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Elton John Bashes Misogynists For Not Supporting Clinton

Paging Maggie Thatcher . . .
Why is the fact which I said repeatedly that there were individual women who could be responsible for wars just totally ignored in my posts. I really don't want to resort to shouting but I do wish people would read what I wrote instead of responding to what they imagine I wrote.
 
I see no response to the rest of my citations on Matthews, Pard. What's the matter? So convinced I had no case you now have nothing to say?

Matthews is such a blatant sexist, you guys need to take your feet out of your mouths. :footinmou
 
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Could it be that "women don't start wars", because a statically insignificant number of women have ever been in a position powerful enough to start wars?
It could be but that would be on the bottom of my list of possible explanations.

Are you guys seriously claiming men and women are equally violent? What planet would that be on?

Here, address it in this thread, No brainer women are less violent than men. I'm tired of arguing about something so friggin obvious.
 
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It could be but that would be on the bottom of my list of possible explanations.
I would love to see where you got sufficient data from with regards to female political and military leaders to make such a judgement.

Are you guys seriously claiming men and women are equally violent? What planet would that be on?
women in general, or women in positions of political power?
 
Take it to the other thread, brodski. And I told you, it wouldn't be my first choice, I never said there was evidence to rule it out.
 
I see no reason why the discussion could not remain in this thread, as the conversation has turned to "poor Hillary not winning because americans are misogynistic".

Personally, I would not argue with you that men are more physically violent then women.

I would though, and my wife and many of her female friends would back me up, say that women can tend to be more vindictive, and more vengeful then men.

Of course that is opinion and anecdotal evidence, and I have not the want or time to do the research on it. Then again, I am not asking you to do so with respect to your comment either.

TAM:)
 
oh, and incidentally, the argument can be made both ways.

Yes, perhaps a woman as president would make her think twice about the need for war to solve a problem.

On the otherhand, being a woman (by your standard of less violent) MIGHT make her hesitate too much, when such an action is needed.

There IS A TIME FOR WAR.

TAM:)
 
Come now, apart from the Falklands, and a de facto civil war with the NUM, what wars did Thatcher ever start? ;)

Could it be that "women don't start wars", because a statically insignificant number of women have ever been in a position powerful enough to start wars?

General Galtieri, President of Argentina, started the war in the Malvinas Islands when he ordered the invasion of the Falklands. Maggie just finished what he started.
 
Reagan was wrong. Communism fell on its own accord and our failure to support human rights was and continues to be inexcusable.

Conde Rice is made of the same cloth, only worse.

You have zero grasp of history if you deny that Reagan pushed the Soviets beyond their limit in trying to keep up with the U.S. in military spending. Even the Soviets own Venona Cables back up this well-known fact.

But as to being a true feminist in the mold of Betty Friedan, you are a fraud. Your test of a women's liberation is based on your politics. If she isn't made of the tattered liberal cloth, she does not deserve the support of women.
 
General Galtieri, President of Argentina, started the war in the Malvinas Islands when he ordered the invasion of the Falklands. Maggie just finished what he started.

only if you ignore the diplomatic background.
 
only if you ignore the diplomatic background.

Really? Haig's diplomacy as mediator between Argentina and GB failed miserably. The inhabitants of the Falklands considered themselves British citizens. Thatcher asked the Argentinians to leave on their own accord. They refused. She sent the British fleet 8000 miles to decide the issue. It was decided that Galtieri made a costly mistake.
 
I see no response to the rest of my citations on Matthews, Pard. What's the matter? So convinced I had no case you now have nothing to say?

Do they have anything to do with mysoginy towards Clinton?

No. This thread isn't about whether or not that individual is a sexist, but about the claim that people who don't support Clinton are mysoginistic.

Please show me another example altogether. If mysoginy towards her is so rampant, you should be able to find one besides that idiot.
 
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Why is the fact which I said repeatedly that there were individual women who could be responsible for wars just totally ignored in my posts. I really don't want to resort to shouting but I do wish people would read what I wrote instead of responding to what they imagine I wrote.


And by discussing Hillary Clinton specifically, we are talking about an individual, not women as a class. To say that someone should vote for her as her gender is likely to influence any war/peace decisions, would be making the same error you are complaining about.

Then again, I am (like Elizabeth I) someone who could be considered part of Clinton's target demographic, but supported Obama in the local caucus based on what I have seen of Clinton's methods of handling adversity in the past. Does this make me a misogynist?
 
I see no reason why the discussion could not remain in this thread, as the conversation has turned to "poor Hillary not winning because americans are misogynistic".

Personally, I would not argue with you that men are more physically violent then women.

I would though, and my wife and many of her female friends would back me up, say that women can tend to be more vindictive, and more vengeful then men.

Of course that is opinion and anecdotal evidence, and I have not the want or time to do the research on it. Then again, I am not asking you to do so with respect to your comment either.

TAM:)
I started another thread specifically to discuss the violence/gender issues. If there is something that relates to bias against women and gender/violence issues I see no reason it shouldn't be in this thread as well.


