Isn't it about time we learn the truth about Obama?

[Iamme]

We need to know NOW.... while Hillary is still (barely) viable, because that is only fair for her, and the people who support her. It is NOT fair to have Hillary ousted and THEN find out Obama really IS unpatriotic come November.

But... you see, my point is NOT in saying that Barack IS unpatriotic. Just so we are perfectly clear here.

Maybe the news shows have unfairly come to those conclusions. Maybe he sat in that church for 20 years putting Wright on ignore (in so many words), just so he could gain recognition being with 'his people'. You really can't blame him for that. OPRAH was there. Why was SHE originally there...at THAT particular church? Is that church consided THE black church, if you want to have any standing in the black community? If it is, then can we really fault Barack for going there?

And the (terrorist)Ayers issue. Are some of the news channels making a relationship here that really isn't? I want the truth. Barack, in his speeches really SOUNDS patriotic and sincere. But those associations seem to be at a conflict.

Or, IS Obama a fraud and a rouser of the people like H.....was, and wants to gain power at all costs by sounding good?

I want the truth...NOW.

What is the truth?

 

[Puppycow]

I want the truth...NOW.

What is the truth?

Oh great. Another troofer.

 

[Iamme]

Oh great. Another troofer.

I'm serious on this. To the point that it is almost worthy of a gov't investigation. We can't have no President in office who shmoozes with terrorist types, and contemptible unpatriotic people. This goes way beyond something like sex scandals. If he is not guilty of any of this, let the truth be known and lets put this to rest. If Barack is as sincere as he seems, maybe he IS deserving of the highest office in the land. Until I am convinced, I have to stick with Hillary. I'm not taking any chances.

 

[Puppycow]

I'm serious on this. To the point that it is almost worthy of a gov't investigation.

Maybe the government could have a committee for investigating un-American activities! Paging Joe McCarthy.

We can't have no President in office who shmoozes with terrorist types, and contemptible unpatriotic people.

Well that eliminates all of 'em. There's already a thread about the "terrorist types, and contemptible unpatriotic people" John McCain shmoozes with. One could be started for Hillary too, but why bother at this point.

This goes way beyond something like sex scandals. If he is not guilty of any of this, let the truth be known and lets put this to rest. If Barack is as sincere as he seems, maybe he IS deserving of the highest office in the land. Until I am convinced, I have to stick with Hillary. I'm not taking any chances.

OK, suit yourself. But the nomination is just about all sewn up already.

 

[corplinx]

The truth is, Obama is secretly a big fan of the Police Academy movies.

 

[Brainster]

I'm serious on this. To the point that it is almost worthy of a gov't investigation. We can't have no President in office who shmoozes with terrorist types, and contemptible unpatriotic people. This goes way beyond something like sex scandals. If he is not guilty of any of this, let the truth be known and lets put this to rest. If Barack is as sincere as he seems, maybe he IS deserving of the highest office in the land. Until I am convinced, I have to stick with Hillary. I'm not taking any chances.

Let me just say here that the American people are absolutely free to elect an unpatriotic person who schmoozes with terrorist types and contemptible, unpatriotic people.

However, I don't expect them to.

 

[Whack01]

Saying that we're somehow to blame for 9/11 is basically what the preachers on the far right did as well (as has already been pointed out, google "falwell 9/11 " if you're unaware). Naturally we can't blame the terrorists, we need to demagogue one another. After all that's how we get a rise out of people & entertain them. I don't think this justifies what Wright did, I dislike both. However, the bottom line is that McCain associates himself with these men just as Obama does his. A black mark on both of their candidacies if you ask me.

 

[Kestrel]

Saying that we're somehow to blame for 9/11 is basically what the preachers on the far right did as well (as has already been pointed out, google "falwell 9/11 " if you're unaware). Naturally we can't blame the terrorists, we need to demagogue one another. After all that's how we get a rise out of people & entertain them. I don't think this justifies what Wright did, I dislike both. However, the bottom line is that McCain associates himself with these men just as Obama does his. A black mark on both of their candidacies if you ask me.

We really are a pathetic excuse for a free country if associating with someone who expresses politically incorrect thoughts is seen as equivalent to expressing those thoughts yourself.

Does the free expression of ideas scare you that much?

 

[ronpaulisright]

We need to know NOW.... while Hillary is still (barely) viable, because that is only fair for her, and the people who support her. It is NOT fair to have Hillary ousted and THEN find out Obama really IS unpatriotic come November.

But... you see, my point is NOT in saying that Barack IS unpatriotic. Just so we are perfectly clear here.

