Hopsicker calls for more investigative journalists

metamars

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Daniel Hopsicker, of madcowprod.com, who actually does original research of the gumshoe/investigative reporting type into 911, spoke recently at the New England Truth 9/11 Truth Symposium

I think what we need is for a lot of social activists to become investigative journalists.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-513678522664580570&hl=en
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3089193736577617980
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4092037229001509820


Amen to that. IMO, it's one of the great failings of the 911 Truth Movement not to have corroborated and/or disconfirmed Hopsicker's findings.

Of course, if we had a properly functioning media, it would have covered all the ground covered by Hopsicker many times over. Furthermore, if we had a non-corrupt FBI, it would have covered much of the ground covered by Hopsicker. Instead, we're told that the FBI visited Mohammed Atta's neighbors weekly over a period of months following 911, trying to intimidate them into not saying anything to anybody, and in some cases, telling people "what they saw".

This appears to present no problem for the debunker community, who are content to point to Hopsicker's errors and say, essentially, "nothing more to see here'. Nor, of course, does it seem to be a problem for the masses of the American public, who mostly never heard of Hopsicker.

The question is, where is the 911 Truth Movement on this? I've noted previously that a lot (certainly seems like most) of activists' efforts get wasted, and not just 911 activists. While the problem of funding citizen investigative journalists is still being worked on (see, e.g., http://newassignment.net/ ), one would have hoped that, due to the extraordinary nature of 911, the 911 Truth Movement would have at least gotten it's act together sufficiently to fund 2 or 3 investigative journalists. Not to mention Hopsicker, himself, who, if his information checks out, deserves a medal.

So, for those 911 Truthers out there who are looking for some positive ways to express their citizenship, and are willing to make an honest appraisal regarding what is likely to make a difference, and what is not, I will second Daniel Hopsicker's statement that I quoted above, with the twist that it's neither necessary nor optimal for everybody to figure out how to get to Florida or Germany, and start knocking on doors. In fact, that's a really stupid idea - we live in a complex society that relies on division of labor. What we need is some investigative reporters doing the work that our government and media consistently fail to do and many more people supporting them. The beauty of crowd-funding is that it doesn't require huge sums of money by any contributor. A large crowd of funders need only fork over extremely modest amounts. The current Presidential campaign in the US makes crystal clear that crowd-funding works.

I've expressed many thoughts re a replacement media, which calls for built-in crowd-funding in that subscribers can "vote with their hands", by pro-actively directing a portion of their subscription fees towards topics of their own choosing, in a proposal called "Putting the NY Times Out of Business". Unfortunately, the forum that was on has gone kaput, and I haven't gotten around to putting the information up anywhere else.

Nevertheless, I recommend that all activists not just whine about the media, and try and figure out how to beg it to do it's duty (good luck with that one - talk about a waste of time!), but instead look to bypass it with something better, that is nevertheless accessible and desirable to John Q. Public. In terms of TV, broadband access makes exactly this possible, but it's surprisingly slow in coming. In the meantime, crowd-funding is just about here (see also http://www.spot.us/ ). Let's not wait another 7 YEARS to fact check Hopsicker.
 

Let's pretend that you are going to "commit journalism", and try to get to the bottom of whether or not Amanda Keller was Atta's girlfriend.

Let's further pretend that you have a budget, so that traveling to Florida, and staying there for a few months is not a problem.

Amanda Keller has given contradictory statements, so even if you managed to track her down, you couldn't take her at her word.

How would you proceed? Just to show you what a swell guy I am, I'll give you a hint regarding how you should proceed. And the hint is this:

Neither Amanda Keller nor Mohammed Atta were invisible.
 
Let's pretend I give a flying :rule10 whether Keller and Atta were invisible or not. If you've got smokin' hot evidence that verifies her stories about dating Atta, don't be shy. Produce.
 
How would you proceed? Just to show you what a swell guy I am, I'll give you a hint regarding how you should proceed. And the hint is this:

Neither Amanda Keller nor Mohammed Atta were invisible.

Ask her for photos of her and her boyfriend Mohamed. Doesn't this tell you a little about Hopsicker's investigative skills? Hopsicker took that video because it was "good enough" that she mentioned Mohamed did this and Mohamed did that.

