Andrews Air Force Base on 9/11

roundhead

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There seems to be quite a debate regarding the ability and mission of Andrews on 9/11.
I am of the opinion a military standdown was in effect on that day, and assets capable of intercepting highjacked planes were either downplayed, not called into action on a timely basis, or intentionally sent the wrong way.

Andrews Air Force base has a web site which seems to clearly state its mission objective and capabilities (Pre 9/11)

My intent here is to deal with flight 77, and its reason for not being intercepted prior to impacting the Pentagon at roughly 9:37 on 9/11.

First some details regarding Andrews.

It is in close proximity to the White House, the Capitol, and the Pentagon. It is the official airport of the US Government.

It is and has been used for takeoffs and landings of foreign heads of state and dignitaries. In short, it can be said it is a vitally important installation.
Langley is 129 miles away.

This was on the Andrews website in April of 2001:

DCANG MISSION

To provide combat units in the highest

possible state of readiness. We will support

the Air Force and other DOD agencies. We

will provide operational support to our

local communities whenever possible.


DCANG is the District of Columbia Air National Guard and was equipped with F16 fighters, which according to the mission statement were"in the highest possible state of readiness".

Andrews was also, at that time, home to the F/A -18 Hornet, flown by Marine fighter attack squadron 321, and "Marine Aviation Logistics Squadron 49, Detachment A, provides maintenance and supply functions necessary to maintain a force in readiness. " [DC Military]

F16's have a "published" top spped of 1500MPH, so an intercept even 130 miles out could be accomplished in well under 6 minutes at top speed.

Published reports place the time of flight 77 having its transponder turned off as 8:56 on the morning of 9/11.

The FAA seems to have several rules, if not more, in place to deal with emergencies:

According to the FAA manual, an aircraft emergency exists "when there is unexpected loss of radar contact and radio communication with any aircraft" [FAA Order 7110.65M]

"Emergency Determinations: If... you are in doubt that a situation constitutes an emergency or potential emergency, handle it as though it were an emergency." [FAA Order 7110.65M]

These seem very straightforward and easily understood.

Several other statements that seem to back up the state of readiness, and also that fighters there were actually scrambled

"Air defense around Washington is provided mainly by fighter planes from Andrews Air Force Base in Maryland near the District of Columbia border. The D.C. Air National Guard is also based there and equipped with F-16 fighter planes, a National Guard spokesman said. But the fighters took to the skies over Washington only after the devastating attack on the Pentagon..." [San Diego Union-Tribune 9/12/01]

It was after the attack on the Pentagon that the Air Force then decided to scramble F-16s out of the DC National Guard Andrews Air Force Base to fly cover, a--a protective cover over Washington, DC." [NBC Nightly News 9/11/01]

"A few moments [after the Pentagon attack] ... overhead, fighter jets scrambled from Andrews Air Force Base and other installations." [Denver Post, 9/11/01

These reports and the Base mission statements seem to confirm that fighters were there, were at a high state of readiness, and actually were scrambled on 9/11.

Now, the 10 million dollar question is, obviously, why after reports state that 77 had transponder turned off at 8:56, did these "in the highest state of readiness F16's not intercept 77 having 45 minutes to do so.

Allowing even 10 minutes from a call to scramble to being airborn (erring on the side of moderation) did these units not intercept 77 with an eternity to do so.

We know, according to Cheney that the secret service had open lines of communication with the FAA at 8:45(impact of flight 11) So its not a stretch that by 8:56 with 77 turning off transponder, and already an impact, that a terrorist attack was in progress.

At 9:06 Washington notified all facilities(air control) that 77 had been highjacked.

It is unfathonable that with all the time in the world considering the 1500mph capability of ready aircraft only 10 miles from the Pentagon that these assets werent scrabled by 9:10 at the latest, if not sooner. If for no other reason than to provide an umbrella over DC and all the vital targets in the vicinity. As by this time two attacks had already taken place by rogue, highjacked aircraft.

Its hard not to come to the conclusion (when the above information is considered, along with the testimony of Mineta involving an incoming plane, and Cheney's baffling statements regarding it)that a military standown wasnt ordered, and likely by Cheney himself, at least as regards flight 77.
 
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... and of course the "classic":

minutes before pentagon-crash, 9:37 a.m.:

According to Mineta an unidentified, young man comes to Cheney and says:
“The plane is 50 miles out.”
Mineta confers with Belger, who is at the headquarters: ”We are watching this target on the radar (…).” The young man continues to update Cheney:
“The plan is 30 miles out”
and when he gets down to
“The plane is 10 miles out” he asks Cheney: “Do the orders still stand?” In response Cheney: “Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?”