BTW, lots of evidence has been presented in the other thread re gender violence differences, not just someone's anecdotes.
 
oh, and incidentally, the argument can be made both ways.

Yes, perhaps a woman as president would make her think twice about the need for war to solve a problem.

On the otherhand, being a woman (by your standard of less violent) MIGHT make her hesitate too much, when such an action is needed.

There IS A TIME FOR WAR.

TAM:)
Like I said, re the gender violence issues you can go to the other thread and address the evidence. Re your logic here, it doesn't follow. I said women as a group (not talking about individuals) were less likely to seek to resolve conflict with violence. That is a separate question than how vigorously one defends against violence perpetrated against you. The evidence in biology is that females can be incredibly fierce defending their young.
 
Originally Posted by skeptigirl
I see no response to the rest of my citations on Matthews, Pard. What's the matter? So convinced I had no case you now have nothing to say?


Do they have anything to do with mysoginy towards Clinton?

No. This thread isn't about whether or not that individual is a sexist, but about the claim that people who don't support Clinton are mysoginistic.

Please show me another example altogether. If mysoginy towards her is so rampant, you should be able to find one besides that idiot.
Bull!

You said
Originally Posted by skeptigirl
Are you trying to claim that conversation was not revealing about Mathew's true feelings about women in power? How much evidence would you consider convincing?


I wouldn't call it an innocent comment, but it's hardly evidence of anything. Please show me something more convincing than a small comment off the air..

So now you can't address Mathew's blatant sexism after calling my bluff so you want to pretend the discussion was about something else.

I'll take that as you with your foot in your mouth trying to claim there was no evidence of Mathew's overt sexist attitude.
 
And by discussing Hillary Clinton specifically, we are talking about an individual, not women as a class. To say that someone should vote for her as her gender is likely to influence any war/peace decisions, would be making the same error you are complaining about.

Then again, I am (like Elizabeth I) someone who could be considered part of Clinton's target demographic, but supported Obama in the local caucus based on what I have seen of Clinton's methods of handling adversity in the past. Does this make me a misogynist?
Hok, I didn't mean to sound harsh but you brought up the example of Thatcher, an individual when I said my comments on Clinton being less inclined to war was based solely on the fact she is a woman, not on something specific but you need the context of that to understand what I mean.

The problem is there are too many side conversations here with a couple of people bringing up stuff from other threads in addition to their annoyance I prefer Clinton to Obama. So let me back track just for clarity even though this is about the 4th time I have stated my position.

Obama and Clinton are very close in terms of who I'd vote for. So my preference is based on small differences. When I mentioned a small difference and said it is a small difference, the Obama supporters responded as if I had made claims the difference was much greater than I had.

If you think I said the fact Clinton is a woman is a huge reason to vote for her you would be making a straw man up claiming I'm only voting for her because she is a woman. And that is where a lot of the false statements about my position have originated from.

Given that the two candidates are so close, the fact Clinton is a woman tips the balance for me. And I say that because I believe women on the whole view the world differently from men. We have different priorities for example. Women are going to care more about things that affect women. And women are less likely to resolve issues with violence.

You can argue Clinton is a warmonger if you think the evidence supports that. You can argue that she is not typical of women in general if you think there is evidence of that. I don't see any evidence suggesting Clinton is of the mindset of Thatcher. I see no evidence suggesting Clinton is more inclined to violence to settle disputes than women in general.

Given that the two candidates are so close, the fact Clinton is a woman tips the balance for me. That is a completely different statement than what is being implied I am saying.
 
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Given that the two candidates are so close, the fact Clinton is a woman tips the balance for me. That is a completely different statement than what is being implied I am saying.

And if all of us men were to say the same, but that because Obama is a man tips the balance for us, would that be ok with you?

and would it be ok if African Americans said because Obama is black, that that tips the balance for them?

TAM:)
 

Sexist. :p

(Why always "bull crap"? Why not "cow poop"?)

You said

So now you can't address Mathew's blatant sexism after calling my bluff so you want to pretend the discussion was about something else.
This is one individual, Elton John's claim is that people who don't support Clinton are de facto mysogyns. That's the topic of the thread, you're trying to change it.

You seem to agree with that assessment, as you seem to say that mysoginy against her is rampant: show me!

I'll take that as you with your foot in your mouth trying to claim there was no evidence of Mathew's overt sexist attitude.
I don't give a * about that individual.
 
Maybe I'm missing something. I mean, there does appear to be some sort of minor cut or flicker in that clip after the "nothing worse than a woman know it all" comment...but even with the volume turned up I can't seem to hear Matthews laughing there.

Or are we supposed to assume that Matthews (who I actually have to agree probably is guilty of some degree of misogyny based on other experience) is guilty here merely as a result of being present when Delay made that odious comment?

Check out mediamatters and their posts delineating Matthews long history of misogyny and especially his hatred of Hillary.
 

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