Israel will allow fuel, medicine into Gaza - official

[yairhol]

Yea, for you maybe. But hey, I'm a racist, right? So what do I know.

Hey, I'm a racist too. E.J. said so.
who's left that is not a racist in EJ's book?

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

Yea, for you maybe. But hey, I'm a racist, right? So what do I know.

Hmmmn. Not addressing the argument. Not very sceptical is it?

Two groups act in a terrorist fashion but for some unknown reason, obviously unconnected with racism, one group only are terrorists according to you.

What was it that Randi said about people who will not support their claims?

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

E.J. joins the discussion:

Correct.

Ah. Claiming I said something I didn't.


Thanks for making my point about you so eloquently.

Apart from lying about me, your point is what exactly?

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

Hey, I'm a racist too. E.J. said so.
who's left that is not a racist in EJ's book?

People who aren't racist.

See how easy it is?

 

[webfusion]

E.J Asks:

Apart from lying about me, your point is what exactly?

My point is that you are clearly mistaken, and the gaza strip is not a "concentration camp" in any way, shape, or form.

If the leaders of the palestinians choose to continue shooting rockets at Israel, good luck to them. We have no need to permit any luxuries and extra comforts originating from our nation to pass freely into that hostile territory.

However, we are willing to make available basic necessities (including fuel and electricity, even if they're NOT paying for it).
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1203283469208&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull
Israel approves shipment of cement, for critical sewage-treatment project.

 

[webfusion]

Regarding the negotiations between Israel and the P.A. ---
Here is the synopsis of the core issues being discussed in ongoing meetings :

# State-to-state issues, such as an exchange of ambassadors and Palestinian membership in international organizations.

# Water. Most of the work on this issue was completed at the Camp David talks in 2000, but a few minor details remain to be settled.

# Internal security - primarily, future cooperation between the Israeli and Palestinian police forces on issues such as crime fighting and road safety.

# Civil security issues, such as entry permits into Israel, border crossings and Israeli-Palestinian security cooperation.

# Economic issues. The goal is to define the nature of the economic relationship between the two states, on issues such as customs duties, tax collection, free trade zones, etc.

# Environment. The focus will be on issues such as waste management, sewage and treatment of hazardous materials.


The Prime Minister of Israel and the Palestinian President just met again yesterday, and continue to fine-tune their relationship and move towards mutual goals.
PM Olmert's office also said that both leaders expressed satisfaction with the pace of the talks and the progress to date.

 

[yairhol]

and that was our political reporter in the field webfusion.
And now...Should we let crazy people walk amongst us or should they be locked up?
EJ Armstrong has the story on that.

 

[mrbaracuda]

Hey, I'm a racist too. E.J. said so.
who's left that is not a racist in EJ's book?

In any case: Welcome to the club!

Regarding the negotiations between Israel and the P.A. ---
Here is the synopsis of the core issues being discussed in ongoing meetings :

# State-to-state issues, such as an exchange of ambassadors and Palestinian membership in international organizations.

# Water. Most of the work on this issue was completed at the Camp David talks in 2000, but a few minor details remain to be settled.

# Internal security - primarily, future cooperation between the Israeli and Palestinian police forces on issues such as crime fighting and road safety.

# Civil security issues, such as entry permits into Israel, border crossings and Israeli-Palestinian security cooperation.

# Economic issues. The goal is to define the nature of the economic relationship between the two states, on issues such as customs duties, tax collection, free trade zones, etc.

# Environment. The focus will be on issues such as waste management, sewage and treatment of hazardous materials.


The Prime Minister of Israel and the Palestinian President just met again yesterday, and continue to fine-tune their relationship and move towards mutual goals.
PM Olmert's office also said that both leaders expressed satisfaction with the pace of the talks and the progress to date.

Hmm, who knows, maybe the West Bank will become "Palestine" and then Abu Mazen has something for show and can take it from there with Hamas.

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

E.J Asks:

My point is that you are clearly mistaken, and the gaza strip is not a "concentration camp" in any way, shape, or form.

If the leaders of the palestinians choose to continue shooting rockets at Israel, good luck to them. We have no need to permit any luxuries and extra comforts originating from our nation to pass freely into that hostile territory.