Maybe the news shows have unfairly come to those conclusions. Maybe he sat in that church for 20 years putting Wright on ignore (in so many words), just so he could gain recognition being with 'his people'. You really can't blame him for that. OPRAH was there. Why was SHE originally there...at THAT particular church? Is that church consided THE black church, if you want to have any standing in the black community? If it is, then can we really fault Barack for going there?

And the (terrorist)Ayers issue. Are some of the news channels making a relationship here that really isn't? I want the truth. Barack, in his speeches really SOUNDS patriotic and sincere. But those associations seem to be at a conflict.

Or, IS Obama a fraud and a rouser of the people like H.....was, and wants to gain power at all costs by sounding good?

I want the truth...NOW.

What is the truth?

First I would like to say blind patriotism is very dangerous. I don't like patriotism, second, obama, hilary and mccain are all pretty much the same when it comes to their voting records, third, it's all a puppet show. they have already picked their president they give you the illusion that YOU choose who you want as president, but you only have a choice as of now, to who THEY put out there. Obama belongs to them (CFR) hilary belongs to them(CFR) and mccain belongs to them (CFR) kucinich, paul and gravel were the only ones that I know of who are NOT in the CFR and would ALL make better presidents than the 3 stooges you have to choose from right now. So in conclusion, it is all smoke and mirrors, fixed, rigged, etc. Best thing you can do is hope obama finds a conscious what's he's in the white house.

 

[AStone]

The truth is, Obama is secretly a big fan of the Police Academy movies.

Well, that's it, I'm not voting for him! Any fan of Steve Guttenberg's "acting" is obviously the devil.

The Devil!

 

[AStone]

First I would like to say blind patriotism is very dangerous. I don't like patriotism, second, obama, hilary and mccain are all pretty much the same when it comes to their voting records, third, it's all a puppet show. they have already picked their president they give you the illusion that YOU choose who you want as president, but you only have a choice as of now, to who THEY put out there. Obama belongs to them (CFR) hilary belongs to them(CFR) and mccain belongs to them (CFR) kucinich, paul and gravel were the only ones that I know of who are NOT in the CFR and would ALL make better presidents than the 3 stooges you have to choose from right now. So in conclusion, it is all smoke and mirrors, fixed, rigged, etc. Best thing you can do is hope obama finds a conscious what's he's in the white house.

I think that Bill Hicks summed it up quite well: "I choose the puppet on the left." "Well, I choose the puppet on the right."

"Wait a minute, it's the same guy holding both puppets!"


Thanks for mentioning Gravel, who, I think, was the only one worth a damn.

 

[fuelair]

We need to know NOW.... while Hillary is still (barely) viable, because that is only fair for her, and the people who support her. It is NOT fair to have Hillary ousted and THEN find out Obama really IS unpatriotic come November.

But... you see, my point is NOT in saying that Barack IS unpatriotic. Just so we are perfectly clear here.

Maybe the news shows have unfairly come to those conclusions. Maybe he sat in that church for 20 years putting Wright on ignore (in so many words), just so he could gain recognition being with 'his people'. You really can't blame him for that. OPRAH was there. Why was SHE originally there...at THAT particular church? Is that church consided THE black church, if you want to have any standing in the black community? If it is, then can we really fault Barack for going there?

And the (terrorist)Ayers issue. Are some of the news channels making a relationship here that really isn't? I want the truth. Barack, in his speeches really SOUNDS patriotic and sincere. But those associations seem to be at a conflict.

Or, IS Obama a fraud and a rouser of the people like H.....was, and wants to gain power at all costs by sounding good?

I want the truth...NOW.

What is the truth?

Actually, what you want is for the news to be like it was 30+ years ago when reporters were out investigating stuff, trying to seperate fact from fiction with secret meetings, etc and then reporting it.. Not what we have now where the reporters are actually news readers with opinions. Good luck with that.

 

[moon1969]

Because of Mike Gravel and other war protesters USA abandoned the south vietnamese. Yeah thanks alot. Gravel and the pentagon papers? LOL

 

[Darth Rotor]

I want the truth...NOW.

What is the truth?

Colonel Jessup voice*

"You can't handle the truth!"

The truth about the UCC is that, among other things, it fulfilled a need that was being unmet. How do you feel about that, Iamme? As to Obama not playing along with the pledge of allegiance, IMO he's sending a message. Not everyone cares for that message. The lapel pin? Another message.

Let's not confuse Obama with Rev Wright, Wright is not the guy running for office. Obama is. Do you think Rev Wright has puppeteer powers over Obama?

DR

 

[Puppycow]

Because of Mike Gravel and other war protesters USA abandoned the south vietnamese. Yeah thanks alot. Gravel and the pentagon papers? LOL

Which was a good thing. Ever hear of the My Lai Massacre^WP?

