Bigfoot - The Patterson-Gimlin Film

[kitakaze]

Now for the genius who questioned the frequency with which fossils of ancient primates and homids are found these days go here another one just came in.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080326/ap_on_sc/spain_ancient_jawbone

I'm smart enough to remember when you said:

We have a fossil record that shows many, many types of pre/semihuman creatures. New specimens are discovered fairly often these days. So there's more of a case for a Sasquatch like creature to have existed than there is for it never to have existed.

I'm smart enough to know that a story about a new possible Homo antecessor jaw bone or even possibly ancestor to that species does nothing to validate the frequency claim. I should also make it clear that since we were talking about the possibility of finding the fossil remains of a sasquatch-like species that when you said specimens you were talking about finding new species of hominids and other primates.

FYI - Recent Developments in Paleoanthropology:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/recent.html

Most importantly, I'm smart enough to know that making new fossil finds in areas where we know early hominids existed does nothing to increase the likelihood of finding sasquatch remains in North America.

 

[Crowlogic]

Dfoots BBC creature photo is photographed in overcast. Note there's no sharp shadows. So it can't be compared with fur, real or otherwise photographed in bright light. The BBC creature in sunlight looks like a dayglow pimp. Compare to this photo of a verifiable real animal photographed under bright sunlight. Nice sheen. Also bear in mind that the Morris recreaton suit shows no sheen at all either. Sheen isn't going to make or break the real or fake fur issue.

 

[captain koolaid]

Drew

When Roger went out that morning alone he was armed and had little reason to fear a potential encounter. After the PGF event he was on foot without rifle. Reason enough to want Gimlinwith rifle to stay close by. Not to say that this make it any mor real but under the circumstances as presented not bad reasoning.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080326/ap_on_sc/spain_ancient_jawbone

This story has always sounded dubious IMHO. This "hotspot" at Bluff creek is supposed to be covered, regularly, with tracks from a number of different Bigfoots, not just one. That's why he went there. Roger Patterson is convinced that Bigfoot is a wild, ferocious beast. A dangerous Boss o' the woods. He isn't some Bank Teller, looking for Bigfoot, he is supposed to an experienced woodsman. Apparently ex-Army also? (not sure on this one). To be sure, RP and BG are riders, and have their rifles hung for easy access on their mounts. But how often are they going to be expecting to run down Bigfoot on horseback?

They are packing a cinema camera, and still cameras. The objective is film making. This requires 2 hands. Certainly RP has BG to "cover his back". But here is the moment of truth, and they "cannot be seperated", for fear of the monstrous ones. Why didn't RP bother to put a simple rifle sling on his 303? Would have thought that this sort of basic planning would be par for the course, on potentially lethal expeditions, where one is expecting to wield equipment like cameras etc, on foot. It may not be a spectacularly huge point, in regards the narrative as presented by RP and BG. But, it comes across as another head scratcher. If RP really believed in the ferocious nature, of the Bigfoots, he would surely encounter.

 

[Crowlogic]

I'm smart enough to remember when you said:



I'm smart enough to know that a story about a new possible Homo antecessor jaw bone or even possibly ancestor to that species does nothing to validate the frequency claim. I should also make it clear that since we were talking about the possibility of finding the fossil remains of a sasquatch-like species that when you said specimens you were talking about finding new species of hominids and other primates.

FYI - Recent Developments in Paleoanthropology:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/recent.html

Most importantly, I'm smart enough to know that making new fossil finds in areas where we know early hominids existed does nothing to increase the likelihood of finding sasquatch remains in North America.

Yes we all know how smart you are.

 

[kitakaze]

Dfoots BBC creature photo is photographed in overcast. Note there's no sharp shadows. So it can't be compared with fur, real or otherwise photographed in bright light. The BBC creature in sunlight looks like a dayglow pimp. Compare to this photo of a verifiable real animal photographed under bright sunlight. Nice sheen. Also bear in mind that the Morris recreaton suit shows no sheen at all either. Sheen isn't going to make or break the real or fake fur issue.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_1875547eafb105982b.jpg[/qimg]

My Harley Hoffman video has more sheen in it than the movie 'Wall Street'.

