Isn't it about time we learn the truth about Obama?

[Octavo]

He was the head of the terrorist wing of the African American National Congress (ANC) that is why he was sentenced to prison.

Fixed that for you.

And Texas is right, despite attempts by the ANC to paint themselves in a more romantic light, they were indeed terrorists, as was Mandela. The fact that they now refer to themselves as "freedom fighters" does not negate the fact that they regularly bombed civilian institutions. The TRC was as much aimed at giving amnesty to ANC activists/terrorists as it was to give amnesty to white secret police (who were just as brutal in their use of torture etc.)

 

[chipmunk stew]

And your evidence for this is...

The Patriot Act.

 

[fuelair]

He was the head of the terrorist wing of the African American Congress (ANC) that is why he was sentenced to prison. The ANC carried out many bombings in SA along with their favorite technique of putting a tire around the neck of a person filling it with gasoline and lighting it on fire. This was reserved for "black collaborators". It was called necklacing and it was extremely brutal and effective. His wife was the more blood thirsty of the 2 however.
http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~springbk/enemy.html

Regardless of this specific source, necklacing of opponents/"collaborators was mentioned in many regular news reports (Orlando Sentinel, Tampa Tribune and television news about various things going on in South Africa prior to Mandela's release and over a couple of years following it. I assume this material is archived and probably reasonably available, but it is definitely out there and definitely occured. I do not know that Mandela himself did or ordered such, I do, to the extent they are are trustworthy, know that newspaper reports from/about victims and their families verify that Winnie's (Mandela) thug boys were definitely involved in some of them - as well as beatings and murders of opponents.

 

[Gurdur]

Uhh Mandela and the ANC WERE terrorists. Ever heard of "necklasing"?

He was the head of the terrorist wing of the African American Congress (ANC) that is why he was sentenced to prison. The ANC carried out many bombings in SA along with their favorite technique of putting a tire around the neck of a person filling it with gasoline and lighting it on fire. This was reserved for "black collaborators". It was called necklacing and it was extremely brutal and effective. His wife was the more blood thirsty of the 2 however.
http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~springbk/enemy.html

As an attack on Nelson Mandela himself, this is all very inaccurate bollocks indeed.

1) Necklacing (not "necklasing") started off in a big way in the 1980's -- when Mandela was in prison, and had been so for quite some time already. Nelson Mandela himself had no connection to necklacing whatsoever.

2) The charges on which Mandela was put in prison included the initial charge of "leading workers in a strike" (pretty bad stuff, huh, huh? How so terribly terribly terroristic) and getting other countries to invade South Africa (risible, and flatly denied).

3) The ANC condemned the practice of necklacing at the time, during the 1980's.

4) Several incidents of necklacing were carried out by the perps in the name of the ANC, but certainly not under ANC orders nor with the permission of the ANC.

5) Nelson Mandela himself condemned various (other) breaches of human rights by ANC bodies/members, and insisted on the breaches remaining named in the investigative body's report.


I'ld suggest you leave off the risibly inaccurate anti-Nelson smears; you might have more grounds for accusing Winnie, but Winnie does not and did not equal the ANC.

 

[Upchurch]

???

Well, see, you said that Ayers hosted the campaign kickoff fundraiser for Obama's first State Senate run in his own home. When I asked if you were sure about that, you directed me to that link, but the link doesn't say anything about a kickoff fundraiser for Obama's first State Senate run, let alone that Ayers hosted it or in his home. Unless I'm missing it somewhere?

Emphasis mine.So how often does he exchange ideas with an unrepentant urban terrorist?

It's a figure of speech.

 

[daredelvis]

So 's McCain's first and last words to Quinn should have been:
"Dude. You promoted David Duke and sold t-shirts praising Abraham Lincoln's assassination. So dude, **** you. Seriously."[/tu quoque]

I would love to see an honest response to this.

Daredelvis

 

[Pookster]

Well, see, you said that Ayers hosted the campaign kickoff fundraiser for Obama's first State Senate run in his own home. When I asked if you were sure about that, you directed me to that link, but the link doesn't say anything about a kickoff fundraiser for Obama's first State Senate run, let alone that Ayers hosted it or in his home. Unless I'm missing it somewhere?

After a lot of searching, I found this ...

http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/trailhead/archive/2008/04/17/ayers-dirty-laundry.aspx

In last night’s spectacular orgy of anti-issues, many viewers were introduced to a new name: Bill Ayers. Barack Obama’s associations with the former Weather Underground member have been known for some time. Ben Smith reported in February that Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn, now high-profile Chicago activists and professors, held a fundraiser for met with Obama at their home.* But the story failed to catch. Why is it coming back to life now?

The part I bolded is actually struck through on the webpage. This is added at the bottom of the page ...

