FLT 77 Flight Recorder Data - Pilots for Truth

[Brainache]

"Pentagon officials said the recorders, also called "black boxes" were found around 3:40 a.m. under mounds of wreckage in the collapsed part of the building.." (MSNBC Sept 28). "Dick Bridges, a spokesman for Arlington County, Va...said the recorders were found 'right where the plane came into the building.'" (PBS - Sept 14). "

So are you saying that these two statements contradict each other? Because I was under the impression that the collapsed part of the building was right where the plane came in.

 

[DGM]

It seems the PfT have recorded the NTSB and FBI numerous times looking for just those answers. They dont speculate. Do you really mean "careful" or "fearful"....?

It appears PfT has no fear and want answers. Why dont you?

Why don't I what? What should I fear? I can speak with any of the witnesses if I choose I have never seen any reason to doubt what these people have reported. Thousands of people worked on the scene are they all in on it?

 

[eeyore1954]

I posted this before, but it seems to have been split out....


And you are posting in an FDR thread because....?

To point out that the FDR evidence would have to be dramatically convincing and accurate in order to trump all the physical evidence and also to challenge Rob Balsamo to go out and hire unbiased true experts in the field to examine the data if he is really interested in the truth.

 

[tony soprano]

So are you saying that these two statements contradict each other? Because I was under the impression that the collapsed part of the building was right where the plane came in.

However, The ASCE Building Performance Report and a new book published by the Dept Of Defense claims the FDR was found at the exit hole in the C-Ring. "[FDR] found in the building near the hole in the inner C Ring wall leading to A-E Drive." (Undertow quoting new DoD Book).

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/FDR_location_091607.html


Dont "Critical Thinkers" ever click on links anymore? Or do they just throw out the "Critical Thinking" when it supports the govt story.

 

[gumboot]

MSNBC quoted an Arlington Spokesperson. Undertow quoted a picture from the new Pentagon Book released by the DoD. I notice you didnt reference the ASCE report?

Feel free to check all sources if you wish, or make excuses. Whichever.

Edit: My bad, i got it a bit mixed up, MSNBC quoted "Pentagon Officials" and PBS quoted the Arlington Spokesperson.

"Pentagon officials said the recorders, also called "black boxes" were found around 3:40 a.m. under mounds of wreckage in the collapsed part of the building.." (MSNBC Sept 28). "Dick Bridges, a spokesman for Arlington County, Va...said the recorders were found 'right where the plane came into the building.'" (PBS - Sept 14). "

Yes I read the website, I know what they say. My issue is that Pilots For Truth are evidently not checking sources, otherwise they would not use the above.

You obviously don't understand the difference between an official saying something, and a newspaper claiming an official said something.

I didn't mention the ASCE report because the ASCE report is the official government investigation into the Pentagon impact site.

 

[Par]

Dont "Critical Thinkers" ever click on links anymore? Or do they just throw out the "Critical Thinking" when it supports the govt story.

Of course. We’re paid to. We all work for the New World Order. All will kneel trembling before us.

 

[tony soprano]

Yes I read the website, I know what they say. My issue is that Pilots For Truth are evidently not checking sources, otherwise they would not use the above.

You obviously don't understand the difference between an official saying something, and a newspaper claiming an official said something.

I didn't mention the ASCE report because the ASCE report is the official government investigation into the Pentagon impact site.

Fair enough. You're certainly entitled to justify it with that excuse. But the fact remains, govt county spokesman, popular mechanics, the new DoD book and the ASCE report all contradict each other. And as usual, they all refuse to comment. It appears PfT is digging deeper with their names, faces and professional reputations on the line, you can make excuses i suppose from behind your screen.

Ok, im checking out now. Have fun folks. Watch that Beachnut now, he may take the FDR to 6000 feet away, and then delete the post.

 

[gumboot]

Fair enough. You're certainly entitled to justify it with that excuse.

I fail to see how that's an excuse. Do you deny that the ASCE Pentagon Building Performance Report is an official US Government investigation?

But the fact remains, govt county spokesman, popular mechanics, the new DoD book and the ASCE report all contradict each other.

No, the fact remains that an MSNBC news report is contradicted by two official US government documents and the Popular Mechanics investigation. The ASCE report, the DOD book and the Popular Mechanics book do not contradict each other.

So we have on in depth investigation and two official investigations versus one news report. Well call me crazy but my money is on the media being wrong as per usual.

And as usual, they all refuse to comment. It appears PfT is digging deeper with their names, faces and professional reputations on the line, you can make excuses i suppose from behind your screen.

I'm sure Undertow will be right onto it for them. (By the way I'm in front of my screen, not behind it. If I say behind it I wouldn't be able to see anything on it).

 

[beachnut]

Beachnut, you said the plane was max 393 feet at 2800 feet away from the wall. You have made numerous posts regarding DME. You are getting tiring.