The real problem with the "Truth" movement is that "good enough" attitude. It's like that moment about 40 minutes into every CSI episode where they think they know whodunnit, but there's one little bit of evidence that doesn't fit. The "Truthers" tend to sweep that under the carpet.

Why? Because the object is not to prove 9-11 was an inside job; it's to sell books and videos and lectures.
 
Everyone check out the beginning of the first video. Nice to see that Jackman of SST911 is showing the proper gravitas for an event concerning the alleged murder of thousands of Americans by their own government.
 
Let's pretend I give a flying :rule10 whether Keller and Atta were invisible or not. If you've got smokin' hot evidence that verifies her stories about dating Atta, don't be shy. Produce.

Nice duck. But I'm sure that the open-minded reader will correctly infer where I was going with my hint, which is an obvious statement of fact.

Just to show you what a swell-er guy I am, I invite you to ask other JREF'ers to help you out. Oh, and BTW, since I've agreed with Hopsicker's suggestion, and I've been clear that one reason is because Hopsicker's information needs verification (or debunking, as the case may be), why would you think that I've got any evidence, "smokin' hot" or otherwise, at the ready? Isn't it obvious that I'm agreeing with Hopsicker's call precisely so that more documentation (if not hard evidence, e.g. photographs) could be obtained of Hopsicker's own claims?


While you're working on the original question, I'll pose another one: Why would Hopsicker call not just for more investigative journalists, in general, but in the context of a 911 presentation, essentially invite others to do work that creates the potential of contradicting his findings? Certainly, if enough people decided to do that, and if Hopsicker is a fraud and/or completely incompetent, then he'd run the risk of being found out. That wouldn't help him sell his videos and books, now, would it?

This question's answer is more in the realm of hypothetical spectrum of opinion than the original question. Only Hopsicker can answer it authoritatively. So, for anybody who finds the original one challenging, it's best to hold off on this 'toughy'.
 
Daniel Hopsicker, of madcowprod.com, who actually does original research of the gumshoe/investigative reporting type into 911, spoke recently at the New England Truth 9/11 Truth Symposium



http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-513678522664580570&hl=en
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3089193736577617980
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4092037229001509820


Amen to that. IMO, it's one of the great failings of the 911 Truth Movement not to have corroborated and/or disconfirmed Hopsicker's findings.

Of course, if we had a properly functioning media, it would have covered all the ground covered by Hopsicker many times over. Furthermore, if we had a non-corrupt FBI, it would have covered much of the ground covered by Hopsicker. Instead, we're told that the FBI visited Mohammed Atta's neighbors weekly over a period of months following 911, trying to intimidate them into not saying anything to anybody, and in some cases, telling people "what they saw".

This appears to present no problem for the debunker community, who are content to point to Hopsicker's errors and say, essentially, "nothing more to see here'. Nor, of course, does it seem to be a problem for the masses of the American public, who mostly never heard of Hopsicker.

The question is, where is the 911 Truth Movement on this? I've noted previously that a lot (certainly seems like most) of activists' efforts get wasted, and not just 911 activists. While the problem of funding citizen investigative journalists is still being worked on (see, e.g., http://newassignment.net/ ), one would have hoped that, due to the extraordinary nature of 911, the 911 Truth Movement would have at least gotten it's act together sufficiently to fund 2 or 3 investigative journalists. Not to mention Hopsicker, himself, who, if his information checks out, deserves a medal.

So, for those 911 Truthers out there who are looking for some positive ways to express their citizenship, and are willing to make an honest appraisal regarding what is likely to make a difference, and what is not, I will second Daniel Hopsicker's statement that I quoted above, with the twist that it's neither necessary nor optimal for everybody to figure out how to get to Florida or Germany, and start knocking on doors. In fact, that's a really stupid idea - we live in a complex society that relies on division of labor. What we need is some investigative reporters doing the work that our government and media consistently fail to do and many more people supporting them. The beauty of crowd-funding is that it doesn't require huge sums of money by any contributor. A large crowd of funders need only fork over extremely modest amounts. The current Presidential campaign in the US makes crystal clear that crowd-funding works.

I've expressed many thoughts re a replacement media, which calls for built-in crowd-funding in that subscribers can "vote with their hands", by pro-actively directing a portion of their subscription fees towards topics of their own choosing, in a proposal called "Putting the NY Times Out of Business". Unfortunately, the forum that was on has gone kaput, and I haven't gotten around to putting the information up anywhere else.

