The Sensitive Issue of Circumcision

Upchurch

Papa Funkosophy
Upchurch
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Earlier this week my wife and I found out that we are going to have a boy this October. As we shared the good news, we unknowingly ran smack dab into a debate with very passionate advocates on either side: Were we going to circumcise our son?

My wife and I had half-discussed it in the past, but it was still sort of a maybe-we-don't-have-to-deal-with-it issue so we didn't really invest any energy into it. My wife is taking the cowards way out* by saying that it has to do with penises, so it's my responsibility to decide.

So, I'm bringing the question to the board. I'm starting from a default position that the kid should not be circumcised. Does anyone have medical reasons why this is a good idea? Can anyone persuade me that this would be a mistake based on medical reasons?






* to be fair, I was planning on doing the same thing if we had a girl when it came to menstruation.
 
*WARNING* The feeling is strictly stuff I remember from previous reading and conversations; not anything that I can link or quote.

Circumcision can carried out once the kid is an adult, so if he desperately feels the need then, it can be done (however healing takes longer and, of course, he'll remember the pain!). The whole 'it's more hygenic!' thing only works for men who skimp on washing thoroughly - guys diligent enough to peel back the foreskin and have a scrub are as clean as circumcised guys. The foreskin is also full of nerve endings...

I'm not in favour of circumcision, but, as as I understand it most of the male population of the USA is circumcised, and they all seem to be enjoying themselves as much as the blokes here do.
 
So, here is what Wikipedia has to say on the topic:

# 3 Possible Complications of Circumcision

* 3.1 Immediate Complications
o 3.1.1 Herpes
* 3.2 Delayed Complications
* 3.3 Pain, stress, trauma, and interference with breastfeeding initiation
* 3.4 Emotional consequences

# 4 Possible protections gained by circumcision

* 4.1 Prostate cancer
* 4.2 Human Papilloma Virus (HPV)
* 4.3 HPV and cervical cancer
* 4.4 Penile cancer
o 4.4.1 Positions of medical organisations
* 4.5 Phimosis
* 4.6 Circumcision and Urinary tract infection (UTI)
* 4.7 Circumcision and HIV/AIDS
o 4.7.1 Randomised Controlled Trials
o 4.7.2 Langerhans cells and HIV transmission
* 4.8 Epididymitis in children
* 4.9 Penile problems in boys up to 8 years of age
* 4.10 Paraphimosis
* 4.11 Hygiene
* 4.12 Infectious and chronic conditions
* 4.13 Balanitis
* 4.14 Skin diseases
* 4.15 Other Sexually transmitted infections
Click to expand...
 
What tips the "debate" in favor of noncircumcision for me is that if it weren't necessary it wouldn't be there. To those inclined to blithely snip away, I pose this question: Why stop at the foreskin? Take the whole package away and live out the rest of your demented, tortured, and sadistic fantasies.


M.
 
Moochie said:
Can you think of any other parts of the human anatomy that, were they removed, may help prevent a plethora of ailments? I can think of quite a few!
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Appendix and wisdom teeth, I suppose. Although I still have both and am none the worse for wear.
 
Oh lord, not again.


Upchurch said:
Earlier this week my wife and I found out that we are going to have a boy this October.
Click to expand...


Mazel tov.


Does anyone have medical reasons why this is a good idea? Can anyone persuade me that this would be a mistake based on medical reasons?
Click to expand...


There is no medical evidence that infant circumcision has any overall negative or positive effect on a boy's long-term quality of life. And no matter what happens in this thread, that fact will never change.


Naughtyhippo said:
Circumcision can carried out once the kid is an adult, so if he desperately feels the need then, it can be done (however healing takes longer and, of course, he'll remember the pain!).
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Appologies to Naughtyhippo but this is very, very bad advice. The only reputable studies of ill effects from circumcision (and, for some reason many of them come from Korea) have to do with adult circumcision. Adult circumcision may lead to loss of sensation, loss of pleasure and psychological damage. None of these effects has ever been competently observed for infant circumcision.

Either have your son circumcised as a newborn or don't do it at all.

As Jews, my wife and I had both our sons circumcised by a mohel in our home. I found the procedure to be very quick (including prayers and aranging the baby, under ninety seconds - the cutting alone took about two seconds). I found the babies behaved completely normally and showed no sign of pain or discomfort within five minutes of the procedure.

