Time Zones are a cover story!

[slyjoe]

I've asked this before, and someone here answered it nicely, but I currently cannot locate the thread, so I'll ask again:

The time zone changes as the fighters fly over differing states, but if you're going the same distance in the same amount of time, how could the TZC affect how long the travel actually took? If it took the fighters, for example, 25 minutes from being scrambled to locating the Leerjet, how does the TZC extend the time of the intercept?

It doesn't extend the time. In "Loose Change", they claimed it took 21 minutes to intercept Payne Stewart's plane. The trouble was, the takeoff was noted in Eastern time, and the intercept in Central time. They forgot to add the time zone difference of 60 minutes; the intercept took 85 minutes.

Example: Plane contact lost at 09:33 EDT.
Interceptor intercepts plane at 09:54 CDT.

This is not 21 minutes as claimed, but 81 minutes.

 

[Blender Head]

It doesn't extend the time. In "Loose Change", they claimed it took 21 minutes to intercept Payne Stewart's plane. The trouble was, the takeoff was noted in Eastern time, and the intercept in Central time. They forgot to add the time zone difference of 60 minutes; the intercept took 85 minutes.

Example: Plane contact lost at 09:33 EDT.
Interceptor intercepts plane at 09:54 CDT.

This is not 21 minutes as claimed, but 81 minutes.

Oh, how very tricky of them!

 

[Obviousman]

It was mentioned in that thread:

UTC = EDT + 4 Hours
UTC = CDT + 5 Hours

0919 EDT (1319z) - N47BA departs MCO for DAL

0927:18 EDT (1327:18z) - N47BA acknowledged the clearance by stating, "three nine zero bravo alpha." This was the last known radio transmission from the airplane.

0933:38 EDT (1327:38z) - ATC instructs N47BA to change radio frequencies and contact another Jacksonville ARTCC. Continues to call the flight five more times over the next 4 1/2 minutes but received no response.

0952 CDT (1452z)* - USAF F-16 test pilot from the 40th FTS at Eglin AFB, Florida, was vectored to within 8 nm of N47BA.**

* About 1010 EDT, the accident airplane crossed from the EDT zone to the CDT zone in the vicinity of Eufaula, Alabama.
** This interception was at the request of the Jacksonville ARTCC, mission coordinator through the USAF.

1327z to 1452z = 1 hr 25 mins = 85 minutes.

A gross error check on the speeds was also conducted:

0819 CDT 0919 EDT - Aircraft departs Orlando.
0910 CDT 1010 EDT - (Approx) Aircraft crossed from the EDT zone to the CDT zone in the vicinity of Eufaula, Alabama.
0952 CDT 1052 EDT - USAF F-16 test pilot from the 40th FTS at Eglin AFB, Florida, was vectored to within 8 nm of N47BA.
1212 CDT 1312 EDT - Aircraft impacts in position 45 25N 098 45W.

Distance from Orlando to impact point: 1313 nautical miles (nm).
Time elapsed from Orlando to impact point: 3 hours 53 mins or 233 mins.

Average speed: [1313 (nm) / 233 (mins)] x 60 = 338 knots (or nautical miles per hour).

Distance from Orlando to Eufaula, Alabama: 289 nm.
Time elapsed from Orlando to crossing time zone boundary near Eufaula, Alabama: 51 mins.

Average speed: [289 (nm) / 51 (mins)] x 60 = 340 knots.

While we are discussing that forum, another thread has raised the "Pod People" again. Peter Lemkin linked to an article which (I think) claimed that the FLT 175 photograph just prior to impact was faked, because the UA logo on the tail was visible when it should not have been.

The author of the article used a 3D programme to show an aspect of a 767 but I feel it does not accurately match what was in the image.

Has anyone got a flight sim / 3D programme that can rotate an accurate depiction of a 767-222 to the same position as depicted in the image, and confirm or deny that the logo should not have been visible?

Thanks!

 

[Praktik]

I am sorry to have to resurrect this thread. On another board, the reaction to the time zone change was that the documents were altered post 9/11 by the conspiracists.

This Truther claims to remember watching the news with his dad, and the time of intercept being 21 minutes.

I think the best thing would be to have the jet's distance and speed calculated from where it was scrambled to where it made visual contact with Stewart's plane at 9:52. If the distance was X miles, and if we know the speed of the plane, we can demonstrate conclusively that the distance traveled required 85 mins* to complete. I dont think Stewarts calculations will be sufficient on their own for him.

Any links to such calculations anyone? What a stubborn one I tellz ya!

