William Parcher -- Like I once did, you seem to be getting much of your info from the Bigfooter's version of what Bob H. did or didn't say. It's hard to separate what someone has really said from what others WANT them to have said.
Here's the rundown on some of it:
BOB HEIRONIMUS never said that the suit was made of a dead horse (gray or red). He SAID that
Roger had claimed once
to his brother Howard Heironimus (seen in the cowboy movie with Patterson and Indian Gimlin) that he had done it all himself with horsehide. That was Roger Patterson who said that.
Bob H. only knows the stories he's heard from various sources about how the suit was made. He doesn't know himself and has said as much. He only wore it. But what he DOES SAY about what it felt like to him, that is absolutely correct.
Yes, he describes A MOUTHPIECE and a mask that seemed to fit inside the mask of the soft leather helmet-like head. This is correct and not many would know that to make it up. Here's why:
This is what the inside of those heads from the 60's made by this group I'm talking about looked like. Your chin fits into ANOTHER MASK . See the layers.
Although this photo shows the tongue button Janos used to move the upper lip of his Chimp and I doubt Patty had that, I'm showing this so you can see the tiny metal hinge in the jaw. This moves the jaw as the person moves his.
The only thing that moved on Patty's face was the slight jaw movement.
This would happen sometimes whether the person wearing the head even tried to open his own jaw or not. It sometimes happens just when bouncing or walking along. I know as I've worn these heads.
So what Heironimus tries to describe, the leather-like helmet head, the mouthpiece, the half inch or so away from the eyeholes, the layered look of an inner mask - all of that fits what was really used then. How did he know this? Phillip Morris didn't. You didn't get that in a Halloween mask. It had to be built that way. And the guys who did use that method are the ones I'm talking about. They worked with Chambers, Wah and Janos.
On DOCUMENTATION: Yes. There is some. Gimlin's court records shows he was lying when he told Long that he'd never been arrested and didn't know what Long was talking about. The documents show that his family put up their home to bail him out. Gimlin's sister confirmed this in an interview as well.
Long goes further in checking out the "air mail" tale. Gimlin claimed they mailed it from Eureka at 9:30 pm
from the post office. Patterson told AL HODGESON that they'd just gotten back from Eureka after mailing it at 6:30 pm
from the post office. DeAtley suggested upon hearing that the
post office would have been closed that a pilot he used might have brought it over.
Unfortunately for these men Long wasn't the standard Bigfoot book writer. He actually checked the documentation and interviewed the right people. Records show there was
no flight from the area to fly the film in the first place. And in the second place the pilot DeAtley mentioned wasn't even in the country. The post office would not still be open when they emerged from the woods that day to drive to Eureka. That's documentation.
JACK OLIPHANT is interviewed. He was the publicist that PAT MASON set Roger up with to promote the film. Oliphant describes the New York event and says Patterson and Gimlin were con men. DeAtley was there and paid for the filghts. DeAtley talks about all sorts of things he had to pay for. Did he save plane tickets for people to view decades later? Of course not. Who would?
Mason was shocked to learn that DeAtley had gone behind his back and edited another version of the PG film from the BBC documentary. Mason always thought he was the only person out selling Roger's film and trying to get a deal with the studios. He had no idea that Roger, DeAtley and Gimlin had gone down to Hollywood and signed new contracts between themselves and cut him out completely.
And although VILMA RADFORD
kept her contract with Patterson that held up in court when Gimlin and Dahinden sued DeAtley and Patricia Patterson over the profits, GREEN and others never mention this contract when they describe how Patterson couldn't have had a suit made as he had no money.
That document shows that Patterson had ripped the lady off and did indeed have the money for a creature suit and more.
Usually you'd want NO documentation at all when pulling a scam like this. The amazing thing is that there are still so many documents and people to be interviewed who can supply information on this thing.
