CIT.....Time to call it a day

[bobloblaw]

Dom,

There's a few problems with your assertions about Sucherman.

Sucherman never said he saw a second "jet", he said he saw a second plane that was at a high altitude and off to the west. He said that he saw it about 3 to 5 seconds after the impact when he looked in a westward direction. He does not say that it was 3 to 5 seconds behind AA77.

Craig Ranke showed him a picture of a C-130 and asked him if that was the plane, but Sucherman wasn't sure as he said the plane was silhouetted against the sun and he could not determine what type of aircraft it was.

He describes at as gaining altitude and veering off to the north.

He never says that it is near the Pentagon. He explicitly mentions that it wasn't over the Pentagon, and that it had turned away to the north before reaching it, which is exactly what Keith Wheelhouse said.

I am yet to see anything from Joel Sucherman that is irreconcilable with the official account. His account is corroborated by the RADES 84 data and other witnesses (including some of the ANC witnesses that Craig is about to unleash as NoC witnesses).

What crap are you going to come up with next?

 

[bobloblaw]

Since you appear to be using "jet" and "second jet" when reffering to Sucherman talking about the second plane, I'd like to see where you pulled these quotes from.

Sources please.

 

[bobloblaw]

Since NoC is uber-corroborated, when are you guys gonna start pulling together some flyover witnesses?

 

[TC329]

Dom,

There's a few problems with your assertions about Sucherman.

Sucherman never said he saw a second "jet", he said he saw a second plane that was at a high altitude and off to the west. He said that he saw it about 3 to 5 seconds after the impact when he looked in a westward direction. He does not say that it was 3 to 5 seconds behind AA77.

Craig Ranke showed him a picture of a C-130 and asked him if that was the plane, but Sucherman wasn't sure as he said the plane was silhouetted against the sun and he could not determine what type of aircraft it was.

He describes at as gaining altitude and veering off to the north.

He never says that it is near the Pentagon. He explicitly mentions that it wasn't over the Pentagon, and that it had turned away to the north before reaching it, which is exactly what Keith Wheelhouse said.

I am yet to see anything from Joel Sucherman that is irreconcilable with the official account. His account is corroborated by the RADES 84 data and other witnesses (including some of the ANC witnesses that Craig is about to unleash as NoC witnesses).

What crap are you going to come up with next?

using the search function i came across this. perhaps i mistook Sucherman's statement with another and he said plane.

Joel Sucherman:

USA Today Editor Joel Sucherman sees a second plane but gives few details. [eWeek, 9/13/2001]. Tells CIT, that as soon as AA77 makes "impact" he see's another plane "peeling off into the sky". Will not identify the plane, even when shown pictures of the C-130.


The facts are the facts though. The C130 was a good 30-60 seconds away from the Pentagon at the time of impact and could not be the plane Joel saw peeling off in the sky. O'Brien's own words prove that.

So if this second jet isn't AA77 flying away and it isn't the C130 which is nowhere near then what is it?

 

[bobloblaw]

using the search function i came across this. perhaps i mistook Sucherman's statement with another and he said plane.

Joel Sucherman:

USA Today Editor Joel Sucherman sees a second plane but gives few details. [eWeek, 9/13/2001]. Tells CIT, that as soon as AA77 makes "impact" he see's another plane "peeling off into the sky". Will not identify the plane, even when shown pictures of the C-130.


The facts are the facts though. The C130 was a good 30-60 seconds away from the Pentagon at the time of impact and could not be the plane Joel saw peeling off in the sky. O'Brien's own words prove that.

So if this second jet isn't AA77 flying away and it isn't the C130 which is nowhere near then what is it?

Oh cut the crap.

It's at high altitude and off to the west far enough that he can't make out what type of plane it is.

Go outside today and watch planes in the sky. Try and estimate how far you are away from them. Time how long you see them in the sky.

Good grief.

 

[beachnut]

Joel Sucherman:

Why would you even mention this guy, he saw 77 hit the Pentagon. I heard him say so. I think I heard it over 6 years ago. Gee, I have heard from people in the Pentagon they saw 77 hit the Pentagon. Guess you will not talk to the people who saw it hit the Pentagon, you will then have to say they are in on it; what ever it is.

What is your position? Oh, you lie about planted poles.

 

[TC329]

Oh cut the crap.