*THis exercise has sharpened my knowledge. RE-reading that thread a bit more closely I see its morelike 55-60 mins. Not a waste of time after all to engage in this - I learned something!

 

[Praktik]

its cool - should have clicked the link here earlier - Len Colby did it up proper!

 

[Praktik]

question: have Fetzer or Zwicker ever admitted they were wrong on this?

Any other high-profile corrections from truthers?

That might carry some weight too. When you do the math its just so obvious - how can anyone defend a 21 min intercept time??

 

[dtugg]

Twoofers are idiots and arrogant. They won't admit an error. And Jim Fezter is crazy, after all he thinks no planes hit the WTC and they were destroyed by a giant laser from outer space. He could easily just say the planes were flying at mach 3 or something to continue his fantasy

 

[gumboot]

Ahem.

I think I have it all covered.

 

[Praktik]

Ya I provided that link... Good work btw!!

I'm not sure he clicked it or if he did he must not have been able to follow along. I was thinking something in simple math and reduced a bit would make it all clearer for him, but Im thinking now it wont really matter if he's managed to create a memory of a 20 min intercept on the news nearly 10 years ago.

 

[Tweeter]

Ahem.

I think I have it all covered.

Yeah, to bad the USAF didnt learn from the Payne Stewart incident. Like they say "he who forgets the past is doomed to repeat it".

 

[T.A.M.]

I never thought I would say this, but Fetzer must be the fabled "disinfo" because there is no way someone with a college education can be THAT ****ING STUPID!!!

TAM

 

[Elizabeth I]

up until 2 years ago indiana didnt use daylight savings time because it "confused the cows"

perhaps a similar explanation can be applied to fetzer

Are you saying Fetzer is a COW? Wow, there really are wheels within wheels within wheels, aren't there?

Seriously, I don't understand. Is it alleged that there was some sort of conspiracy to murder Payne Stewart? What on earth would the motive be? And wouldn't there be an easier and less...obtrusive...way of doing it than shooting his plane down?

 

[CHF]

question: have Fetzer or Zwicker ever admitted they were wrong on this?

Any other high-profile corrections from truthers?

That might carry some weight too. When you do the math its just so obvious - how can anyone defend a 21 min intercept time??

The same way they defend "pyroclastic clouds," "free-fall speed," "cruise missile with wings" and "Silverstein pulled WTC7!"

In Twooferland repeating a lie somehow makes it true.

 

[Alt+F4]

The "truthers" should go runnin' for the hills when it comes to the Payne Stewart traagedy. Isn't it correct what when the plane was eventually intercepted no one could decide exactly what to do about it. The windows were fogged/iced, no answer on the radio, it was followed and allowed to crash rather than being shot down.

Doesn't make the military look to good.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Yeah, to bad the USAF didnt learn from the Payne Stewart incident. Like they say "he who forgets the past is doomed to repeat it".

What exactly should they have learned from it? Please specify one thing the USAF could have done differently that would have significant changed the outcome of the Stewart Incident.

Now explain how that change would have altered the results of 9/11 given that NORAD had 12 minutes warning on Flight 11, 0 minutes on Flight 175, 3 minutes on Flight 77 and -4 minutes on Flight 93.

 

[beachnut]

Yeah, to bad the USAF didnt learn from the Payne Stewart incident. Like they say "he who forgets the past is doomed to repeat it".

Yeah, Too bad Fetzer does not understand time.

Yeah, Too bad you do not understand the USAF, NORAD, or the events of 9/11.

Yeah, Too bad you have no evidence to support your ideas on 9/11.

Payne Stewart lost of pressurization and tragic accident is to 9/11 events, as "too bad" is to "to bad".

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3345092&postcount=1

Too bad you have nothing to say about reality.

 

[chillzero]

A reminder to please keep treads on topic, and civil.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: chillzero

 

[Obviousman]

question: have Fetzer or Zwicker ever admitted they were wrong on this?

What? The omnipotent Fetzer admit he was wrong? Surely you jest!

 

[JamesB]

Hey, this is the same guy who said that it KC-767 could have been used at the World Trade Center. You know, those same planes that Boeing is trying to get the contract to build, now, in 2008. What is one hour off compared to 7 years?

 

[JoeyDonuts]

Hey, this is the same guy who said that it KC-767 could have been used at the World Trade Center. You know, those same planes that Boeing is trying to get the contract to build, now, in 2008. What is one hour off compared to 7 years?

Easy. Most 9/11 plane conspiracies depend on some sort of time acceleration device...