9/11 Commission, 5/23/2003
 
That post is full of so much stupid that it's hard to find where to start.

Just go here to see how reliance on what the inept DRG is a stupid idea.
 
That post is full of so much stupid that it's hard to find where to start.

Just go here to see how reliance on what the inept DRG is a stupid idea.

Griffin has nothing to do with this thread.

I would appreciate you offering any info that would refute my original post, and frankly, nothing else has any interest to me.
 
Griffin has nothing to do with this thread.

I would appreciate you offering any info that would refute my original post, and frankly, nothing else has any interest to me.
You are parroting Griffin's false conclusions. So, he has everything to do with it.
 
"Readiness" is a specific military term, defined here:

\1 Readiness status of a unit is reported by assigning "C" levels
that are defined as follows: C-1--Unit can undertake the full
wartime mission for which it is organized or designed. C-2--Unit can
undertake the bulk of its wartime mission. C-3--Unit can undertake
major portions of its wartime mission. C-4--Unit requires additional
resources and/or training to undertake its wartime mission, but if
the situation dictates, it may be required to undertake portions of
the mission with resources on hand. C-5--Unit is undergoing a
service-directed resource change and is not prepared to undertake its
wartime mission.
http://www.fas.org/man/gao/ns96111.htm

To be in the "highest state of readiness" means to be fully manned, with properly trained personnel, well-maintained equipment and stocks of spares in case you need to head off abroad. It does not mean maintaining pilots on 15-minute alert 24/7.
 
Important info from Mike's site:

9/11 Myths site said:
On 9/11 NORAD attempted to protect Washington by scrambling fighters from Langley Air Force Base. This was ineffective, though, and questions were raised almost immediately about the decision. Why, it was asked, didn't they launch fighters from the much closer Andrews Air Force Base, instead?

The 9/11 Commission provided a simple answer: Andrews was not a NORAD base. The closest fighters on alert in the area were based at Langley.

All the hijacked aircraft were in one of NORAD’s Continental U.S. sectors, the Northeast Air Defense Sector (also known as NEADS). NEADS is based in Rome, New York. On 9/11, it could call on two alert sites, each with one pair of ready fighters. These were the 2 Otis Air National Guard Base in Cape Cod, Massachusetts and Langley Air Force Base in Langley, Virginia.
9/11 Commission Staff Statement 17

http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Andrews_Air_Force_Base
 
You quote this:
Several other statements that seem to back up the state of readiness, and also that fighters there were actually scrambled

"Air defense around Washington is provided mainly by fighter planes from Andrews Air Force Base in Maryland near the District of Columbia border. The D.C. Air National Guard is also based there and equipped with F-16 fighter planes, a National Guard spokesman said. But the fighters took to the skies over Washington only after the devastating attack on the Pentagon..." [San Diego Union-Tribune 9/12/01]

It was after the attack on the Pentagon that the Air Force then decided to scramble F-16s out of the DC National Guard Andrews Air Force Base to fly cover, a--a protective cover over Washington, DC." [NBC Nightly News 9/11/01]

"A few moments [after the Pentagon attack] ... overhead, fighter jets scrambled from Andrews Air Force Base and other installations." [Denver Post, 9/11/01

And then you turn around and try to say this?
These reports and the Base mission statements seem to confirm that fighters were there, were at a high state of readiness, and actually were scrambled on 9/11.

No, they don't. They confirm that the response was ad-hoc and hurried.

And again, you ignore the fact that there needed to be a handoff from the FAA/ATC's to NEADS before the military was even aware of the problem.

I'm sorry if this comes across as hectoring; I don't mean for it to appear that way. Rather, I'm just trying to get the proper information to you. But, you really need to read the Vanity Fair article as well as Gumboot's work. You keep making the same mistakes regarding the response. Andrew Burfield (Gumboot) laid out the information some time ago.

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2006/08/norad200608
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2795968&postcount=396
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70300
 
after the second crash, everybody knew: America is under attack. A lot commanders ringed the NEADS, offering planes:

9:03 am: From Syracuse, New York, a commander of the 174th Fighter Wing of the New York Air National Guard calls and tells NEADS commander Robert Marr: “Give me ten [minutes] and I can give you hot guns. Give me 30 [minutes] and I’ll have heat-seeker [missiles]. Give me an hour and I can give you slammers [Amraams].” Aviation Week and Space Technology, 6/3/2002; News 10 Now, 9/12/2006

Do you really think seriously, that the Andrews Air Force Base was just slower than the base in Syracuse? Andrews Air Force Base protected the white house and the pentagon, so I can assume, that Andrews Air Force Base must have been faster than other bases, or?