However, we are willing to make available basic necessities (including fuel and electricity, even if they're NOT paying for it).
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1203283469208&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull
Israel approves shipment of cement, for critical sewage-treatment project.

Au contraire. The Gaza strip has many of the hallmarks of a concentration camp.

People are imprisoned against their will. http://www.amnesty.org/en/for-media...t-be-re-imprisoned-within-gaza-strip-20080125

The people trapped inside are collectively punished again and again. See above.
People are refused humanitarian aid with a resultant loss of life. See above
Untried people are assassinated in ways that guarentee innocent women and children are killed. See http://www.zimbio.com/Gaza+Strip/articles/171/Gaza+civilians+die+along+assassinated+leader
Essential infrastructure is destroyed at will. See http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/767933.html

The borders are not controlled by the inmates. See http://www.rssmicro.com/search/Gaza-Border-Crossings

Homes are bulldozed at will. See http://www.artschoolpalestine.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=509&Itemid=44&lang=en

QED.

Israelis and Palestinians are entitled to have their human rights respected and to be free from all terror, whatever the source.

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

and that was our political reporter in the field webfusion.
And now...Should we let crazy people walk amongst us or should they be locked up?
EJ Armstrong has the story on that.

And your point is what exactly?

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

E.J. joins the discussion:

Correct.

Despite being informed that the quote you assert was mine was inaccurate, as demonstrated by the thread above, you have left it on the thread. I can only presume that your invention of false quotes is therefore deliberate.

I am happy to warn everyone on the site about your behaviour in deliberately misquoting people lest they make the mistake of assuming your posts contain true and accurate quotes.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Despite being informed that the quote you assert was mine was inaccurate, as demonstrated by the thread above, you have left it on the thread. I can only presume that your invention of false quotes is therefore deliberate.

I am happy to warn everyone on the site about your behaviour in deliberately misquoting people lest they make the mistake of assuming your posts contain true and accurate quotes.

Most skeptics consider the source. In this case, the propensity for hyperbole may poison your warning, Cassandra.

Au contraire. The Gaza strip has many of the hallmarks of a concentration camp.

Hyperbole, exhibit A.

DR

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

Most skeptics consider the source. In this case, the propensity for hyperbole may poison your warning, Cassandra.

I notice that deliberately making quotes up is not apparently a problem for you. Defending the indefensible again?
I suggest all those interested in accurate quotes take note.

Hyperbole, exhibit A.

DR

I have provided a number of links to justify my comparison in detail. I note that, once again, as is so often the case, you haven't.

Interestingly Wikipedia suggests that: -

"Many historians argue that Andersonville prison in Georgia was the world's first concentration camp. During the American Civil War, 12,913 Union prisoners died at Andersonville, in appalling conditions that prefigured the internment-camp atrocities that would become all-too-familiar in the decades to come. The camp's commandant, Captain Henry Wirz, was the only Civil War soldier executed for war crimes."

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_concentration_and_internment_camps

Note what happened to the commandant. It seems someone knew what a war crime was at that time.

 

[Darth Rotor]

I notice that deliberately making quotes up is not apparently a problem for you. Defending the indefensible again?
I suggest all those interested in accurate quotes take note.

Nice lie. I did not make up a quote, I quoted what you posted. Did you go back and edit after I replied. Let's see.
From post #391.

Despite being informed that the quote you assert was mine was inaccurate, as demonstrated by the thread above, you have left it on the thread. I can only presume that your invention of false quotes is therefore deliberate.

I am happy to warn everyone on the site about your behaviour in deliberately misquoting people lest they make the mistake of assuming your posts contain true and accurate quotes.

Are you sure meant to reply to me? Your initial beef was with another poster. webfusion. Not spelled much like Darth Rotor. Whinge away, but at least whinge in the proper direction.

I have provided a number of links to justify my comparison in detail. I note that, once again, as is so often the case, you haven't.

Spins is spin, and you are doing a fine job of making yourself dizzy. Can't tell what you posted, and accuse me of misquoting you when I use your own words.

Interestingly Wikipedia suggests that: -

"Many historians argue that Andersonville prison in Georgia was the world's first concentration camp. During the American Civil War, 12,913 Union prisoners died at Andersonville, in appalling conditions that prefigured the internment-camp atrocities that would become all-too-familiar in the decades to come. The camp's commandant, Captain Henry Wirz, was the only Civil War soldier executed for war crimes."

