Undesired Walrus
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2007
- Messages
- 11,691
You may remember a rare event when the Prophet Mohammed was depicted with a bomb on his bonnet.
Over here in London, some Islamists got their pants in a twist, and marched upon the street in their fantastic London accents declaring Britain (As remember, these guys do not see themselves as British 'innit?) to be awash with attacks on their religion.
Despite my desire for religion to see itself for the falsehood I believe it to be, my most pressing desire is for it to be treated with the same respect I give a political opinion. I disagree strongly with those who advocate the death penalty, and if I call them a moron for their belief in this situation, it is honestly not very nice and quite rude. But hardly anybody flinches at the phrase 'Your position is moronic' as they would if I were to say 'your religion is moronic'.
I take issue with a verse in the Hadith saying, 'Paradise lies underneath the shadow of a sword'. I see that as bad philosophy, as I see libertarianism as bad philosophy. I also want to be able to say to a Muslim, 'that phrase is evil'. But the moment I would say such a thing, several sensitive morons would tell me I was being offensive.
Some points I have had when debating this:
1: My friend once said that this is different from a political conviction because Religous folk, Muslims mostly, spend their entire lives deeply ingrained into the texts of their religion. What time they get up, what they eat, who they worship to. Ok, but then what about the army? They get up every morning at a specific time, often have deep family ties to the army, and declare they are fighting for their country. Hell, some of their friends have died in the cause of fighting for their country.
But what happens when this comes around?
This cartoon, at a time of war, is not supportive of the troops. It generalises them as treated civilians in a harsh, and horrific manner.
But what would happen if the US military demanded that cartoon not be shown? There would quite rightly be an uproar. I would hope there would be one on here.
Homosexuality? The person you want to spend your life with and fall in love with? How more deep do you need to get (pun intended)?
2: That Muslims are under seige these days and it is like shouting fire in a crowded hall.
Right, do they think the US army is not under seige every day in Iraq and Afghanistan? Whether they are there for good reasons or not (And I do not think for good reasons in the former), there is no escaping that there are blokes calling for their murder and amputing their heads infront of a television camera.
Or Homosexuality? Which is illegal in many different nations in the world, and in which you can be killed by the state simply for what you fall in love with.
Yet if homosexuals go to the streets and declare anyone who says homosexuality is immoral should be locked up? You would likely get a few accepting this, but I would expect most to declare it a horrific overreaction denying free speech. I would, and I can't say I'd sympathise with such demands if they ever happened. Which they haven't. Because as far as I know, elements of sexuality tend not to preach hatred of those with a different sexual desire. If it did, I'd take objection to that aspect of it.
So some new protests I think should happen on the streets of London soon.
We would laugh, and tell them to lighten up. Sadly, you cannot tell religous folk to lighten up.
If I ran a newspaper, and had a picture of a poo on an army training manual, because of any pacifist beliefs I had, what could I expect? I'd likely get some letters from some members of the army, saying that was a crass and stupid way to express a point, and they may have a point. But if they demanded that this not be republished, would you stand up for them?
But If I did that on a Qur'an instead, what would happen?
And why should it happen?
Please, let me know your opinions.
Over here in London, some Islamists got their pants in a twist, and marched upon the street in their fantastic London accents declaring Britain (As remember, these guys do not see themselves as British 'innit?) to be awash with attacks on their religion.
Despite my desire for religion to see itself for the falsehood I believe it to be, my most pressing desire is for it to be treated with the same respect I give a political opinion. I disagree strongly with those who advocate the death penalty, and if I call them a moron for their belief in this situation, it is honestly not very nice and quite rude. But hardly anybody flinches at the phrase 'Your position is moronic' as they would if I were to say 'your religion is moronic'.
I take issue with a verse in the Hadith saying, 'Paradise lies underneath the shadow of a sword'. I see that as bad philosophy, as I see libertarianism as bad philosophy. I also want to be able to say to a Muslim, 'that phrase is evil'. But the moment I would say such a thing, several sensitive morons would tell me I was being offensive.
Some points I have had when debating this:
1: My friend once said that this is different from a political conviction because Religous folk, Muslims mostly, spend their entire lives deeply ingrained into the texts of their religion. What time they get up, what they eat, who they worship to. Ok, but then what about the army? They get up every morning at a specific time, often have deep family ties to the army, and declare they are fighting for their country. Hell, some of their friends have died in the cause of fighting for their country.
But what happens when this comes around?
This cartoon, at a time of war, is not supportive of the troops. It generalises them as treated civilians in a harsh, and horrific manner.
But what would happen if the US military demanded that cartoon not be shown? There would quite rightly be an uproar. I would hope there would be one on here.
Homosexuality? The person you want to spend your life with and fall in love with? How more deep do you need to get (pun intended)?
2: That Muslims are under seige these days and it is like shouting fire in a crowded hall.
Right, do they think the US army is not under seige every day in Iraq and Afghanistan? Whether they are there for good reasons or not (And I do not think for good reasons in the former), there is no escaping that there are blokes calling for their murder and amputing their heads infront of a television camera.
Or Homosexuality? Which is illegal in many different nations in the world, and in which you can be killed by the state simply for what you fall in love with.
Yet if homosexuals go to the streets and declare anyone who says homosexuality is immoral should be locked up? You would likely get a few accepting this, but I would expect most to declare it a horrific overreaction denying free speech. I would, and I can't say I'd sympathise with such demands if they ever happened. Which they haven't. Because as far as I know, elements of sexuality tend not to preach hatred of those with a different sexual desire. If it did, I'd take objection to that aspect of it.
So some new protests I think should happen on the streets of London soon.
We would laugh, and tell them to lighten up. Sadly, you cannot tell religous folk to lighten up.
If I ran a newspaper, and had a picture of a poo on an army training manual, because of any pacifist beliefs I had, what could I expect? I'd likely get some letters from some members of the army, saying that was a crass and stupid way to express a point, and they may have a point. But if they demanded that this not be republished, would you stand up for them?
But If I did that on a Qur'an instead, what would happen?
And why should it happen?
Please, let me know your opinions.
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