However, according to another account, NORAD does not accept the offers until about an hour later. Toledo Blade, 12/9/2001
 


So, because it wasnt a Norad base, it wasnt used. Thats laughable. And very unconvincing.

When you consider its proximity to the Capitol, i would be EXTREMELY surprised if that base wasnt in fact ready to deal with any national emergency in the Capitol at a moments notice. Why be there with that many units with Langley only 129 miles away. Redundancy, or in fact, closer and able to respond quicker due to the proximity. I would hate to think that if a foreign dignitary was faced with his plane being highjacked after flying from Andrews home, he would wait for help from Langley, and not from Andrews. That makes no sense at all. And i cant imagine that scenario hasnt been thought of by people other than me.

As i posted initially, fighters actually WERE scrambled from there, so Norad or not, a call was in fact made there for help.It seems resonable that the call was made because Andrews WAS capable of immediate help, otherwise, why call at all.

I would be curious as to exactly when Andrews was called to scramble and how long it took them to have the reported assets they had over the Capitol area. I havent found a response time from when Andrews was called and how long it took to have assets over DC. But i will bet money it wasnt half an hour(BTW, still plenty of time)

Seemingly, if one is to believe the tale about only 14 interceptors TOTAL, then Andrews would have been considered right away, as a way to reinforce what assets that were available.

In other words, if you are in a crowded pool and drowning, and the only available lifeguard is busy saving somebody else, or otherwise incapacitated it would make sense to holler at somebody nearby that can swim, rather than wait for the lifeguard to get to you. Especially in a life and death situation, which was the case on 9/11.
 
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Bio and roundhead, if Andrews is so critical and so poised to defend the Capitol at a moment's notice, why does Bio's own quote prove that it would take them 30 mins to an hour to launch a capable jet?
 
after the second crash, everybody knew: America is under attack. A lot commanders ringed the NEADS, offering planes:

9:03 am: From Syracuse, New York, a commander of the 174th Fighter Wing of the New York Air National Guard calls and tells NEADS commander Robert Marr: “Give me ten [minutes] and I can give you hot guns. Give me 30 [minutes] and I’ll have heat-seeker [missiles]. Give me an hour and I can give you slammers [Amraams].” Aviation Week and Space Technology, 6/3/2002; News 10 Now, 9/12/2006

Do you really think seriously, that the Andrews Air Force Base was just slower than the base in Syracuse? Andrews Air Force Base protected the white house and the pentagon, so I can assume, that Andrews Air Force Base must have been faster than other bases, or?

However, according to another account, NORAD does not accept the offers until about an hour later. Toledo Blade, 12/9/2001

So, because it wasnt a Norad base, it wasnt used. That laughable.

When you consider its proximity to the Capitol, i would be EXTREMELY surprised if that base wasnt in fact ready to deal with any national emergency in the Capitol at a moments notice. Why be there with that many units with Langley only 129 miles away. Redundancy, or in fact, closer and able to respond quicker due to the proximity. I would hate to think that if a foreign dignitary was faced with his plane being highjacked after flying from Andrews home, he would wait for help from Langley, and not from Andrews. That makes no sense at all. And i cant imagine that scenario hasnt been thought of by people other than me.

As i posted initially, fighters actually WERE scrambled from there, so Norad or not, a call was in fact made there for help.It seems resonable that the call was made because Andrews WAS capable of immediate help, otherwise, why call at all.

I would be curious as to exactly when Andrews was called to scramble and how long it took them to have the reported assets they had over the Capitol area.

Seemingly, if one is to believe the tale about only 14 interceptors TOTAL, that Andrews would have been considered right away, as a way to reinforce what assets that were vaailable.

In other words, if you are in a crowded pool and drowning, and the only available lifeguard is busy saving somebody else, or otherwise incapacitated it would make sense to holler at somebody nearby that can swim, rather than wait for the lifeguard to get to you. Especially in a life and death situation, which was the case on 9/11.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1845150&postcount=1
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70300
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/747496/posts

Read the links. The information is there for you to learn from. If you two would quit oversimplifying and actually comprehend what the issues were that day, your questions would be answered. Would you two please read the information we're giving you?

roundhead said:
I would be curious as to exactly when Andrews was called to scramble and how long it took them to have the reported assets they had over the Capitol area.