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_concentration_and_internment_camps

Note what happened to the commandant. It seems someone knew what a war crime was at that time.

What does Andersonville have to do with Gaza? There were no free elections in Andersonville. There were free elections in Gaza. Much to the chagrin of Israel, Hamas won. Irony, that.

DR

 

[webfusion]

The people trapped inside (gaza)...

They're not trapped. They are free to leave. In fact, tens of thousands are applying for the permission from their own government (PA) to do exactly that. Israel routinely rubber-stamps those requests.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1181228581339&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull
"According to PA statistics, there are at least 45,000 emigration applications being reviewed by different countries."

However, in Gaza a "fatwa" has been issued which prohibits people from emigrating.

"We hereby declare that emigration from the blessed lands (gaza) is not permitted according to muslim religious law. The people living in these areas must remain in their homes...

Every time Israel makes some effort to open the crossings for gazans to enter Israel for work, or travel, we see HAMAS & Co. actually rocketing and mortaring the crossing points!

The whole situation of the "humanitarian crisis" is only being made worse by the actions of the leaders of the PA in Gaza themselves. Honestly.
Everyone openly acknowledges it, and HAMAS is running their game pretty thin, trying to gain whatever threads of sympathy remain for their program.

And that ain't much.

 

[The Fool]

They're not trapped. They are free to leave.

Should be interesting to see what this claim changes to....OK web I am Sami Fool a Palestinian resident of Gaza. I am sick of the place and am going to leave....where can I go?

 

[yairhol]

Should be interesting to see what this claim changes to....OK web I am Sami Fool a Palestinian resident of Gaza. I am sick of the place and am going to leave....where can I go?

If you were a Palestinian in Gaza you could go to Egypt and from there fly abroad:

http://www.arikpeace.org/Eng/Index.asp?CategoryID=56&ArticleID=969
"...Should that particular Palestinian wish to fly abroad, he will have to do so via Egypt instead of using Ben-Gurion Airport..."


However, when there is a medical need Israel helps those people:

http://www.nyjtimes.com/Heritage/News/July2803.htm
"[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Israel Helps Palestinian Children Fly Abroad for Medical Treatment[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Israeli Civil Administration officials in the West Bank facilitated the flight of seven Palestinian children, ages 5 to 10, to Italy for lifesaving medical treatment, THE JERUSALEM POST reported..."[/FONT]


I tried looking for more information on TheFool's question above but could not find much.
It would be interesting to call the office of the ministry of interior and get an official answer on that.

A Palestinian living in Judea and Samaria would fly aborad through Jordan:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allenby_Bridge
"...Palestinians travelling abroad must use this bridge [Alenby] to exit the Judea and Samaria region into Jordan and then use the Queen Alia International Airport in Amman to fly abroad...."

 

[webfusion]

I recently mentioned:

Everyone openly acknowledges it, and HAMAS is running their game pretty thin, trying to gain whatever threads of sympathy remain for their program.

And that ain't much.

Well, I should not have underestimated the capacity of the useful idiots in the world to grasp at straws:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/956434.html
Senior EU officials had been heard denouncing Israel's actions in Gaza, and a number of decisions on the issue had been passed in various European parliaments.

I wonder how many European Parliaments have passed resolutions condemning the thousands of rockets fired at Israel? (sound of crickets chirping)

 

[webfusion]

T-F throws out a hypothetical:

OK web I am Sami Fool a Palestinian resident of Gaza. I am sick of the place and am going to leave....where can I go?

Los Angeles?

"The top investigations official of the Immigration and Naturalization Service has requested an inquiry into the arrest of eight Palestinian immigrants here (in L.A.), purportedly affiliated with the radical Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, and their planned deportation on the ground of subversive activity." --- New York TIMES, 1987.



===========================================
I'm curious, though, T-F, what makes you think the palestinians are any different from the Israelis in this regard?
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/956731.html

 

[yairhol]

Should be interesting to see what this claim changes to....OK web I am Sami Fool a Palestinian resident of Gaza. I am sick of the place and am going to leave....where can I go?

Los Angeles?

I thought TheFool meant to ask how can he get out of Gaza (through which airport) since Israel will not let just any Gazan citizen enter the country on the basis that they want to fly abroad.