Are you really asking "Please tell me you have data to show were 77 was", when you have argued 1.5 DME DCA VOR ad nauseum?

Its in the CSV files and raw file decode. You seen it, you posted many times referencing it, you found out its too high with the latest video and vertical speed. You deleted your post in an attempt to justify, yet used the excuse of "Saving Space".

Give it up already.

393? MSL, PA, RAD ALT, AGL, what was it?

http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/911pentagonflight77evidencesummary

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1849603&postcount=1

Links to give perspective to people who lack facts on 9/11 ,like the FDR. Even me.

(http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/911pentagonflight77evidencesummaryConspiracists ) Conspiracists are afraid to have their fantasies destroyed, so they scrupulously avoid contacting the hundreds of Pentagon 9/11 first responders and the over 8,000 people who worked on rescue, recovery, evidence collection, building stabilization, and security in the days after 9/11. These are just some of the organizations whose members worked on the scene:

Alexandria VA Fire & Rescue, American Airlines, American Red Cross, Arlington County Emergency Medical Services, Arlington County Fire Department, Arlington County Sheriff's Department, Arlington VA Police Department, Armed Forces Institute of Pathology, Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms, DiLorenzo TRICARE Health Clinic staff, DeWitt Army Community Hospital staff, District of Columbia Fire & Rescue, DOD Honor Guard, Environmental Protection Agency Hazmat Teams, Fairfax County Fire & Rescue, FBI Evidence Recovery Teams, FBI Hazmat Teams, Federal Aviation Administration, Federal Disaster Medical Assistance Teams, FEMA 68-Person Urban Search and Rescue Teams Maryland Task Force 1, New Mexico Task Force 1, Tennessee Task Force 1, Virginia Task Force 1, Virginia Task Force 2, FEMA Emergency Response Team, Fort Myer Fire Department, Four U.S. Army Chaplains, Metropolitan Airport Authority Fire Unit, Military District of Washington Engineers Search & Rescue Team, Montgomery County Fire & Rescue, U.S. National Guard units, National Naval Medical Center CCRF, National Transportation Safety Board, Pentagon Defense Protective Service, Pentagon Helicopter Crash Response Team, Pentagon Medical Staff, Rader Army Health Clinic Staff, SACE Structural Safety Engineers and Debris Planning and Response Teams, Salvation Army Disaster Services, U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, US Army Reserves of Virginia Beach Fairfax County and Montgomery County, Virginia Beach Fire Department, Virginia Department of Emergency Management, Virginia State Police

To make up false information on 77 and the FDR means the people spreading those lies are essentially calling all these people liars. Until you can prove all the information about the Pentagon is false, your ideas are fantasy. Good luck; You had 6 years and the best you have is p4t false implications and hearsay.

 

[Calcas]

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/FDR_location_091607.html


Dont "Critical Thinkers" ever click on links anymore? Or do they just throw out the "Critical Thinking" when it supports the govt story.

You finally joined here, huh Rob?

Personally, I stopped visiting your site when I was banned for no reason other than to disagree with you. No cussing, no insulting, no attacking...just disagreeing.

You'll notice that you won't get banned here except for breaking some rules that are very explicit and even then all the details will be posted in the Forum Management section.

I noticed you complaining about attacking the arguer instead of the argument in the same post(s) that you repeatedly demanded personal information from beachnut. Who woulda thunk it?

Pilots for twoof...except when people disagree. My irony meter explodes...

 

[Lisa Simpson]

Sorry, Calcas, he was banned this morning. Or maybe I should have said he was 'wacked'.

 

[pomeroo]

It seems the PfT have recorded the NTSB and FBI numerous times looking for just those answers. They dont speculate. Do you really mean "careful" or "fearful"....?

It appears PfT has no fear and want answers. Why dont you?

In fact, the phony "pilots" wouldn't dream of presenting their bogus "evidence" to anyone who isn't a True Believer. They refuse to debate rationalists for a very good reason.

 

[Unsecured Coins]

Sorry, Calcas, he was banned this morning. Or maybe I should have said he was 'wacked'.

we're gonna blame you either way, so...

 

[Reheat]

Well, here we are at 4+ pages of mostly nonsense and still going.

Note what I said at the very beginning of Mr. "Soprano's" appearance here:

I'm not an expert on FDR's, in fact, I probably don't know as much as many engineers here. But, I do know one thing. That is that they were never intended to and have never been used as a method of determining if a crash occurred or not. That is usually obvious to even a casual observer. They were designed as a tool to HELP determine the cause of accidents. They are not the sole infallible device to be used exclusively in ACCIDENT INVESTIGATION.

Others have said the same thing in different words. Not sufficient data, not suitable for forensic investigation, etc., etc. This is FACT.

All of the different data available prior to the crash into the Pentagon has AA77 ALL OVER THE FREAKIN' PLACE. INS Data places it one place, 84 RADES info places it another, DME places it at another, etc, etc. The only thing we can conclude it that it was in a position to strike the Pentagon and the TOTAL EVIDENCE proves that beyond reasonable doubt. To believe otherwise in view of the mountain of evidence is absurd.

