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Jesus In China

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DOC, I hope you're aware that Chinese tradition also involves a lot of silly superstitions, some way more stupid than the rest (and yes, I can say that because I know). The fact that these superstitions are still popular and have endured for so long-- does that prove anything?

Also, don't get the wrong idea, I'm not posting in your thread because your ideas are valid or your arguments are sound, however I'm not trying to attack you either.
 
Ah, what an excellent opportunity for the priests to teach them one of the trilingual pocket languages of the Lord Language Resurrection!

:boxedin:
 
DOC said:
Didn't the Roman Empire try to do the same thing 2000 years ago.
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Yep, and they succeeded. They co-opted Christianity and transformed it into a state religion that reinforced the imperial power structure.
 
DOC said:
Didn't the Roman Empire try to do the same thing 2000 years ago.
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Yes!... and I'm happy to tell you - they won! Xians didn't get really ensconced in other people's business until Constantine, 300 years later. Let's pray the Chinese can hold off the xians until 2308.
 
Jesus is everywhere, isn't he? Here, China, in the eye of a child... and even inside my cat's litterbox under a pile of poo.
 
DOC said:
Yes, and the Russian Communists tried to eradicate religion too when they took over. Yet, there have been several people in these threads say communism and atheism are not related for some reason.
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Really? Where has anyone claimed this? Many, myself included, have argued that Communism and atheism are not one in the same, but I have yet to see anyone argue that they are in no way related. They are related because Soviet style Communist regimes declared official atheism as a means of suppressing rival power systems in the form of religion. However a communist system could be implemented with an official theistic religion at its center, just as many atheists have no desire to suppress the religious freedom of others. Atheism and Communism are related in the sense that they have intersected in the past. But then Christianity and the Inquisitions are related in the same way. That does not mean that Christianity and the Inquisitions are one in the same any more than atheism and Communism are one in the same.
 
DOC,
You have stated in your various posts that the Europeans invading the Americas was good for the native population. Less wars, etc.

If the Chinese get behind jesus, I figure they'll have more prayers than the US.
God will obviously be on their side, and they can walk all over America.
This has to be a good thing. Less wars, etc.
Contrary to David Bowie's toungue in cheek observance, perhaps, god is not an american.
Oh well...
 
pchams said:
BTW, Wolfman, I thought you made an excellent post.
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Indeed. Wolfman's posts about China are always interesting; as a Westerner living in China he presents a POV most of us aren't really familiar with.

It's a shame it'll be completely lost on DOC.
 
There's a christian bookshop just around the corner from where I live.

I can't remember the last time I saw more than one person in it.

(Yes, I also live in China. I've lived here for two and a half years, and to date I've only met one Chinese christian)
 
So. Did any of you watch Frontline, or have you only gathered to piss on DOC's parade? I had to go in to work early so I missed it and didn't bother to tape it.
 
wollery said:
(Yes, I also live in China. I've lived here for two and a half years, and to date I've only met one Chinese christian)
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Well...much to my embarrassment, I originally came to China as...well...a Christian missionary. So am quite familiar with the Christian scene here.

In the cities, you tend to get "religious tourists"...Chinese who just try out different religions for the hell of it, but who don't take it terribly seriously...more an excuse for social intercourse, with the promise of eternal bliss thrown in for good measure.

In the countryside, it is a very different story. Religion is sweeping through rural communities like wildfire; and like I mentioned above, it is not just Christianity. In fact, Mormons are making phenomenal headway here, as all Mormons must 'volunteer' as missionaries for several years, and many of them are sent to China as English teachers (or in other capacities). Go to pretty much any school that has foreign English teachers, and odds are good that you're gonna' find at least one or two Mormons among them.

Another interesting factor that Christians tend to ignore, or be unaware of. Since there are very few trained theological leaders in the Chinese Christian community, a very high percentage of these new "Christian" churches would actually qualify more as cults (at least from a Christian perspective). They hold beliefs that most Christians would reject, or even hold as heretical. With nobody to guide them, this is pretty much inevitable, and a lot of these churches are ending up as a mish-mash of Christianity and other religions.
 
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Wolfman said:
Another interesting factor that Christians tend to ignore, or be unaware of. Since there are very few trained theological leaders in the Chinese Christian community, a very high percentage of these new "Christian" churches would actually qualify more as cults (at least from a Christian perspective). They hold beliefs that most Christians would reject, or even hold as heretical. With nobody to guide them, this is pretty much inevitable, and a lot of these churches are ending up as a mish-mash of Christianity and other religions.
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It's ironic that this is also a pretty good description of most Christian sects during the first couple of centuries of Christianity.
 
Foster Zygote said:
It's ironic that this is also a pretty good description of most Christian sects during the first couple of centuries of Christianity.
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Yup, it is a very similar process...and many of the same "heresies" are being developed. Will be interesting to see which particular doctrines gain prevalence within the Chinese context.
 
Wolfman said:
In the countryside, it is a very different story. Religion is sweeping through rural communities like wildfire; and like I mentioned above, it is not just Christianity. In fact, Mormons are making phenomenal headway here, as all Mormons must 'volunteer' as missionaries for several years, and many of them are sent to China as English teachers (or in other capacities). Go to pretty much any school that has foreign English teachers, and odds are good that you're gonna' find at least one or two Mormons among them.
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That seems about right.

While I worked at UPenn, there was a very high Russian immigrant population. We hung out frequently and it was a joke among them that anytime Mormons were brought up, someone would chime in, "Well, it is the fastest growing religion."
According to them, that was one of the common statements heard when encountering the numerous mormon missionaries they would run into in Russia.
 
MRC_Hans said:
Well, the thing is, Chinese are generally very pragmatic. So when they "turn to religion", they tend to do it in a practical way, that is, they adopt what is useful and generally ignore the rest. For instance, the Chinese (and Japanese, BTW) gleefully adopt Christmas as a nice opportunity for another celebration, but don't give a hoot about Jebus.
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grayman said:
DOC, have you ever heard of Rice Christians?
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On a related note, the last Chinese person I met was working in Japan, and from what I understood had joined a Chinese Christian church there. However, this seemed to be mainly to join a social group of people from her home country rather than out of any religious conviction.


<nitpick>
Foster Zygote said:
Many, myself included, have argued that Communism and atheism are not one in the same,
...
That does not mean that Christianity and the Inquisitions are one in the same any more than atheism and Communism are one in the same.
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...one and the same.
</nitpick>
 
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