The mere belief in Hell makes you a more evil person.

[pgwenthold]

Agreed. Although you would hope they would go one step further...

"Hang on a second, if this is supposed to be the word of god why is it so horrible and contradictory? Why would there be the necessity to cherry pick?

This was pretty close to how it was for me. I knew that I was picking and chosing a lot, and finally it dawned on me that I wasn't actually following any religion, I was just looking to those parts of religion that I agreed with. So what was the purpose of religion? There was none.

 

[juryjone]

[...] but as usual the problem is that people are tugging at the religion from all sides, making it inconsistent. As all religions have been tugged at like that for a long time, it's not strange that they have a hard time getting all the viewpoints working together.

Religion needs no help in being inconsistent - no "tugging" necessary. If any of it was based in reality, then no amount of "tugging" would make it less real.

 

[Rufo]

Religion needs no help in being inconsistent - no "tugging" necessary. If any of it was based in reality, then no amount of "tugging" would make it less real.

Necessary or not, it definately helps. A lot. But the alternative seems to be to have strong human authority to avoid conflicting interpretations, and frankly, I think that's a worse solution.

My point was more that when someone creates an explanation for their interpretation, and then someone else decides to apply the same explanation to an entirely different interpretation, the results may end up funny.

 

[boloboffin]

This is not the only function the doctrine of Hell serves in a society. Hell also is meant to comfort the suffering and placate their desire for instant justice (which usually ends up with a mob and a hanging). The vigilante impulse is something that society must neutralize, and the struggle to do so can be seen all through the Bible.

So Hell's use as a deterrent is a secondary function of the doctrine. Its primary purpose is to give patience to God's people.

This is the flip side of Pascal's wager, by the way. You can wait to have your justice in the afterlife, or you can exact it now.

If you do not wait and there is no God, you might or might not accomplish your justice. There's no guarantee. And even if you do, you only gain your justice for the few years you have left on earth, and then you're dead.

If you do not wait and there is a God, then you have supplanted him from his throne, and it's off to hell with you.

If you wait and there is no God, then you've gained the benefits of patience and brought a little harmony into your life.

If you wait and there is a God, then God corrects all your problems, sends all who afflicted you to everlasting torment, and you gain everlasting comfort.

Obviously, it's better to wait.

 

[Wowbagger]

Forever, as in googleplex to the googleplex years "and you're just getting started", I don't know.

Yeah, that's right around the time it stops being fun.

 

[mdpbl]

I was under the impression that the idea of fire and brimstone came from "Dante's Inferno" and that it wasn't a part of the bible. I'm not sure if I'm correct and I haven't the inclination or time to read the bible to find out.

 

[pgwenthold]

I was under the impression that the idea of fire and brimstone came from "Dante's Inferno" and that it wasn't a part of the bible. I'm not sure if I'm correct and I haven't the inclination or time to read the bible to find out.

The lake of fire and brimstone is definately mentioned in the bible (it is used as part of the proof that heaven is hotter than hell - a lake of brimstone means that it must be below the boiling temperature)

 

[Michael C]

I was under the impression that the idea of fire and brimstone came from "Dante's Inferno" and that it wasn't a part of the bible. I'm not sure if I'm correct and I haven't the inclination or time to read the bible to find out.

"And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched"

(Mark, 9:43)

"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels"

(Matthew, 25:41)

 

[Giraffe107]

From my understanding of Baha'i, heaven and hell aren't separated as such, there are 9 (7?) levels, heaven being in god's lap or whatever and hell being very, very far away. You could progress closer to god or fall back, depending on your behaviour. Don't know if this idea came from Christianity or from one of their specific prophets.

 

[Giraffe107]

But yes I do tend to agree with the OP in terms of the 'fire and brimstone' eternal hell

 

[Beerina]

Forever, as in googleplex to the googleplex years "and you're just getting started", I don't know.

Yeah, that's right around the time it stops being fun.

I'm tellin' ya, exciting holographic sex romps with periodic memory wipes to make it always fresh and new is the way to go! That 45 year old English teacher in high school you wanted so badly? Now she takes you by the hand into the back room. Soon her heavy D's are blappin' ya in the face and you become a man.

Yeah, that'll take up all that googolplex time quite nicely.

 

[Moochie]

I'm tellin' ya, exciting holographic sex romps with periodic memory wipes to make it always fresh and new is the way to go! That 45 year old English teacher in high school you wanted so badly? Now she takes you by the hand into the back room. Soon her heavy D's are blappin' ya in the face and you become a man.

Yeah, that'll take up all that googolplex time quite nicely.

I don't know what it is. But I think it's wicked.


M.