* Oops. Obama met Ayers at a small gathering at Ayers' house, but it wasn't a fundraiser. Ayers did, however, donate $200 to Obama's Illinois re-election campaign.

Now, it doesn't say that this was for his first State Senate run, but it appears there is a good bit of misinformation floating around about this whole Ayers thing now. I found a number of anonymous blog comments that seemed to be all over the place as to what and when it happened. It reads like 9/11 truther conspiracy talk, for the most part.

Hopefully poster BPSCG will help clear this up.

 

[Pookster]

I think this best explains patriotism ...

"The nation is divided, half patriots and half traitors, and no man can tell which from which." ~ Mark Twain

 

[Pookster]

And another one that seems quite appropriate lately too ...

"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel." ~ Samuel Johnson

 

[Pookster]

After a lot of searching, I found this ...

After some more searching, I found this. I think this likely is what happened ...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/17/ayers-and-obama-what-is-t_n_97204.html

Politico, who first covered the relationship into this year, reports that Obama visited the household of the Ayers in Chicago early in his political career:

In 1995, State Senator Alice Palmer introduced her chosen successor, Barack Obama, to a few of the district's influential liberals at the home of two well known figures on the local left: William Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn....

"I can remember being one of a small group of people who came to Bill Ayers' house to learn that Alice Palmer was stepping down from the senate and running for Congress," said Dr. Quentin Young, a prominent Chicago physician and advocate for single-payer health care, of the informal gathering at the home of Ayers and his wife, Dohrn. "[Palmer] identified [Obama] as her successor."

 

[chipmunk stew]

After some more searching, I found this. I think this likely is what happened ...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/17/ayers-and-obama-what-is-t_n_97204.html

So it's gone from being introduced by a third party to Ayers and Dohrn at their home, to attending a fundraiser for his state senate campaign, to hanging out with them like old friends.

This is such a non-story.

 

[Pookster]

So it's gone from being introduced by a third party to Ayers and Dohrn at their home, to attending a fundraiser for his state senate campaign, to hanging out with them like old friends.

This is such a non-story.

That appears to be all it is. The right-wing blogs are filled with various kinds of exaggerations and misinformation about Ayers and Obama, especially when it comes to this episode. Maybe poster BPSCG can explain where he got his information from, because it doesn't show up in any MSM articles (that I can find) as he stated it.

 

[MaGZ]

We need to know NOW.... while Hillary is still (barely) viable, because that is only fair for her, and the people who support her. It is NOT fair to have Hillary ousted and THEN find out Obama really IS unpatriotic come November.

But... you see, my point is NOT in saying that Barack IS unpatriotic. Just so we are perfectly clear here.

Maybe the news shows have unfairly come to those conclusions. Maybe he sat in that church for 20 years putting Wright on ignore (in so many words), just so he could gain recognition being with 'his people'. You really can't blame him for that. OPRAH was there. Why was SHE originally there...at THAT particular church? Is that church consided THE black church, if you want to have any standing in the black community? If it is, then can we really fault Barack for going there?

And the (terrorist)Ayers issue. Are some of the news channels making a relationship here that really isn't? I want the truth. Barack, in his speeches really SOUNDS patriotic and sincere. But those associations seem to be at a conflict.

Or, IS Obama a fraud and a rouser of the people like H.....was, and wants to gain power at all costs by sounding good?

I want the truth...NOW.

What is the truth?

You are apparently unaware of the Frank Marshall Davis connection to Obama, which is the next shoe to drop.

http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Frank_Marshall_Davis

 

[MaGZ]

I'm serious on this. To the point that it is almost worthy of a gov't investigation. We can't have no President in office who shmoozes with terrorist types, and contemptible unpatriotic people. This goes way beyond something like sex scandals. If he is not guilty of any of this, let the truth be known and lets put this to rest. If Barack is as sincere as he seems, maybe he IS deserving of the highest office in the land. Until I am convinced, I have to stick with Hillary. I'm not taking any chances.

The Obama sex scandal.
http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Larry_Sinclair

Hillary and her campaign knows all of this, which is why she is staying in the race waiting for Obama to self-destruct.

 

[MaGZ]

First I would like to say blind patriotism is very dangerous. I don't like patriotism, second, obama, hilary and mccain are all pretty much the same when it comes to their voting records, third, it's all a puppet show. they have already picked their president they give you the illusion that YOU choose who you want as president, but you only have a choice as of now, to who THEY put out there. Obama belongs to them (CFR) hilary belongs to them(CFR) and mccain belongs to them (CFR) kucinich, paul and gravel were the only ones that I know of who are NOT in the CFR and would ALL make better presidents than the 3 stooges you have to choose from right now. So in conclusion, it is all smoke and mirrors, fixed, rigged, etc. Best thing you can do is hope obama finds a conscious what's he's in the white house.