Cowboy and Indian clothes, plane tickets, huge sums of money, contracts and documents, all are discussed in Long's book. All of it is twisted around or omitted by the Bigfooters who want to keep Patty real no matter what. Don't get it from them. Read the book.
Bill Munns -- I've not read the info you put out at BFF. I only stopped by to leave photos and info for you to see hopefully before what has happened would surely happen. Unfortunately, you went down the list and dismissed each one as "irrelevant" and the like.
I did listen to the interview because I had also been asked to appear on that same show and declined. I told them I wanted to have a little YOUTUBE doc online or something to point people to before I did that as merely talking to Bigfooters won't work. I know this. The only way to impart information is to both talk and SHOW something visual.
I know and understand that you're just expressing your opinion. Yet at the 47 minute mark you begin talking about CHRIS WALAS coming to the forum to explain how the suit fit in two sections and you said
that you'd never seen a fur suit made that way. This is pretty bad because THAT IS how nearly all professional gorilla suits are done. Then and now.
http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkCast.jsp?masterId=30301&cmd=tc
That misunderstanding will now become a new "Patty-toid" and you'll find yourself being used to
prove that Hollywood couldn't have made such a suit.
I know you are only expressing your opinions based on what Bill Munns would or wouldn't do, but that is not the question. The question is whether this is a suit or not. In order to answer that we must look at who would have made such suits and
what techniques they used. Not you. This was all done before you got into the business.
So I'm only saying that you should try to correct that perception when you next appear. Here's some info meant to help:
Crash Corrigan stopped wearing ape suits in 1949. They were all two sectioned - as usual - and came in every shade. He was renting and selling them off in the 60's. In 1966 when he sold Corriganville a white "Bigfoot" showed up in Yakima at the same time Patterson was promoting his book and Merritt started building a duplicate of Corriganville. This might be important later.
Here's a recent gorilla suit I often show to demonstrate how silly it is to draw bones on a suit. It's in two sections too.
The "old man Bob Burns talked to" about the water bag is Charlie, the legend - of course. Though this 1930's suit of his used pads that were separate from the skin of the shoulders, the buttocks were padded like Patty's.
Exactly like Patty's. This was an old technique and is what Walas was pointing out to us. This is the same suit below. It was given to DON POST and became the base for some of their gorilla masks (and possibly copied by Phillip Morris). Again... two sections. There is an upside down "V" that you should be able to see on both suits. Not to mention the lines of the pads themselves showing through.
Even this 1920's suit is as good as Patty. If it had shiny faux fur glued on instead of this more realistic hair and Patty had this hair instead of the shiny faux fur patches, we'd still hear the same story from Bigfooters. Patty is
much more realistic. That's the power of the mind at work. It's what keeps this hoax alive.
A leg of foam padding with a rubber knee next to Patty. All we need is some rubber "skin" and patches of shiny brown fur and we can leave an
open patch without glue to create a "hernia" injury. The truth is that such injuries on athletes usually dip IN. They don't bubble out like... a bit of rubber skin popping loose on a suit leg.
It's like JFK said in one of his great speeches, "A mistake doesn't become an error until we choose not to correct them." From GREEN and his denial that the Wallace road crew fooled him, to KRANTZ' declaring the Bossburg tracks were real, to MELDRUM's current misalignment of facts, it goes on and on. The Patterson hoax persists because there is always some "authority figure" to back up the belief - despite common sense and evidence to the contrary.
Do your best to straighten this out during your next appearance on the show. Remember that Melissa has only been looking at this whole Bigfoot scene for a few years now. When she attempts to talk to John Green about the Marx' Bossburg prints as if they were real she probably doesn't realize that Green tried to pay big bucks to the hoaxster for the film of himself limping along once and watched as the whole thing fell apart. He ws not a happy camper over that episode.
As decades go by and Bigfooters continue to have nothing but hoaxers making tracks from time to time they tend to begin to attack each other. You've stepped right into the middle of it. Fortunately you have a chance to clear up some things before they become Bigfootized for all eternity.