 

[skeptical]

"And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched"

(Mark, 9:43)

"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels"

(Matthew, 25:41)

I am no expert on the topic, but my layman's understanding is that the "modern" connotation of hell is mostly due to medieval depictions. The original Greek words that are variously translated as hell are either:

1) Gehenna - The valley of Hinnom outside of Jeruselem where garbage and the dead were burned. A place of destruction.

2) Hades - associated with the Greek Orcus, a dark and dismal place in the earth, the abode of the wicked

3) Tartaroo (single occurrence, 2 Peter 2:4) - deepest abyss of Hades, possible place of torment for fallen angels

It is not clear that the original understanding of those words meant a place of eternal torment for sinners as the modern depiction has it. For example, the most obvious connotation of "everlasting fire" or "fire that will never be quenched" is simply a fire that burns forever, not torment that lasts forever. It's also my understanding the the Jewish view of the afterlife does not contain a place of eternal torment, and that this is a Christian invention, which is ironic considering the kinder, gentler Yahweh of the NT.

Perhaps someone else with more knowledge can weigh in on this subject.

 

[skeptical]

To the OP, I have always thought that a person who really believes in the traditional concept of Hell has simply never given the matter much thought or has something seriously askew with their moral compass.

 

[articulett]

To the OP, I have always thought that a person who really believes in the traditional concept of Hell has simply never given the matter much thought or has something seriously askew with their moral compass.

As well as a whacked view of a god that they claim is all about "love".

I am not all loving; I would never make even a single child if I believed there was the slightest possibility that they or their descendents could suffer eternally.

 

[e-sabbath]

Well. I'm mostly agnostic. Actually, I'm mostly atheist, but I can't get away from a nagging guilty feeling.

That said, I sort of believe in Hell, and I'm pretty sure that if it exists, there's a good chance I'm going there, no matter what I do in this world.

Does that make me a more evil person? Why?

After all, if the Lord exists, he's the only one who makes the final decision on where you go. Me... I'm no worse than the mass of mankind, but I'm no better. I know my failings as well as anyone. No great sins, but a few petty ones.
And I like cheeseburgers a lot.

 

[Robin]

It isn't forever. There is a second death in the lake of fire, that's the end of your existence. So for those people who don't believe in God, no point in bothering with him if you don't want to live forever, because you will cease to exist someday.

So why does Jesus call it "eternal punishement" then?

 

[Dragoonster]

The reason is: If punishment is eternal, then it cannot serve a purpose.

Those who are punished eternally cannot change for the better, even if a lesson is learned. Since they're trapped in Hell, they can't make good based on what they've learned from their punishment.

To me, the very concept of Hell just illustrates how sadistic and evil the men were who first imagined it. It's one thing to hate your fellow man and want to see him suffer, but believing that he deserves eternal Hell is infinitely disproportionate punishment. Even holding open the possibility that your own child could ever deserve Hell raises fears in my mind regarding how this belief gets projected onto the real life parent/child relationship.

How should this be compared to an atheist's support for a life sentence without parole in our justice system? To most atheists there's no afterlife, or no evidence of one, and we tend to think our life on Earth is all there is. So, in sentencing another person to life in prison without parole, we're sentencing them to punishment for the rest of their existence. Wouldn't that be about as sadistic and evil? Or is hell worse because hell suffering is worse than prison suffering?

The reasons a Christian might believe someone deserves to go to Hell is if they go against God or sin. The reason an atheist might believe someone deserves to spend the rest of their life in prison is if they murder a bunch of others, or some equally terrible thing done to others.

So, is an irrational reason to send someone to eternal suffering evil and sociopathic, but a rational reason to send someone to eternal suffering (from their perspective), good or socially responsible? Is it the result or the reasoning that's evil?

If I'm not making sense, replace every "hell" with "life in prison without parole" in the above. Of course some atheists may think everyone deserves the possibility of parole no matter their crimes, so the analogy wouldn't fit for them.

 

[Robin]

I was under the impression that the idea of fire and brimstone came from "Dante's Inferno" and that it wasn't a part of the bible. I'm not sure if I'm correct and I haven't the inclination or time to read the bible to find out.

No, it is from Revelations:

Revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
Revelation 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

That pretty much seems to say that it is eternal torture in fire and brimstone presided over by JC.

In fact Dante's Hell is very, very cold and he reserves fire for Purgatory.

 

[articulett]

I don't think a mere belief in hell makes you evil. I think it's sad... scary. I think it's what makes most people say they "believe" and not think about it too much so they don't accidentally lose faith and perish per pascal's wager.

I think it's a cruelty that humans have inflicted upon other humans to control them. What couldn't you get someone to do to keep out of hell? It's been very good at keeping people from "biting from the tree of knowledge".

I like the rational response squads method of facing this fear so fewer kids are infected with this meme.