It's at high altitude and off to the west far enough that he can't make out what type of plane it is.

Go outside today and watch planes in the sky. Try and estimate how far you are away from them. Time how long you see them in the sky.

Good grief.

you "cut the crap" Dishonest Bob.

the c130 was nowhere near the pentagon and it did not "peel away" from the pentagon 3-5 seconds after the explosion.

Sucherman watched the flyover.

If he's honest and not just a Operation Mockingbird USA Today plant then he bought into the 'second plane' cover story.

So you cut the crap Bob. There was no plane "peeling away" from the Pentagon 3-5 seconds after the explosion.

You're more than welcome to say O'Brien is full of 'crap' but I don't think too many others are going to join you......

 

[bobloblaw]

Please identify a flyover witness.

 

[TC329]

Why would you even mention this guy, he saw 77 hit the Pentagon. I heard him say so. I think I heard it over 6 years ago. Gee, I have heard from people in the Pentagon they saw 77 hit the Pentagon. Guess you will not talk to the people who saw it hit the Pentagon, you will then have to say they are in on it; what ever it is.

What is your position? Oh, you lie about planted poles.

So what plane did Joel watch 'peel away' 3-5 seconds after the explosions started?

 

[TC329]

Please identify a flyover witness.

Roosevelt. Go talk to him Bob.

Ask him about the silver commercial airliner he witnessed past the impact spot "3-5" seconds after the explosions started.

 

[bobloblaw]

So what plane did Joel watch 'peel away' 3-5 seconds after the explosions started?

Where are the flyover witnesses.

 

[bobloblaw]

Roosevelt. Go talk to him Bob.

Ask him about the silver commercial airliner he witnessed past the impact spot "3-5" seconds after the explosions started.

I'd love to talk with him but he's proving to not be as simple to find. Adam Larson has something in progress, we'll see what happens there.

Roosevelt is not a flyover witness. First of all he witnesses a silver commercial airliner whilst CIT proved that the plane was white. He also puts the plane in the south Pentagon parking area which is in the view of the Doubletree Hotel security camera - oops, no plane!

I think you're going to have a real problem trying to prove that the plane somehow flew through the fireball and then magically reappared over the south Pentagon parking lot.

And isn't CIT all about corroboration? Who corroborates Roberts story that the plane is over the south Pentagon parking lot?

Where are the flyover witnesses?

 

[bobloblaw]

Doesn't Roberts also put the impact at 9:12?

Why do you take the impact witnesses literally but not the ones that you cherry pick?

What silver commercial airliner did Roberts see at 9:12 over the south Pentagon parking lot, Dom?

Where are the flyover witnesses?

How do 40 foot poles fit in white courier vans, Dom?

 

[SpitfireIX]

using the search function i came across this. perhaps i mistook Sucherman's statement with another and he said plane.

Joel Sucherman:

USA Today Editor Joel Sucherman sees a second plane but gives few details. [eWeek, 9/13/2001]. Tells CIT, that as soon as AA77 makes "impact" he see's another plane "peeling off into the sky". Will not identify the plane, even when shown pictures of the C-130.


The facts are the facts though. The C130 was a good 30-60 seconds away from the Pentagon at the time of impact and could not be the plane Joel saw peeling off in the sky. O'Brien's own words prove that.

So if this second jet isn't AA77 flying away and it isn't the C130 which is nowhere near then what is it?

Wishful thinking.

Speed limit within four miles of Reagan National airport below 10,000 ft = 200 kts.

200 kts/3600 sec/hr = 0.0556 nm/sec

0.0556 nm/sec * 30 sec = 1.67 nm

So please explain, if you would, how Sucherman couldn't have seen a C-130 two to four miles from the Pentagon at low altitude.

