnt convincing. The Titanic was unsinkable, but it carried lifeboats.

We have never had nukes fired on us, but spend billions in defense of them.

 

[fullflavormenthol]

You can always tell those people who are completely ignorant about the military, by their assumption that every base with fighters can launch them at a moments notice. You have to have pilots waiting there, you have to have them armed with the right ordinance. Just these two alone are huge things. Arming a fighter isn't like attaching missiles to your G.I. Joe jet plane, and unlike G.I. Joe, not every soldier can just hop into any vehicle and go beat up on Cobra.

 

[tsig]

The airspace in the NCR
has been placed under close surveillance and special flight restrictions primarily affecting
GA aircraft ever since September 11, 2001. Previously, the airspace around Washington,
DC was relatively open and accessible to GA as well as commercial aircraft. While the
airspace directly above some sensitive locations — like the White House and the Capitol
— was then and still is prohibited airspace (i.e., off-limits to all civil aircraft), this
comprised a relatively small portion of the total airspace in the NCR.


So there we have it, there were off limit areas before 9/11 and you people seem to think Langley would handle enforcement

Why not?

Two minutes off the ground then at 1500 mph looks like a piece of cake to me.

 

[fullflavormenthol]

Frankly, weapons loaded or not, it would still have been a deterrent to 77, even if ramming it was a decision to be made. And i am far from convinced a ready aircraft in the Capitol area did have some sort of ordenance aboard.

Yeah, because a fighter is like a police car. You do understand what would happen if you rammed a fighter into a commercial airliner don't you? The simple fact that you made such an incredibly stupid statement shows a disconnect from reality or complete ignorance. I don't know which it is.

 

[Par]

Yes, you're quite right. After 9/11 fighters were placed on alert at Andrews and other sites, and so in 2003, when this occurred, they were called on to carry out the intercept. But before 9/11 there were no planes on alert at Andrews.

If you honestly think the above scenario wasnt capable of happening pre 9/11 that the restricted air space differed, and that Andrews didnt have interceptors with the same time to intercept capable, you need to be sheared twice a year. You truly believe that nonsense you posted... Your beyond hope if you think that, and i will pray for you.

... Total nonsense... No matter what kind of revisionist garbage you people seem to want to swallow.

That's what the evidence says. Airman magazine in 1999:... And after 9/11, things changed:....

So within the space of a handful posts, the supposed evidence is straightforwardly shown to be deceptive, counterevidence is adduced and “Roundhead” reduced to shrieking ad hominem and personal incredulity.