The My Lai Massacre was the mass murder of 347 to 504 unarmed citizens of the Republic of Vietnam (South Vietnam), almost entirely civilians and majority of them women and children, conducted by U.S. Army forces on March 16, 1968. Before being killed some of the victims were raped and sexually molested, beaten, tortured, or maimed. Some of the dead bodies were also mutilated.[1]

The problem with wars like Iraq and Vietnam is that they put young American kids in situations that many of them are not prepared to handle. So you get atrocities like My Lai, Abu Ghraib, Haditha, the Blackwater Baghdad shootings^WP, tanks running over unfortunate Iraqi civilians who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, etc., etc. Young kids shouldn't be put in such awful situations unless it is absolutely necessary for immediate and direct US security reasons.

Now maybe you can understand why war protesters wanted to end the Vietnam war?

 

[BPSCG]

I don't know if Obama is patriotic or not. He obviously doesn't care much about the little rituals of patriotism, but that in itself doesn't make him unpatriotic. When I was growing up, most of the houses on my street had flags flying on the Fourth of July - but not mine. And yet you would be hard-pressed to find two more patriotic people than my parents.

So I don't think anyone can say that they know Obama is unpatriotic because he doesn't wear a flag lapel pin or put his hand over his heart when someone is singing The Star-Spangled Banner. You don't know if someone is patriotic unless you know what's going on inside his head, or unless, given a zero-sum chance to choose between his country's welfare and his own, he chooses that of his country.

 

[fuelair]

Which was a good thing. Ever hear of the My Lai Massacre^WP?


[qimg]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/My_Lai_massacre.jpg[/qimg]

The problem with wars like Iraq and Vietnam is that they put young American kids in situations that many of them are not prepared to handle. So you get atrocities like My Lai, Abu Ghraib, Haditha, the Blackwater Baghdad shootings^WP, tanks running over unfortunate Iraqi civilians who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, etc., etc. Young kids shouldn't be put in such awful situations unless it is absolutely necessary for immediate and direct US security reasons.

Now maybe you can understand why war protesters wanted to end the Vietnam war?

I did - but I was over there. But don't forget the chopper and the door gunner keeping the troops from getting at least some of the villagers. A real shame that little pile of feces Calley didn't challenge the chopper.



ETA:I have few heroes - that chopper crew is among them.

 

[Upchurch]

I don't know if Obama is patriotic or not. He obviously doesn't care much about the little rituals of patriotism, but that in itself doesn't make him unpatriotic.

See? We don't always disagree.

Pardon the simile, but patriotism can be like religion: just because you go to church on Sunday, that does not necessarily mean you are a good Christian. Likewise, not going to church on Sunday does not necessarily make you a bad Christian.

By (nearly) all accounts, Wright's sermons did not usually stray into the "God Damn America" subject areas. Obama did not pal around with Ayers, they just happened to be on a committee together. (IIRC, Ayers joined after Obama had.) Obama has been serving in Illinois and US legislatures for a little over a decade.

Is there anything Obama has said or done to indicate that he isn't patriotic?

 

[Tricky]

In my opinion, some the greatest patriots are those who love their country so much that they want to prevent it from doing the wrong thing. Sometimes this means criticizing some other patriots. (Not all patriots agree on everything.)

Saying "My country is always right" is not good patriotism.

 

[BPSCG]

By (nearly) all accounts, Wright's sermons did not usually stray into the "God Damn America" subject areas.

How often did they have to before they became intolerable?

Obama did not pal around with Ayers, they just happened to be on a committee together. (IIRC, Ayers joined after Obama had.) Obama has been serving in Illinois and US legislatures for a little over a decade.

That's not correct. Ayers hosted the campaign kickoff fundraiser for Obama's first State Senate run. That speaks to far more than a casual relationship.

Is there anything Obama has said or done to indicate that he isn't patriotic?

As I said, I don't know if he's patriotic or not, because I don't know what he thinks, and he's never been asked to choose between his own welfare and that of the country.

But I do know that he seems to have some very important people in his life who have serious grievances with America, grievances that go far beyond the grievances most people have. That may be evidence that he's unpatriotic. Or it may be evidence that he's a lot more broad-minded than I am - I wouldn't go to a second sermon after hearing a postor ask for God to damn America, I wouldn't get within a country mile of an urban terrorist who wanted to host my campaign kickoff fundraiser, and I certainly wouldn't marry anyone who couldn't think of anything about America that she was proud of. Who knows? All I can say is that I've seen some evidence that he may be unpatriotic (perhaps we need to define that term somewhere so we all agree on what we're talking about, hm?), but it's not convincing evidence.