 

[Crowlogic]

This story has always sounded dubious IMHO. This "hotspot" at Bluff creek is supposed to be covered, regularly, with tracks from a number of different Bigfoots, not just one. That's why he went there. Roger Patterson is convinced that Bigfoot is a wild, ferocious beast. A dangerous Boss o' the woods. He isn't some Bank Teller, looking for Bigfoot, he is supposed to an experienced woodsman. Apparently ex-Army also? (not sure on this one). To be sure, RP and BG are riders, and have their rifles hung for easy access on their mounts. But how often are they going to be expecting to run down Bigfoot on horseback?

They are packing a cinema camera, and still cameras. The objective is film making. This requires 2 hands. Certainly RP has BG to "cover his back". But here is the moment of truth, and they "cannot be seperated", for fear of the monstrous ones. Why didn't RP bother to put a simple rifle sling on his 303? Would have thought that this sort of basic planning would be par for the course, on potentially lethal expeditions, where one is expecting to wield equipment like cameras etc, on foot. It may not be a spectacularly huge point, in regards the narrative as presented by RP and BG. But, it comes across as another head scratcher. If RP really believed in the ferocious nature, of the Bigfoots, he would surely encounter.

Bob had the rifle Roger had the camera. Camera won't stop Da Boss but Bob can with Mr rifle. Bob oh Bob don't go wandering off too far I'm all alone here and my 303 is nowhere to be found. Roger couldn't have done everything with regards to protecting himself, grabbing his camera then his rifle and charging after Patty. So the rifle was spared in favor of the camera and Gimlin rode shotgun. Great story great teamwork rather heroic. If its all just a story Ok it works. If its real Ok fabulous even better. Relax its a hoax enjoy the tale and enjoy the final proof when it arrives.

 

[kitakaze]

Yes we all know how smart you are.

Very good. Very snappy. Right out of Thunderdome, straight down to Chinatown.

Do you think you could respond to post #13319? It's that 'gone' thing that I'm wondering about.

 

[Crowlogic]

..

 

[Crowlogic]

Thunderdome? Did Parcher hack you account? Come on William you have a perfectly good account you don't need to be hacking into Da Boss of Da, of Da ,of Da, well I'm sure your Da Boss of something.....

 

[captain koolaid]

Bob had the rifle Roger had the camera. Camera won't stop Da Boss but Bob can with Mr rifle. Bob oh Bob don't go wandering off too far I'm all alone here and my 303 is nowhere to be found. Roger couldn't have done everything with regards to protecting himself, grabbing his camera then his rifle and charging after Patty. So the rifle was spared in favor of the camera and Gimlin rode shotgun. Great story great teamwork rather heroic. If its all just a story Ok it works. If its real Ok fabulous even better. Relax its a hoax enjoy the tale and enjoy the final proof when it arrives.

Not certain that you understand what was meant. If you use a sling, you have 2 free hands. You don't need to chase after a horse to get your rifle, you don't even need to bother grabbing it while getting the camera out. In fact, at least one version of the event has Patty waiting rather patiently, while RP dismounts/slides off/is thrown. If he can get the camera out, he can get the rifle out, and sling it, in time to still get the footage (if he didn't or couldn't ride with it slung for some reason). Patty wasn't exactly sprinting away into the undergrowth at this stage.

If Bigfoot really was as dangerous as RP made it out to be, a slung rifle would be on the cards for a "close encounter". With or without BG to back him up. It may not be a "crucial" point. But another hole in the logic of the overall story. It is a simple piece of equipment, that can make all the difference, in a "life or death" situation. Just find it odd that RP, the legendary "Bigfoot hunter" didn't think it important to use one. BG maybe, he supposedly wasn't a believer. But RP? The point is, if RP really felt so threatened, by unobserved Bigfoots, that might charge at him from the forest, with no provocation, enough to prevent BG from continuing after Patty, the "find of the century"... why would he have not even had a sling on his 303? Doesn't add up, for my money, anyway.