Please document that Obama is connected to the Council on Foreign Relations.

 

[MaGZ]

It's can't be a red herring since your post implied that he was wrong on Mandela. I just confirmed that in that one instance he was correct. I could go into the reason for many states reluctance to not have an MLK holiday but you do not appear to be interested in that. On Quinn's neo-confederate ideas I agree with you and McCain should never have associated with him especially with his ties to Duke, a person that the GOP long ago ,rightfully, threw under the bus. As to dubious sources just Google Mandela and terrorism and you will get the same information from every one. Some excusing the behavior and others condemning it but none denying it. As to your mention of the Nobel, Yasser Arafat also received it so it is not unprecedented that the peace prize went to a terrorist.

MLK’s links to communists

http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King,_Jr.

 

[Iamme]

That appears to be all it is. The right-wing blogs are filled with various kinds of exaggerations and misinformation about Ayers and Obama, especially when it comes to this episode. Maybe poster BPSCG can explain where he got his information from, because it doesn't show up in any MSM articles (that I can find) as he stated it.

Was listening to Sean Hannity on the radio while driving around, as usual. He went on a rant for the longest time about these associations and moral character and he is not going to let up on these subjects.

 

[Texas]

As an attack on Nelson Mandela himself, this is all very inaccurate bollocks indeed.

1) Necklacing (not "necklasing") started off in a big way in the 1980's -- when Mandela was in prison, and had been so for quite some time already. Nelson Mandela himself had no connection to necklacing whatsoever.

2) The charges on which Mandela was put in prison included the initial charge of "leading workers in a strike" (pretty bad stuff, huh, huh? How so terribly terribly terroristic) and getting other countries to invade South Africa (risible, and flatly denied).

3) The ANC condemned the practice of necklacing at the time, during the 1980's.

4) Several incidents of necklacing were carried out by the perps in the name of the ANC, but certainly not under ANC orders nor with the permission of the ANC.

5) Nelson Mandela himself condemned various (other) breaches of human rights by ANC bodies/members, and insisted on the breaches remaining named in the investigative body's report.


I'ld suggest you leave off the risibly inaccurate anti-Nelson smears; you might have more grounds for accusing Winnie, but Winnie does not and did not equal the ANC.

Thanks for the spelling lesson. As to Mandela, he was offered full pardons continuously with the only condition that he personally renounce the violence of the ANC. He refused. His refusal was tacit approval of their tactics. There is no dispute that Mandela while free approved attacks on civilian targets. I gave no opinion on the rightness or wrongness of his cause. His organisation just like the Red Brigade, the PLO, Black September, the Irgun and various other "liberation movements" of that time
committed acts of terrorism in the name of their causes.

 

[Texas]

MLK’s links to communists

http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King,_Jr.

Communist ties or not, MLK never used violence against his adversaries, like his non-Communist adversaries used against him. I disagreed vehemently with his stances on everything outside of his civil rights cause. I also admired his bravery.

 

[Pookster]

Was listening to Sean Hannity on the radio while driving around, as usual. He went on a rant for the longest time about these associations and moral character and he is not going to let up on these subjects.

Hannity is just doing his "thing". He tends to be more noise than signal.

Interesting article about this here ...

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/showtracker/2008/04/stephanopoulos.html

Amid a storm of criticism that Wednesday’s Democratic presidential debate focused too heavily on “gotcha” questions and not enough on substance, ABC News’ George Stephanopoulos defended his decision to ask Illinois Sen. Barack Obama about his relationship with former political radical William Ayers. Stephanopoulos denied he’d been spoon-fed the question by Fox News host Sean Hannity.

“We have been researching this for a while,” Stephanopoulos said in a phone interview from New York. ABC News political correspondent Jake Tapper, he said, had blogged about the issue April 10, after it was first reported by Politico, the political news website. “Part of what we discovered is that Sen. Obama had never been asked directly about it, even though it’s being written about and talked about and Republicans are signaling that this is gonna be an issue in the general election.”

...

On Tuesday, as a guest on Hannity’s radio program, Stephanopoulos said, “Well, I’m taking notes now, Sean” when Hannity suggested he raise the topic of Ayers with Obama.

It's difficult to ignore Stephanopoulos ties to the Clintons for so many years. But, I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt since he seemed to be a bit ignorant of the issue before talking to Hannity, regardless of what he stated after the debate. He did hit up Clinton with the honesty/trustworthy thing. The right-wing blogs have certainly morphed the Ayers issue into something the facts we know just don't support. Then you have those who post those inaccuracies in other places as if they're substantiated facts. It's just like reading 9/11 truther conspiracy talk.

Given that this is a skeptics site, I hope people will be a little more careful with these kinds of things in the future. Repeating claims like this one without researching it is just very poor form.