WTC collapses - Layman's terms again

[Blender Head]

Embarrassment is the sincerest form of flattery.


Wait a second...

 

[NobbyNobbs]

I suppose if you keep on posting the same debunked baloney, eventually it will come true?

I'm curious as to whether I am considered a clown, a monkey, or some new freakish hybrid of the two for my contributions to pointing out the glaring errors in the prior thread.

I vote hybrid.

 

[CHF]

Actually, if the collapse is initiated as alleged by NIST, the uppr block could only slice some floors of the lower structure before the collapse is arrested

Yeah, a dynamic load weighing as much as the Titanic or an aircraft carrier should have been stopped by floor slabs.

I think I understand why you don't design skyscrapers.

My text has been peer reviewed by some very clever guys that liked it

Uh huh. And it will appear in....which journal?

 

[CHF]

Heiwa,

did you really compare a 110 story skyscraper to a plastic garden table with four legs?

Seriously?

 

[Myriad]

I imagine, based on my own experiences with developmentally disabled people my own age, that the people in that video, and their coaches or teachers, worked pretty hard to create that performance.

I don't think they did it to be used to insult people on the Internet.

I'm not pretending to be horribly offended or anything. Just saying what I think.

Respectfully,
Myriad

 

[Heiwa]

Seems like your paper failed. You should have been a structural engineer who builds real tall buildings, your work is a mess and totally clueless. Your only support with come from people who are biased on some issue and blindly support 9/11 truth, or people who lack knowledge on this subject and all of 9/11.

http://www.911podcasts.com/files/audio/StevenJones_LeslieRobertson_20061026.mp3

The chief structural engineer for the WTC, agrees with me and you are wrong.

Heiwa says this about 33,000 tons, that is 66 million pounds, and a floor of the WTC can only hold 25 million pounds! Why did the WTC fall? Your paper is flawed, why did you post this tripe again?

Really poor job.

Thanks for comments. If you read carefully you find that of the 33 000 tons (WTC1) about 10 000 tonnes (carried by two perimeter walls) are shifted outside of the building due to misalignment and cannot do much harm. The remaining weight 10 000 tons carried by the other walls will evidently slice through the floors below in the lower structure and 13 000 tons carried by the core will also do some local damage ... before collapse is arrested.

Because 10 000 tons are outside the lower structure at two walls, the lower structure fights back there! It will slice apart the lower floors of the upper block (that is supposed to be indestructible by NIST & Co).

So the collapse is unsymmetrical from the start and not symmetrical as suggested by NIST & Co. And the wall columns are never damaged. And due to this unsymmetry und undamaged wall columns, the collapse will be arrested after a few floors in the upper block and lower structure are damaged locally. No way that the strong columns of the lower structure will be broken like spaghetti sticks. There is no load on them!

Not too difficult to understand? So I just ask NIST to redo its analysis. The ball is in its court.

 

[gumboot]

Thanks for comments. If you read carefully you find that of the 33 000 tons (WTC1) about 10 000 tonnes (carried by two perimeter walls) are shifted outside of the building due to misalignment and cannot do much harm.

So if I'm on a motorbike 1m wide and I'm hit by a truck 3m wide, 66% of the truck "cannot do much harm" because it's outside my motorbike? Right...

 

[DC]

So if I'm on a motorbike 1m wide and I'm hit by a truck 3m wide, 66% of the truck "cannot do much harm" because it's outside my motorbike? Right...

when the truck falls on you?

 

[tanabear]

Yeah, a dynamic load weighing as much as the Titanic or an aircraft carrier should have been stopped by floor slabs.

I think I understand why you don't design skyscrapers.

Uh huh. And it will appear in....which journal?

If the mass above the area of impact in the North Tower weighed as much as the Titanic, then it weighed that much before the plane hit it. The majority of the core and perimeter columns were not severed by the plane impact. So what severed the rest of the core and perimeter columns?

How long did it take for the Titanic to reach the bottom of the ocean after it broke apart and began to sink? Compare the rate of its descent to the bottom of the ocean to the rate at which the top part of the North Tower crushed the part beneath it. Which should go faster?

 

[AZCat]

How long did it take for the Titanic to reach the bottom of the ocean after it broke apart and began to sink? Compare the rate of its descent to the bottom of the ocean to the rate at which the top part of the North Tower crushed the part beneath it. Which should go faster?

That is one weird comparison. What do these two things have to do with each other?

 

[gumboot]

How long did it take for the Titanic to reach the bottom of the ocean after it broke apart and began to sink?

There is not a human on the planet who can possibly know the answer to that question. There's also not a human on the planet who can explain what relevance this has to the WTC collapses.

 

[uk_dave]

That is one weird comparison. What do these two things have to do with each other?

Well, it is a thread about the structural engineering of a multistorey steel structure started by a supposed marine architect. They gotta get a boat reference in there somewhere.

Tana, why don't you just go and speak with a real structural engineer? Your inability to comprehend that extremely tall, thin structures such as the unrestrained core columns couldn't remain standing after the collapse of the towers indicates that, without professional guidance by a qualified structural engineer, you are going to remain misinformed about the wtc collapse.

Try contacting structural engineers in your location and find out how much they would charge for a 2 hour consultation. The truth has gotta be worth some outlay of money, right?