 

[Crowlogic]

Not certain that you understand what was meant. If you use a sling, you have 2 free hands. You don't need to chase after a horse to get your rifle, you don't even need to bother grabbing it while getting the camera out. In fact, at least one version of the event has Patty waiting rather patiently, while RP dismounts/slides off/is thrown. If he can get the camera out, he can get the rifle out, and sling it, in time to still get the footage (if he didn't or couldn't ride with it slung). Patty wasn't exactly sprinting away into the undergrowth at this stage. If Bigfoot really was as dangerous as RP made it out to be, a slung rifle would be on the cards for a "close encounter". With or without BG to back him up. It may not be a "crucial" point. But another hole in the logic of the overall story. It is a simple piece of equipment, that can make all the difference, in a "life or death" situation. Strange that RP the legendary "Bigfoot hunter" didn't think it important to use one.

Good point but even if Roger had a rifle sling and could have instantly had rifle in hand he still had to run the camera. As it is even with two hands he wasn't much of a cinematograper. But if you mean overall him having a sling was more in keeping with the dangerous nature of his quary then the sling makes the most sense. On the other hand Gimlin didn't have a sling yet managed to have his rifle ready in a timely fashion. Hmmm I wonder what Chuck Connors or Steve McQueen woud have done that day.

 

[clayflingythingy]

If Bigfoot really was as dangerous as RP made it out to be, a slung rifle would be on the cards for a "close encounter". With or without BG to back him up. It may not be a "crucial" point. But another hole in the logic of the overall story. It is a simple piece of equipment, that can make all the difference, in a "life or death" situation. Just find it odd that RP, the legendary "Bigfoot hunter" didn't think it important to use one. BG maybe, he supposedly wasn't a believer. But RP?

captain,

I am gonna assume from this statement you aren't a sportsmen. A slung rifle or shotgun is a royal pain in the nether regions if you are attempting to "do" anything like operate a movie camera, a still camara, cast tracks, etc. ASSUMING RP filmed a real BF and ASSUMING RP was afraid said bigfoots were potentially dangerous asking BG to hang around with his 30.06 while he cast tracks and made film would be a reasonable request. If you watch outdoor shows it is not uncommon to see people fishing for Salmon in bear country without any firearm for protection, mainly because lugging a gun and attempting to fish is difficult.

Of course, the real reason ole BG hung around was there wasn't any BF to follow.

 

[kitakaze]

Thunderdome? Did Parcher hack you account? Come on William you have a perfectly good account you don't need to be hacking into Da Boss of Da, of Da ,of Da, well I'm sure your Da Boss of something.....

Welcome to Thunderdome, where when somebody says something like this:

Well how could an extinct species be found in the rubble? It was already gone by St Helen's

They can expect a response like this:

I'm interested in the 'gone' part of this statement of fact. As in 'once was there'.

I'm of the opinion 'never were there'. I base this opinion on a complete lack of reliable evidence. Also that the alledged evidence submitted is of the same quality as that for extra-terrestrial visitation of Earth and ghosts, etc.

On what do you base the 'once was there' that the use of 'gone' connotates?

And when pressed for an answer then receiving a response that contains none, one can expect to be called on it.

You claimed to be a skeptic. You claimed not to be a believer. Surely it should not be a difficult thing to explain the basis of your opinion you deem logical regarding bigfoot having gone extinct. You're not evading that, are you?

 

[Crowlogic]

Hmmm you brought up DA DOME Bro, not me!

 

[captain koolaid]

I am gonna assume from this statement you aren't a sportsmen. A slung rifle or shotgun is a royal pain in the nether regions if you are attempting to "do" anything like operate a movie camera, a still camara, cast tracks, etc. ASSUMING RP filmed a real BF and ASSUMING RP was afraid said bigfoots were potentially dangerous asking BG to hang around with his 30.06 while he cast tracks and made film would be a reasonable request. If you watch outdoor shows it is not uncommon to see people fishing for Salmon in bear country without any firearm for protection, mainly because lugging a gun and attempting to fish is difficult.