Even so, there is no medical reason that I know of to prefer circumcision. If I were not Jewish, I would have chosen not to circumcise my sons.

In any case, congratulations and my best hopes for your wife and baby's continued good health.
 
I am more of a body rights person on this issue. I don't think parents should make permanent body modifications on their children unless it is a necessary medical procedure.

Yes, there are some studies showing that it may reduce the risk of HIV infection, but that doesn't fit my definition of a medically necessary procedure.

As there is a debate on the issue, and the medical evidence on the issue is a mixed bag, I would just wait until he can decide for himself.

I think the issue becomes so heated because there isn't really any strictly scientific answer, it is more a question of personal ideals which vary from person to person.

And congrats :) !
 
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I am very very glad that I have not had this done to me. And I would never mutilate any child of mine for the sake of a thousand year old religious ritual.
 
I hesitate to come into this debate because it is so complex. But I will say this: I am led to believe that this is a very common procedure in the USA and I was told that this was for hygiene reasons. It is very strange to me, because it is really quite rare here unless for religious reasons: so far as I am aware it is not done for other than religious or medical reasons and those medical reasons are a lot more serious than hygiene

I have also read that circumcision is helpful in reducing the incidence of cervical cancer but it is my belief that this difference vanishes with proper washing and if this is not correct then I am sure others will correct me.

I don't want to annoy anybody but would I be correct in thinking US doctors get a fee for doing this? Could that be relevant? Just a thought
 
Not doing it could cause complications later, doing it pretty much causes no problems and solves a few others. I don't understand the whole thing against it, except possibly that some people have...ummmm... issues, and they blame those issues on their missing foreskin?
 
What complications are those, JoeEllison? and what problems does it solve?
 
Upchurch said:
Earlier this week my wife and I found out that we are going to have a boy this October.
Click to expand...

How cool is that? Congratulations, Mr Upchurch. :thumbsup:

As for circumcision, don't do it just so. It's only anecdotal evidence, sure, but I got (partly) circumcised at the age of 17 because that foreskin thingy was too tight for my (darn big) manhood. No kidding, the surgeon had to remove part of the foreskin so that I wouldn't be in pain when, um, excited. At that age, it took weeks to heal, and it was certainly no fun, but in the end it was the right decision. However, almost immediately I noticed that my best friend got less sensitive. There is an advantage to this, and my urologist confirmed that suspicion just recently, but I'm not sure how to write about it without breaking forum rules.

Anyway, I don't think you should circumcise the boy only because it's very common in the US. I respect that many of my friends who are Jewish do it, but I do not see a "reasonable" reason behind it.

From my personal experience I know that there are both positive and negative consequences. I'd wait until little Upchurch grows older, wait if a doctor or he himself thinks it should be done.
 
I've heard conflicting reports of it improving chance of not catching aids, but there are much better more effective ways of protecting yourself from aids. I haven't really heard of any proven benefit to doing it, and it seems like a brutal procedure when you watch it, so should I ever have a boy, I myself lean toward not doing it.

Side note: I actually had some crazy guy on slashdot call the US a religious police-state because, among other reasons, most people are circumcised.
 
There is a huge thread about this already.

I'm not circumcised and the whole thing is, frankly, insane sounding to me. There aren't any statistics that bear out that this procedure is safer medically than doing nothing (look at the other thread plenty of cites).

Anyway look at the other thread before you cut off bits of your child for superstitious reasons. Loss Leader has been extremely upfront in that the only reason he's doing this is tradition. This seems like really the only logical reason to do it (and I personally wouldn't do it for that but I'm not part of the tradition he's a part of).

I would probably make it illegal except for medical necessity if I ruled the universe. ;)
 
Frankly the US isn't a police state but it's not nearly as "free" as most Americans think it is.
I feel way less under government suspicion in Canada or Holland than here (I grew up in Canada).
 
Upchurch said:
My wife is taking the cowards way out* by saying that it has to do with penises, so it's my responsibility to decide.[/size]
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Since everyone, was hoping to become part of our domestic disputes- I just want to point out that I had been told years ago (by Upchurch) that I had to give the period talk to girls. I assumed that this was because I had more insight into the matter, not that he was a coward.
 
NobbyNobbs said:
Then explain the tonsils and appendix.
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Foreskins don't regularly become infected and kill the person. Its just as ridiculous as cutting of an earlobe for aesthetic or religious reasons.


ETA: And tonsils and appendix's are useful.
 
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