Nevertheless, I recommend that all activists not just whine about the media, and try and figure out how to beg it to do it's duty (good luck with that one - talk about a waste of time!), but instead look to bypass it with something better, that is nevertheless accessible and desirable to John Q. Public. In terms of TV, broadband access makes exactly this possible, but it's surprisingly slow in coming. In the meantime, crowd-funding is just about here (see also http://www.spot.us/ ). Let's not wait another 7 YEARS to fact check Hopsicker.

While we could always use more investigative journalists, 9/11 truth doesn't deserve any. First off, there is no evidence to corroberate it was inside job. Second, journalists have bigger fish to fry so to speak. Third, no matter what any investigative journalist would do, it wouldn't help 9/11 truth. Truthers have been gone as far as to say the media was involved in the cover ups of the attacks. Why should journalists give anything to truthers when they are being accused of murder?
 
Ask her for photos of her and her boyfriend Mohamed. Doesn't this tell you a little about Hopsicker's investigative skills? Hopsicker took that video because it was "good enough" that she mentioned Mohamed did this and Mohamed did that.

Please tell us how you know that Hopsicker didn't, in fact, ask for such a picture. And if he did, please tell us what response he got from Keller.

The real problem with the "Truth" movement is that "good enough" attitude.

You're partly correct, of course. However, as you can learn by studying newassignment.net, insufficiently supporting independent journalists is not a phenomenon limited to the 911 Truth community. Many 911 Truthers have made significant efforts to get the main stream media (and also the left alternative media) interested in 911 in a serious way. While they've made some breakthroughs - e.g. Air America Radio's Richard Greene's Clout program is at least allowing coverage and debates - I don't see where any media vehicle, in the entire world, has made a sincere effort to follow up on Hopsicker's original research.

Now, if you think that everybody in the 911 Truth movement prefers unverified information to it's opposite, you're entitled to your opinion. However, I find your opinion to be in the realm of sheer fantasy. I think most people who believe in either MIHOP, LIHOP, or mega-OOPS, want to see another investigation. A serious investigation would throw a lot of light on just about any theory, and expose baloney for what it is. Or so we can reasonably hope, anyway.

Not to put too fine a point on things, but one way to find out if the believers of MIHOP, LIHOP, or mega-OOPS are perfectly happy with "good enough", unverified information, is to ask them. Let me predict, here and now, that you and your ilk would never do that in any sort of scientific way, since you would then run the risk of being shown that your negative opinion of the 911 Truth community is factually incorrect. If that's the case, your hypothetical smears then become revealed as desperate ones. Somehow, I don't think you'd want that.

I recently posted a reference to a Rutgers professor who has actually studied conspiracy theory adherents. Check out the comments in that thread, to get a sense of the eagerness of the JREF community to see if their negative views of CT adherents are completely justified, basically baseless smears, or something in between. Note that I haven't read the book mentioned, myself, but I'm at least interested in whatever good, bad, and ugly-ness he has found about my fellow CT's.

It's like that moment about 40 minutes into every CSI episode where they think they know whodunnit, but there's one little bit of evidence that doesn't fit. The "Truthers" tend to sweep that under the carpet.

Why? Because the object is not to prove 9-11 was an inside job; it's to sell books and videos and lectures.

For every self-identified 911 Truther who makes money from selling books and/or videos, there are probably millions who do not. And let's not even go into who is selling books and videos merely to recover their costs, OK?

For the overwhelming majority of 911 Truthers, your comment makes no sense, unless understood as a gratuitous smear.

But hey, don't let that stop you. You've got a sympathetic audience, right?
 
I don't see where any media vehicle, in the entire world, has made a sincere effort to follow up on Hopsicker's original research.

There are two explainations for this:

1. Every media vehicle in the entire world, from the Bush-hating New York Times to Al-Jezeera in English is in on the 9/11 conspiracy.

or

2. Hopsicker's research is garbage.
 
There are two explainations for this:

1. Every media vehicle in the entire world, from the Bush-hating New York Times to Al-Jezeera in English is in on the 9/11 conspiracy.

or

2. Hopsicker's research is garbage.


Exactly. It slays me when Truthers make comments like this:
Of course, if we had a properly functioning media, it would have covered all the ground covered by Hopsicker many times over.
without seeming to consider the implications of it. Because for this fantasy to be true, the "we" in the above statement is all of humanity.
 