The DME from Reagan National is not accurate enough particularly if you want to cheat on numbers. During a discussion converting the 1.5 nm DME distance from Reagan Nat'l into feet, Robbie (the bully) stated that a nautical mile was 6,000' and his DRONES never objected. A nautical mile=1 nautical mile = 6,076.11549 feet. Not that this makes a huge difference, but when there is argument about slant range differences at low altitude which makes about 14' difference and then "the bully" convinces his experts drones that a nm is 6,000', that is very telling about the desired outcome.

Another thing about DME "Mr. Soprano". Since the FDR seems to record in .1 nm increments the actual distance could be from the VOR could be up to ~600' further than calculated when using a simple rounded 6,000'. Adding all of those variable numbers together could easily increase the distance of AA77 another second further from the Pentagon at the end of the data. Have you considered that the exact second of impact of the NTSB estimate could possibly be wrong? That's a rhetorical question, no answer needed.

I'm afraid quoting Ed Santana as your ultimate expert won't hack it. Of course, the manufacturer is going to say his FDR is perfect. Any reasonable person would expect nothing else. That certainly doesn't mean that it always performs to design specifications. If you disagree prove that it always does. Don't come back with a childish "you prove it" because I'm not making the claims you're supporting, you are.

Where are all of these "other experts" you have referred to? Seems to me the vast majority of the members at p4t are "POLITICAL MALCONTENTS" as is the vast majority of the bowel troof movement. Their posts on the Forum prove it and you wonder why I'm disgusted reading that crap.

ETA: I was writing during the discussion of the ban, so I guess my comments are wasted. Then again, maybe not, as he'll lurk to determine what else he needs to fabricate to continue his fantasy.

 

[DavidJames]

For the lurkers, tony soprano was in fact Rob Balsamo, the unemployed former pilot behind Pilots for Truth.

Lying, as you see, is what he does.

 

[Calcas]

Sorry, Calcas, he was banned this morning. Or maybe I should have said he was 'wacked'.

Seems I'm always a day late and a dollar short. LOL.

Yes, Rob/weedwacker/Tony could always be counted on for a mature discussion.



weedwacker has been banned.

It came to our attention that the required information he or she had provided was incorrect. The standard PM was sent requesting the correct information be supplied. He or she responded with:


Originally Posted by weedwacker

"no. you get **** and like it... ban me.."

 

[beachnut]

Hi rob

He never did say hi. Good points made about the FDR by many. Why does rob have a problem with my agreement with apathoid, reheat, and gumboot?

 

[Reheat]

He never did say hi.

BWHAAAAAA!

Just a couple of additional notes in recap.

Robbie's idea of an expert probably doesn't agree with most rational folks' definition. During one of his infamous "interviews" with a former Navy electronics technician the "expert" stated that there was an electrical anomaly shown in the FDR data that should have resulted in the replacement of the FDR. Is it any wonder why that claim was dropped "like a hot potato"? I deliberately will not post a link to subject others to the junk audio/video propagated by these dolts.

His obsession with Beachnut's assignment to flying a desk is funny. It is normal practice in the AF that senior folks often get reassigned to management jobs not specifically involving flying. That would be particularly appropriate in Beachnut's case since he is also an engineer. It causes the irony meter to peg since it appears that Balsamo has not flown since about 2003 because his Medical expired. Considering all of his "expertise" one can't help but wonder why he can't get a flying job as opposed to selling 9/11 related merchandise.

He's not finished yet as he needs to keep selling those DVDs and t-shirts as a source of income. We'll be hearing more in the future.

 

[jaydeehess]

Thanks for the correction Reheat. It was "ignore" instead of "acknowledge". You are still.. very... wrong. PfT has never "ignored" the DME. It was posted last year, thoroughly, in pinned topics, and a recent video was just published. But perhaps i guess you can say they "ignored" the DME. I disagree with you, respectfully.

Ahh, that explains my mistake. Perhaps it was acknowledged by P4T after I was banned from rob's personal kingdom.

Just for clarity then can someone post all of the distances from the Pentagon at the time of the last recording on the DFDR according to all devices, INS, DME, etc. as well as the height from each data source, radar and pressure alt for instance ,,, and imporatantly, the inherent error in each number.

Perhaps that would illustrate just how accurate any description of the plane's location using the electronic devices actually is in such a situation.

 

[ElMondoHummus]

For the lurkers, tony soprano was in fact Rob Balsamo, the unemployed former pilot behind Pilots for Truth.

Lying, as you see, is what he does.

Redirecting this towards Lisa and other mods: Just out of curiosity, how was that determined?

No, I'm not questioning the verdict; as a matter of fact, I was thinking that exact thing, that this sounded like a JDX sock. I'm just curious as to how it was determined he was Balsamo, that's all.