 

[gumboot]

when the truck falls on you?

No I said if it hit me...

Heiwa's claim "If you read carefully you find that of the 33 000 tons (WTC1) about 10 000 tonnes (carried by two perimeter walls) are shifted outside of the building due to misalignment and cannot do much harm."

Is totally flawed.

In fact, if we take a scenario in which some of the upper structure is outside the footprint of the lower structure this actually results in more harm as the total mass of the upper section is focused into a smaller impact area.

Almost ever weapon mankind has ever made has exploited this physical phenomenon to focus the momentum of a weapon into a small area, thus increasing the power of the impact.

 

[AZCat]

Well, it is a thread about the structural engineering of a multistorey steel structure started by a supposed marine architect. They gotta get a boat reference in there somewhere.

That makes more sense than anything I was able to dream up.


Remind me - why are we going through all this again? Heiwa has proven he has no grasp of what actually happened. The guy used his BBQ table as an analogy for the collapses.

 

[uk_dave]

Heiwa's claim "If you read carefully you find that of the 33 000 tons (WTC1) about 10 000 tonnes (carried by two perimeter walls) are shifted outside of the building due to misalignment and cannot do much harm."

lol

Creative building designers the world over would be rejoicing were this to be true. Just imagine all the weird and wonderful designs they could produce if not having the upper storeys in alignment with the lower structure actually made them more stable!!!!

 

[uk_dave]

Remind me - why are we going through all this again? Heiwa has proven he has no grasp of what actually happened. The guy used his BBQ table as an analogy for the collapses.

Just waiting for the mods to merge the threads

 

[Evilgiraffe]

lol

Creative building designers the world over would be rejoicing were this to be true. Just imagine all the weird and wonderful designs they could produce if not having the upper storeys in alignment with the lower structure actually made them more stable!!!!

Like this?

What say you Heiwa?.... Could we get this to 100+ storeys?

 

[Heiwa]

So if I'm on a motorbike 1m wide and I'm hit by a truck 3m wide, 66% of the truck "cannot do much harm" because it's outside my motorbike? Right...

Being a motorbike driver since 1963 and being hit by cars a number of times I will explain.

There are at least two masses on the bike; the bike itself and you or me. The trick is to ensure, when being hit by the truck, that the truck hits the bike and not you. At the impact - and it is an impact - the impact energy is thus consumed by the bike and truck (deformation of both) while you do not impact the truck but hopefully end up on the ground besides the truck. If you are well dressed + helmet on head you will probably not impact the ground but slide on it and due to friction between your dress/helmet, you will stop. Probably unharmed. Dress/helmet may be ripped apart.

The comparison with WTC1 is obvious. WTC1 is not one solid mass of uniform density, indestructible, etc, etc, proposed by ignorant scientists but several masses as explained in the introductory message (PS to Moderator - I didn't start two identical threads but started one, nothing happened, and was asked by the software to try again). Anyway ...

The solid mass (126 columns carrying 10 000 tons) of the WTC1 upper block falling outside the structure below due misalignment will evidently not harm the structure (columns) below. It hits air! Likewise, the lowest floor of the upper block contacting the columns of the structure below has too little mass and strain energy built in to damage the 126 columns of the structure below. So there is no impact or any damage of the lower primary structure on that side of the building.

The local collapse is very unsymmetrical, to say the least.

On the other side of the buidling the wall masses of the upper block there (again 126 columns carrying 10 000 tons), will likewise not damage any columns of the lower structure there! They will only be applied to the uppermost floor of the lower structure that has very little strain energy.

One result should be, as outlined in my article, that the upper block tilts, slices some more floors of the lower structure and then due to friction against the undamaged wall columns of the lower structure and entanglement of local structural members, mainly floors, is stopped. Like the motorbike driver.

It seems that NIST does not consider this in its 10 000+ pages report!

 

[Heiwa]

Heiwa:
What do you think starting a new thread will somehow erase all the moronic things you have said? These "clowns and monkeys" (myself a proud member) are the people that could teach you what you clearly have no clear understanding about if you cared to listen. It's you that has no clue as to what your trying to sell to the ignorant people that are your audience. Your a sad little man, please get help.

I started one new thread just to present some refinements of my structural analysis of the alleged WTC gravity only driven global collapse, that I thus suggest will be arrested due to unsymmetry, local failures only of some weak structural parts, friction, gravity of course, etc. The refinements are due to, e.g. input from some knowledgable JREF members.

Then we have the clowns that try to be funny on the thread without adding any substance ... and they are not funny at all. Then the monkeys that just chatter about something else than the topic. Sad that the Moderator does not delete all that nonsense.

You can decide yourself to what group you belong. Clown or monkey or both?
Or contribute to the topic with some constructive thinking. Always welcome.

 

[Heiwa]

In fact, if we take a scenario in which some of the upper structure is outside the footprint of the lower structure this actually results in more harm as the total mass of the upper section is focused into a smaller impact area.

Almost ever weapon mankind has ever made has exploited this physical phenomenon to focus the momentum of a weapon into a small area, thus increasing the power of the impact.

Ha, ha, ha. So when the upper block misses the primary load structure (columns) of the lower structure below and instead hits air and a weak floor it increases the power of the impact.

Is this some type of NWO physics? Pls, start a new thread about it.