The Andrews-based 121st Fighter Sqdn. was not standing alert on Sept. 11, because the District of Columbia Air National Guard (DCANG) unit was not assigned to the North American Aerospace Defense Command air defense force. Norad had already scrambled three F-16s from their alert base at Langley AFB, Va., but they were about 12 min. from Washington when the Pentagon was struck at 9:37 a.m. (AW&ST June 3, p. 48). The 121st squadron's day had started normally. Three F-16s were flying an air-to-ground training mission on a range in North Carolina, 180 naut. mi. away. At Andrews, several officers were in a scheduling meeting when they received word that the World Trade Center had been hit by an aircraft. Minutes later, after United Airlines Flight 175 slammed into the second WTC tower, a squadron pilot called a friend in the Secret Service "to see what was going on. He was told some bad things were happening. At that time, we weren't thinking about defending anything. Our primary concern was what would happen to the air traffic system," said Lt. Col. Marc H. (Sass) Sasseville, the current 121st FS commander. On Sept. 11, he was the director of operations and air operations officer--the acting operations group commander under the 113th Wing.

The information you need is in the links we've been providing. Please read them. You're not up to date on your information.
 
This report is even further confirmation Andrews is ready to rock at a moments notice. In fact proof


Associated Press

WASHINGTON - Air Force fighter jets scrambled Monday to intercept a private plane that flew too close to the White House, triggering a security scare that led Vice President Dick Cheney and President Bush's chief of staff to be moved to a secure location.

The plane was later determined not to be a threat. The president was away at the time, on a trip to Arkansas and South Carolina, and his wife, Laura, had a speaking engagement in Maine.

Cheney and White House chief of staff Andrew Card were moved temporarily as a precautionary measure, said presidential spokesman Scott McClellan. They resumed their normal routines soon thereafter, said McClellan, who was with Bush in Little Rock, Ark.

The privately owned plane was detected flying down the Potomac River toward Washington when it entered restricted airspace, said Secret Service spokeswoman Jean Mitchell.

The fighters were scrambled from nearby Andrews Air Force in Maryland and they intercepted the plane, escorting it out of the area, she said.

"He was within eight miles" of the White House, she said. "It's enough to affect our emergency response plan." Armed officers took up positions on the White House lawn during the incident.

The Air Force jets peeled off when the plane left restricted airspace but it was tracked on radar until it landed in Siler City, N.C., for refueling, said Dan Dluzneski, another Secret Service spokesman. The pilot allowed authorities to search the plane, and told Secret Service officers that he had been unable to contact the fighter jets.

"As far as the Secret Service is concerned, it's closed," said Dluzneski. He said the pilot had purchased the plane and had it serviced in Pennsylvania over the weekend and was flying it to Florida. "He thought he was abiding by the flight restrictions. Obviously he was not," Dluzneski said. He declined to identify the pilot.

Maj. Douglas Martin, spokesman for the North American Aerospace Defense Command, or NORAD, said it had been determined the plane was not a threat.

"From the NORAD perspective, he's not a threat, and that's the main thing for us," Martin said.

The plane apparently strayed within the Air Defense Identification Zone, roughly a 23-mile radius around Washington, according to Les Dorr, spokesman for the Federal Aviation Administration.




Note......The restricted airspace is 23 miles, the plane got within 8 miles and was intercepted from Andrews, with obviously no heads up. They had heads up on 9/11 WAY before 77 hit.
 
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So, because it wasnt a Norad base, it wasnt used. Thats laughable. And very unconvincing.

When you consider its proximity to the Capitol, i would be EXTREMELY surprised if that base wasnt in fact ready to deal with any national emergency in the Capitol at a moments notice. Why be there with that many units with Langley only 129 miles away. Redundancy, or in fact, closer and able to respond quicker due to the proximity. I would hate to think that if a foreign dignitary was faced with his plane being highjacked after flying from Andrews home, he would wait for help from Langley, and not from Andrews. That makes no sense at all. And i cant imagine that scenario hasnt been thought of by people other than me.

As i posted initially, fighters actually WERE scrambled from there, so Norad or not, a call was in fact made there for help.It seems resonable that the call was made because Andrews WAS capable of immediate help, otherwise, why call at all.

