Info about DNA recovery at WTC?

[aggle-rithm]

Truthers have no idea what they're babbling about. That's why we need a new investigation!

 

[defaultdotxbe]

Known vehicle------------Known stop or site---------= trail of DNA
-rental--Car------------------>Hotel room---------- = trail pf DNA

not to mention other known locations, like hotels in other cities and apartments, and i think at least one didnt have his bags loaded on the plane, so DNA could have been recovered there too

sizzler: if K means known identity (as opposed to known origin as your quote states) why were the samples not labeled with names? why do the death certs state john doe? wouldnt they use real names if they knew them?

or is the fbi deliberately leaving clues so some internet super sleuth can crack the case?

 

[DGM]

Truthers have no idea what they're babbling about. That's why we need a new investigation!

I agree! We need a new investigation into what the "truthers" are going on about. I'm finding it increasingly difficult to follow their line of reason (if they even have one). Personally I think they're running out of ideas.

 

[Par]

The difference is that the DNA from the hotel was given to the examiner labeled as KNOWNS. That is not possible.

This thread seems like madness to me. Even so, I’ll have another go.

DNA Profile X was found in a hotel room used by the hijackers. It was also found in a hire car used by the hijackers. It was also found amongst the debris at the World Trade Center site. Therefore, it’s all but certain that DNA Profile X belongs to one of the hijackers. They don’t know specifically which one, but they know that it’s one of them.

Now, I say “all but certain” because it’s just about possible – that is, technically within the practically limitless bounds of possibility – that DNA Profile X really belongs to an innocent victim who had recently stayed in that same hotel room and had recently used that same hire car and just so happened to have been killed at the World Trade Center on September 11th 2001.

However, it’s about as conclusive as one can hope for in an empirical world.

If, on the other hand, your criticism is merely that DNA Profile X shouldn’t have been labelled as “KNOWN” when it was only known to have come from one of ten people, then you’d need to present evidence to show that doing so represents improper procedure. (Even if you manage to do that, you’ve still not proven a “cover-up”; at best you’d have exposed an example of improper procedure that ultimately could have had little to no real-world consequences.)

 

[pomeroo]

Here is my theory. You're a moron.

Wait--I thought he was an agnostic.

 

[pomeroo]

So I made the claim that the DNA evidence of hijackers at WTC is false.

It has been established that hijacker's DNA was identified at the Pentagon and Shanksville by process of elimination. Thus the FBI did not have hijacker DNA to compare crash samples to.

They did however have the DNA of the 10 hijackers at the WTC. They collected these samples from hotel room hair and rental car steering wheels.

This DNA was used to make positive matches to 3 DNA samples found in the WTC event. They positively matched the known hijacker samples.

So my question is;

How did they make a positive match of the DNA found at the hotels and on the rental car wheels?

Surely there were plenty of individual's DNA found at a hotel and on a rental car wheel given their very nature.

How did the FBI know what specific hair or skin cell was that of the 10 hijackers? And, even if they only found 10 samples, how could they ever conclude they were the hijacker's DNA? Why not anyone else that rented the room or car?

This is proof of a cover-up by FBI.

Yes, it is certainly proof of something, but not a cover-up by the FBI.

 

[Alt+F4]

Here is my theory.

DNA records are false.

Well you are entitled to your theory. Why don't you conduct your own investigation? Start with the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology.

The Armed Forces Institute of Pathology (AFIP) responded to the tragic events of September 11 by providing a multidisciplinary team of more than 50 forensic specialists, scientists, and support personnel to the Dover Air Force Base morgue. This team conducted one of the most comprehensive forensic investigations in U.S. history. AFIP staff also deployed to the Pentagon Family Assistance Center to establish a DNA reference collections operation, and to Somerset County, Pennsylvania, to collect tissue specimens recovered from the crash site for DNA analysis. All DNA analysis took place at the Institute's Armed Forces DNA Identification Laboratory, using the talents of over 45 DNA scientists and support personnel.

Linky: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3912/is_200209/ai_n9086520

 

[Confuseling]

You can also racially profile people from DNA samples (doesn't mtDNA vary according to race?). It's controversial, and not wholly reliable, but I wouldn't be surprised if it could help lend weight to one sample over another.

 

[LibraryLady]

Please everyone, settle down and be civil. Attack the argument. Follow the MA.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: LibraryLady

 

[LastChild]

Oh bother I skimmed though this and I can't believe all the tantrums being thrown...
well that's not true. Sure I can.

Anyway the hijackers were not identified except for who they weren't. Process of elimination from the passengers. Passengers who were supposedly matched to family DNA. This was not done with the hijackers. If you don't know who was in the hotel room or in the car then it doesn't matter if you match them to a crash site. What if the guy in the room and in the car was using a stolen ID?

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/21/inv.id.theft/

(CNN) -- FBI Director Robert Mueller has acknowledged that some of those behind last week's terror attacks may have stolen the identification of other people, and, according to at least one security expert, it may have been "relatively easy" based on their level of sophistication.