Excuse my noobishness: who is this Hopsicker guy and what's all this stuff about Atta's girlfriend? And what does it have to do with whether there was a conspiracy?
 
I repeat. If you've got any evidence that Hopsicker isn't talking trash, spill it. Otherwise, stop wasting my time.
 
Excuse my noobishness: who is this Hopsicker guy and what's all this stuff about Atta's girlfriend? And what does it have to do with whether there was a conspiracy?

Let's assume for a second that Atta was a booze-swilling, lap-dance loving hedonist? What's the big deal? Committing mass murderer already made him a bad, bad Muslim, so who cares what he was doing on the side.
 
There are two explainations for this:

1. Every media vehicle in the entire world, from the Bush-hating New York Times to Al-Jezeera in English is in on the 9/11 conspiracy.

or

2. Hopsicker's research is garbage.

Your set of possibilities is what mathematicians call a proper subset of the set of all possibilities.
 
I repeat. If you've got any evidence that Hopsicker isn't talking trash, spill it. Otherwise, stop wasting my time.

Since I started this thread, I'll return the comment. If you have anything intelligent to say about facilitating the formation of practical, crowd-funded investigative reporting into the curious associates of Mohammed Atta, which could confirm or disconfirm various claims made by Hopsicker, by all means share. In fact, if you have anything intelligent to say about the formation of practical, crowd-funded investigative reporting in general, by all means share. In this case it'd be a good idea if you shared here and at newassignment.net.

Otherwise, you're surely wasting my time, so please start your own thread to waste time in.

Have a nice day.
 
Excuse my noobishness: who is this Hopsicker guy and what's all this stuff about Atta's girlfriend? And what does it have to do with whether there was a conspiracy?

Hopsicker wrote a book called "Welcome to Terrorland" basically claiming that there was no way Mohamed Atta could have been this devout Muslim because he had a girlfriend (Amanda Keller) who was a stripper who said he drank and snorted coke. Hopsicker taped an interview with her where she talked about all this stuff she did with Mohamed (she never mentioned Mohamed's other name).

So anytime you hear DRG or one of the other fruitcakes mention that the hijackers did coke it's all based on Amanda Keller. The problem is that she did not date Atta she now admits; it was another guy named Mohamed.

Hopsicker (like most of the 9-11 conspiracy theorists) ties this into another conspiracy, involving drug-running at Huffman Aviation (which does have a legitimate tie-in to 9-11 in that Atta and Al-Shehhi trained on small aircraft there).
 
Since I started this thread, I'll return the comment. If you have anything intelligent to say about facilitating the formation of practical, crowd-funded investigative reporting into the curious associates of Mohammed Atta, which could confirm or disconfirm various claims made by Hopsicker, by all means share. In fact, if you have anything intelligent to say about the formation of practical, crowd-funded investigative reporting in general, by all means share. In this case it'd be a good idea if you shared here and at newassignment.net.

Otherwise, you're surely wasting my time, so please start your own thread to waste time in.

Have a nice day.

Right. You got nothing.

Have we met before?
 
Right. You got nothing.

Have we met before?

I got somebody who doesn't have an idea in his/her head about an organizational approach to verifying Hopsicker's research - and I do mean all or most of it, not a tiny fraction - and is trying to derail this thread.

I've also got cockroaches, which are now 'in season', and which I find are quite vulnerable to Formula 409 on a 1-off basis, though it doesn't seem to affect their nesting place.

Thread-derailers, cockroach colonies with inexhaustible reproductive capabilities, the excitement never ends!
 
The current Presidential campaign in the US makes crystal clear that crowd-funding works.

Daily Kos has Obama's April Fundraising numbers

New donors in April: 200,000
94% of contributions were under $200
93% of contributions were $100 or less
77% of contributions were $50 or less
52% of contributions were $25 or less

Number of donors to the Obama campaign overall at the end of April: 1.475 million
Number of contributions given: 2,929,000 million
Average donation: $91

Amount raised in April: $31.3 million (plus an additional $600,000 for the general election)

$31 million ~= 1.5 NIST reports.....
 

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