I would be curious as to exactly when Andrews was called to scramble and how long it took them to have the reported assets they had over the Capitol area. I havent found a response time from when Andrews was called and how long it took to have assets over DC. But i will bet money it wasnt half an hour(BTW, still plenty of time)

Seemingly, if one is to believe the tale about only 14 interceptors TOTAL, then Andrews would have been considered right away, as a way to reinforce what assets that were available.

In other words, if you are in a crowded pool and drowning, and the only available lifeguard is busy saving somebody else, or otherwise incapacitated it would make sense to holler at somebody nearby that can swim, rather than wait for the lifeguard to get to you. Especially in a life and death situation, which was the case on 9/11.

yep if I'm running the Airbase I'm going to scramble my aircraft without any command authority to intercept an airliner I do not know is hijacked in an unknown direction.

Of course when the call comes in with the real info and my aircraft are out of fuel and in the wrong direction I can see those chickens flying off my shoulders.
 
This report is even further confirmation Andrews is ready to rock at a moments notice. In fact proof
Yes, you're quite right. After 9/11 fighters were placed on alert at Andrews and other sites, and so in 2003, when this occurred, they were called on to carry out the intercept. But before 9/11 there were no planes on alert at Andrews.
 
This report is even further confirmation Andrews is ready to rock at a moments notice. In fact proof


Associated Press

WASHINGTON - Air Force fighter jets scrambled Monday to intercept a private plane that flew too close to the White House, triggering a security scare that led Vice President Dick Cheney and President Bush's chief of staff to be moved to a secure location....

Why did you leave the date off?
 
This report is even further confirmation Andrews is ready to rock at a moments notice. In fact proof


Associated Press

WASHINGTON - Air Force fighter jets scrambled Monday to intercept a private plane that flew too close to the White House, triggering a security scare that led Vice President Dick Cheney and President Bush's chief of staff to be moved to a secure location.

The plane was later determined not to be a threat. The president was away at the time, on a trip to Arkansas and South Carolina, and his wife, Laura, had a speaking engagement in Maine.

Cheney and White House chief of staff Andrew Card were moved temporarily as a precautionary measure, said presidential spokesman Scott McClellan. They resumed their normal routines soon thereafter, said McClellan, who was with Bush in Little Rock, Ark.

The privately owned plane was detected flying down the Potomac River toward Washington when it entered restricted airspace, said Secret Service spokeswoman Jean Mitchell.

The fighters were scrambled from nearby Andrews Air Force in Maryland and they intercepted the plane, escorting it out of the area, she said.

"He was within eight miles" of the White House, she said. "It's enough to affect our emergency response plan." Armed officers took up positions on the White House lawn during the incident.

The Air Force jets peeled off when the plane left restricted airspace but it was tracked on radar until it landed in Siler City, N.C., for refueling, said Dan Dluzneski, another Secret Service spokesman. The pilot allowed authorities to search the plane, and told Secret Service officers that he had been unable to contact the fighter jets.

"As far as the Secret Service is concerned, it's closed," said Dluzneski. He said the pilot had purchased the plane and had it serviced in Pennsylvania over the weekend and was flying it to Florida. "He thought he was abiding by the flight restrictions. Obviously he was not," Dluzneski said. He declined to identify the pilot.

Maj. Douglas Martin, spokesman for the North American Aerospace Defense Command, or NORAD, said it had been determined the plane was not a threat.

"From the NORAD perspective, he's not a threat, and that's the main thing for us," Martin said.

The plane apparently strayed within the Air Defense Identification Zone, roughly a 23-mile radius around Washington, according to Les Dorr, spokesman for the Federal Aviation Administration.




Note......The restricted airspace is 23 miles, the plane got within 8 miles and was intercepted from Andrews, with obviously no heads up. They had heads up on 9/11 WAY before 77 hit.

The rules changed after 911.
 
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1845150&postcount=1
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70300
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/747496/posts

Read the links. The information is there for you to learn from. If you two would quit oversimplifying and actually comprehend what the issues were that day, your questions would be answered. Would you two please read the information we're giving you?





The information you need is in the links we've been providing. Please read them. You're not up to date on your information.


The 12 minutes is an obvious lie, because fighters can cover that distance in less than 6 at full power, and why would they not be at full power.
 
The 12 minutes is an obvious lie, because fighters can cover that distance in less than 6 at full power, and why would they not be at full power.

Do you drive your car everywhere at top speed? Must be hell on mileage.
 
roundhead, have you ever BEEN to Andrews AFB? No? Until you have, I suggest you not spout off about things you know NOTHING about, kay? Thanks.
 

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