A week later FBI Director Mueller acknowledged that investigators may not know the true identities of some of the 19 suspected hijackers and made this confusing statement on Sept. 21, 2001,

In the following quote the FBI talks about how they identified several hijackers but still haven't several others. The ones they are claiming to have identified are from the car and the hotel which isn't positive identification of anything if that person was using fake identification and if the car and the hotel was used by more then one person. Which is safe to say a rental car and a hotel is used by many.

http://tinyurl.com/knv2y

"We have several hijackers whose identities were those of the names on the manifests," Mueller said. "We have several others that are still in question. The investigation is ongoing, and I am not certain as to several of the others."

Finally in addition to no DNA...

www.fbi.gov/pressrel/speeches/speech041902.htm

“The hijackers also left no paper trail. In our investigation, we have not uncovered a single piece of paper – either here in the U.S. or in the treasure trove of information that has turned up in Afghanistan and elsewhere – that mentioned any aspect of the September 11th plot”.

 

[pomeroo]

Oh bother I skimmed though this and I can't believe all the tantrums being thrown...
well that's not true. Sure I can.

Anyway the hijackers were not identified except for who they weren't. Process of elimination from the passengers. Passengers who were supposedly matched to family DNA. This was not done with the hijackers. If you don't know who was in the hotel room or in the car then it doesn't matter if you match them to a crash site. What if the guy in the room and in the car was using a stolen ID?

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/21/inv.id.theft/

(CNN) -- FBI Director Robert Mueller has acknowledged that some of those behind last week's terror attacks may have stolen the identification of other people, and, according to at least one security expert, it may have been "relatively easy" based on their level of sophistication.

A week later FBI Director Mueller acknowledged that investigators may not know the true identities of some of the 19 suspected hijackers and made this confusing statement on Sept. 21, 2001,

In the following quote the FBI talks about how they identified several hijackers but still haven't several others. The ones they are claiming to have identified are from the car and the hotel which isn't positive identification of anything if that person was using fake identification and if the car and the hotel was used by more then one person. Which is safe to say a rental car and a hotel is used by many.

http://tinyurl.com/knv2y

"We have several hijackers whose identities were those of the names on the manifests," Mueller said. "We have several others that are still in question. The investigation is ongoing, and I am not certain as to several of the others."

Finally in addition to no DNA...

www.fbi.gov/pressrel/speeches/speech041902.htm

“The hijackers also left no paper trail. In our investigation, we have not uncovered a single piece of paper – either here in the U.S. or in the treasure trove of information that has turned up in Afghanistan and elsewhere – that mentioned any aspect of the September 11th plot”.

Aren't you the tricky one! It's a shame we won't notice that you link to articles dated September 21, 2001. If only someone could point out that the FBI announced that it had resolved all doubts by November 2001.

http://911myths.com/html/doubts_over_hijackers_identity.html

 

[LastChild]

Aren't you the tricky one! It's a shame we won't notice that you link to articles dated September 21, 2001. If only someone could point out that the FBI announced that it had resolved all doubts by November 2001.

http://911myths.com/html/doubts_over_hijackers_identity.html

Yes it's a shame for you and your fable ..

Mueller provided no new information on the hijackers' identities beyond his statement at a briefing Friday for reporters. Neither did he name any of the places abroad where authorities now believe the conspiracy was initiated, or any of the other conspirators.

Now why don't you go down the list and show how each and every hijacker was positively identified. Shall I start a new thread or will you be doing a Hardfire show on it that no one who matters will see?

 

[A W Smith]

The last troll and his old news.

I only had to read the first sentence you posted in this thread to suspect you are posting old news. And as soon as I clicked on your link, It was confirmed. Debunked ! TROLL!!

Yes it's a shame for you and your fable ..

Mueller provided no new information on the hijackers' identities beyond his statement at a briefing Friday for reporters. Neither did he name any of the places abroad where authorities now believe the conspiracy was initiated, or any of the other conspirators.

Now why don't you go down the list and show how each and every hijacker was positively identified. Shall I start a new thread or will you be doing a Hardfire show on it that no one who matters will see?

The FBI has resolved questions about the identities of the 19 hijackers involved in the Sept. 11 attacks and has discovered places outside the United States where the conspiracy was planned, FBI Director Robert Mueller said Friday.

Saudi Arabian officials and others have questioned whether some of the hijackers identified by the FBI in the weeks after the attacks used stolen identifications. Mueller said those questions have been answered.

"We at this point definitely know the 19 hijackers who were responsible," he said.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/11/02/attack/main316806.shtm

 

[LastChild]

I only had to read the first sentence you posted in this thread to suspect you are posting old news. And as soon as I clicked on your link, It was confirmed. Debunked ! TROLL!!

Sayin ain't provin.