Further, from O'Brien's interview with the Minneapolis Star-Tribune:

". . . When air traffic control asked me if we had him in sight, I told him that was an understatement - by then, he had pretty much filled our windscreen. Then he made a pretty aggressive turn so he was moving right in front of us, a mile and a half, two miles away. I said we had him in sight, then the controller asked me what kind of plane it was.
"That caught us up, because normally they have all that information. The controller didn't seem to know anything."
O'Brien reported that the plane was either a 757 or 767 and its silver fuselage meant it was probably an American Airlines jet. "They told us to turn and follow that aircraft - in 20-plus years of flying, I've never been asked to do something like that. With all of the East Coast haze, I had a hard time picking him out.
"The next thing I saw was the fireball. It was huge. I told Washington the airplane has impacted the ground. . . . Suddenly, I could see the outline of the Pentagon. It was horrible. I told Washington this thing has impacted the west side of the Pentagon."
O'Brien asked the controller whether he should set up a low orbit around the building but was told to get out of the area as quickly as possible. "I took the plane once through the plume of smoke and thought if this was a terrorist attack, it probably wasn't a good idea to be flying through that plume." [bolding mine]

So the C-130 clearly continued on course for several seconds after the impact--long enough to identify the Pentagon as the impact site, report this to air-traffic control, request instructions, and receive a reply. Plus the aircraft flew through the smoke from the crash.

Please explain again how this wasn't the aircraft Sucherman saw.

 

[TC329]

I'd love to talk with him but he's proving to not be as simple to find. Adam Larson has something in progress, we'll see what happens there.

Thats because Roosevelt understands what he saw.

Roosevelt is not a flyover witness. First of all he witnesses a silver commercial airliner whilst CIT proved that the plane was white. He also puts the plane in the south Pentagon parking area which is in the view of the Doubletree Hotel security camera - oops, no plane!

So you say "AA77" is definitely white and not silver?

The Doubletree Hotel tape was in FBI custody for years.
The Citgo tape has been proven to be a fabrication.
Anomalies exist within the Doubletree tape as well.

I think you're going to have a real problem trying to prove that the plane somehow flew through the fireball and then magically reappared over the south Pentagon parking lot.

I don't believe it flew through the fireball. I believe it flew on the north side of the fireball. Thats why there are no North end of 27 witnesses. Thats why they closed the road 'convienantly' enough after Lloyd, whose wife is an FBI agent, pulled onto Route 27.

And isn't CIT all about corroboration? Who corroborates Roberts story that the plane is over the south Pentagon parking lot?

Sucherman puts a plane "peeling away" from the Pentagon 3-5 seconds after the explosion. This is the same plane Roosevelt witnesses when he runs outside after hearing the explosion. Roosevelt describes it as a silver commercial airliner about 100' above the light poles.

Where are the flyover witnesses?

If you apply your critical thinking cap you'll realize I already gave you 2 of them.......

 

[TC329]

Doesn't Roberts also put the impact at 9:12?

Why do you take the impact witnesses literally but not the ones that you cherry pick?

What silver commercial airliner did Roberts see at 9:12 over the south Pentagon parking lot, Dom?

Well if Roosevelt sees it at 9:12 then explosions started in the Pentagon at 9:12 Bob because Roosevelt hears the explosion and then runs outside.

What blew up in the Pentagon 30 minutes before the plane hit, Bob?

How do 40 foot poles fit in white courier vans, Dom?

Only 1 pole needed to be staged in realtime Bob. Most likely the teams involved in staging it were in the white vans and the pole was located in the immediate vacinity.

I personally believe Lloyd England is a victim of something more sinister and not an accomplice but then again I haven't spent a day with him either......

 

[bobloblaw]

Noone corroborates Roosevelt Roberts. Noone. Stop talking nonsense.

And who is your second supposed flyover witness?

You don't have one!

Where are the flyover witnesses, Dom?

 

[TC329]

Please explain again how this wasn't the aircraft Sucherman saw.

Because O'Brien wasn't near the Pentagon when Sucherman's plane "peeled away". Pure and simple.

Sucherman saw the same plane Roosevelt saw flying over the parking lot past the impact at about 100' above the poles. Roosevelt has no doubt in his mind he saw a silver commercial airliner.

Honestly, I am fearful for his life and since the revelations of his testimony I expect he will most likely become "suicidal or suffer a horrible accident" within the immediate future......

 

[TC329]

Noone corroborates Roosevelt Roberts. Noone. Stop talking nonsense.

And who is your second supposed flyover witness?

You don't have one!

Where are the flyover witnesses, Dom?

Joel Sucherman puts a plane peeling away from the Pentagon at the same time as Roosevelt, Bob.

The difference is Roosevelt was in a better position to see it. Pure and simple.

If we could get the Arlington 911 calls released I suspect we would have a huge list of flyover witness names.........

 

[bobloblaw]

You're as delusional as Craig.

Where are the flyover witnesses, Dom?