I agree with you, up to a point. It isn't the ideal situation, when the emphasis is on the task of photography, or bush tracking etc. It isn't particularly comfortable, and can get in the way, when moving through bush, bending over etc. But my impression of RP's take is that Bigfoot is much more dangerous than your average prey, or even big game. I have used cameras with slung rifle, across the back. It isn't so bad, and is much more practical than being unarmed. It depends upon the situation. In most cases, it wouldn't be very important. But going by RP's description of Bigfoot- if unprovoked attacks, from previously unseen superapes, was such a real threat. I would have thought a sling would be attached, regardless of whether or not it got used as such, on that occasion. Just an opinion, and a personal preference, to be sure. But it strikes me as odd.

Of course, the real reason ole BG hung around was there wasn't any BF to follow.

Agreed.

 

[kitakaze]

Hmmm you brought up DA DOME Bro, not me!

Again:

I'm interested in the 'gone' part of this statement of fact. As in 'once was there'.

I'm of the opinion 'never were there'. I base this opinion on a complete lack of reliable evidence. Also that the alledged evidence submitted is of the same quality as that for extra-terrestrial visitation of Earth and ghosts, etc.

On what do you base the 'once was there' that the use of 'gone' connotates?

Again:

You claimed to be a skeptic. You claimed not to be a believer. Surely it should not be a difficult thing to explain the basis of your opinion you deem logical regarding bigfoot having gone extinct.

 

[Crowlogic]

But going by RP's description of Bigfoot- if unprovoked attacks, from previously unseen superapes, was such a real threat. I would have thought a sling would be attached, regardless of whether or not it got used as such, on that occasion. Just an opinion, and a personal preference, to be sure. But it strikes me as odd.




Agreed.

How did that line from Star Wars go? "Ancient weapons and hokey relegions are no match for a good blaster kid." But even in the middle of the 20th century had it come down to Superape vs Roger Patterson's British 303 the score card would have read at the end of the day. British 303 1, Superape 0.

 

[LTC8K6]

Roger should have had a large caliber double rifle and a backup 44 magnum revolver along with his cameras if he believed bigfoot was real and if he believed what he wrote and drew regarding bigfoot.

I think the fact that Roger was in the area alone that morning, and came back and suggested that they return there, already points strongly to a hoax.

On Thursday evening, October 19, 1967, the men set up their camp close to Bluff Creek itself. Gimlin arose early the next morning and rode out of the camp site while Patterson slept-in. Gimlin arrived back at the camp at about 10:00 a.m. Patterson was not at the camp at this time. He returned after a little while and asked Gimlin what area he had covered on his early ride. Gimlin told him where he had been after which Patterson suggested they re-explore an area they had previously explored. Gimlin agreed and the men left at about twelve noon.

Gimling left Patterson there alone and asleep with dangerous sasquatches running all over Bluff creek?

Patterson presumably wakes up alone and does what? Leaves camp. Did he ride up the logging road alone?

Where was Gimlin riding? In the rugged terrain off the road?

Don't forget that Gimlin said in the 1992 interview that they could not ride the roads in the truck in the daytime because the roads were under construction and also the logging trucks were coming down the roads often. They had to ride the roads in the truck at night and look for tracks crossing the road.

For some reason on that Friday of Patty's screen debut, they had no problem riding their horses on the logging roads. No construction crews or logging trucks bothered them, apparently.

Also, the idea of looking for bigfoot tracks on the hard packed road at night while riding in a truck is absolutely ridiculous, imo.

 

[LTC8K6]

How did that line from Star Wars go? "Ancient weapons and hokey relegions are no match for a good blaster kid." But even in the middle of the 20th century had it come down to Superape vs Roger Patterson's British 303 the score card would have read at the end of the day. British 303 1, Superape 0.

A 30 caliber bolt action rifle is a poor choice against a large, dangerous, and quick animal that is intelligent and can pick up and throw 55 gallon drums of fuel or the odd folks wagon...

 

[Crowlogic]

A 30 caliber bolt action rifle is a poor choice against a large, dangerous, and quick animal that is intelligent and can pick up and throw 55 gallon drums of fuel or the odd folks wagon...

Where does the throwing the Volks come from? I know the oil drum was from a Wallace site and that Roger drew a Bigfoot harassing a Volks that some say was an encounter he himself claimed to have had.