NEXT

 

[A W Smith]

1. Hijackers names on flight manifests
2. Several of tickets bought with credit card under hijackers names.
3. Rental cars found in airport parking lot rented to hijacker.
4. Video of hijackers at security check points
5. Hotel records
6. Phone calls from flight attendants stating the approx. location of hijackers.
7. Cockpit voice recorders showing some sort of a struggle.
8. Martyr videos from several hijackers.
9. A good bye letter from one hijacker to his girlfriend
10. Not ONE hijackers has come forward to say they were:
a. falsely accused
b. not dead.
11. DNA evidence.
a. brothers at Pentagon were discovered
b. some..again some of the hijackers DNA at other areas were found and
matched with collected DNA from the FBI.
c. the remainder of the DNA evidence that could not be matched with victims, would be assumed that of the hijackers.
12. Saudi government admitting that many hijackers were in fact Saudi's.
13. Family's of all the hijackers haven't seen their kin since prior to 911.

 

[johnny karate]

1. Hijackers names on flight manifests
2. Several of tickets bought with credit card under hijackers names.
3. Rental cars found in airport parking lot rented to hijacker.
4. Video of hijackers at security check points
5. Hotel records
6. Phone calls from flight attendants stating the approx. location of hijackers.
7. Cockpit voice recorders showing some sort of a struggle.
8. Martyr videos from several hijackers.
9. A good bye letter from one hijacker to his girlfriend
10. Not ONE hijackers has come forward to say they were:
a. falsely accused
b. not dead.
11. DNA evidence.
a. brothers at Pentagon were discovered
b. some..again some of the hijackers DNA at other areas were found and
matched with collected DNA from the FBI.
c. the remainder of the DNA evidence that could not be matched with victims, would be assumed that of the hijackers.
12. Saudi government admitting that many hijackers were in fact Saudi's.
13. Family's of all the hijackers haven't seen their kin since prior to 911.

All of which is documented and sourced here.

Is there anything else we can help you with today, LastChild.

 

[LastChild]

All of which is documented and sourced here.

Is there anything else we can help you with today, LastChild.

Yes you can list all 19 hijackers and show how they were all positively identified. Hurry up everybody is watching.

So far you fail.

DNA from a hotel and a rental car is positive identification of what? The fake ID they used when they checked in? And did they even do that much for all 19?

NEXT

 

[A W Smith]

http://www.debunk911myths.org/topics/Hijackers

Penttbom (Pentagon Twin Towers Bombing) is the name used by the FBI for the investigation into the 9/11 attacks.[2] The investigation was coordinated from the Special Information and Operations Center at FBI headquarters, with 4,000 special agents and 3,000 support staff initially involved.[2]
Authorities were quickly able to determine the identity of the hijackers, as they did not make attempts to disguise their identities. Investigators scrutinized the passenger lists and identified some that were trained at Huffman Aviation School in Venice, Florida. More key clues were found in vehicles left behind at the airports. When two of the hijackers arrived at Logan Airport, they got into an argument with another driver over a parking space.[3] When that other driver arrived at his destination, he learned about the attacks and recalled the other driver (and passenger) were Arab.[3] He called authorities, drawing them to the parking lot where they obtained early clues in the investigation.[3] The vehicle was a white Mitsubishi from National Car Rental, which had inside a flight manual in Arabic and clues that led authorities to Huffman Aviation.[3] Other critical clues were found in Mohamed Atta's luggage which did not make it onto American Airlines Flight 11.

Forensic identification
In addition to identification of victims, the remains of all the hijackers of American Airlines Flight 77 were found at the Pentagon and their DNA forensically identified.[6] The remains of all the hijackers of United Airlines Flight 93 were found at the crash site near Shanksville and their DNA was forensically identified.[6] Remains of three of the hijackers were found and identified through DNA testing at the Ground Zero.[7]

• AFIP Responds to September 11th Pentagon Terrorist Attacks - Armed Forces Institute of Pathology (Fall 2001)
• Forensic feat IDs all but five of Pentagon victims
• Reif, W. "September 11: how they identified the victims", The Lancet, Volume 360, Issue 9335, Pages 807-808

 

[LastChild]

http://www.debunk911myths.org/topics/Hijackers

Forensically identified to what? Did their families give DNA like the passengers families? NO.

NEXT

 

[pomeroo]

Yes it's a shame for you and your fable ..

Mueller provided no new information on the hijackers' identities beyond his statement at a briefing Friday for reporters. Neither did he name any of the places abroad where authorities now believe the conspiracy was initiated, or any of the other conspirators.

Now why don't you go down the list and show how each and every hijacker was positively identified. Shall I start a new thread or will you be doing a Hardfire show on it that no one who matters will see?

As always, your performance is breathtaking. You continue to cite statements made earlier than November 2001. You ask us to read Mueller's speech (you really should attempt it yourself), which undermines your latest fantasy.

http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/speeches/speech041902.htm


Normally, you are clumsily deceptive and embarrassingly obtuse. Here, you appear to be in the throes of a nervous breakdown.