USA's government, not people, make it great

[SezMe]

My guess: His wife looked him in the eye and pointed out to him that he wasn't spending other peoples' money, but family money, on a failing campaign. I am guessing she wants to still be a woman in a wealthy family when the election cycle is over, rather than having slid down the rung of relative wealth along the way. Guessing that when she pointed that out, he woke up and realized she was right, and then acted accordingly.

I'd add that the kids also saw daddy pissing away "their" money and assisted mom in the backbone department.

 

[SezMe]

America is a great country partly because of the people, but more so because God has blessed this nation.

First off, this assertion has no basis whatsoever. How, exactly did god bless this nation? Which god?

Secondly, one of the more enlightened concepts underlying our national principles is that of a secular government. If god's blessings are so important to the greatness of the country, wouldn't it stand to reason that god would want religion to play a significant (dominant?) role?

Our Constitution, the greatest document every written, was divinely inspired.

Can you point to the divinely inspired parts and specify exactly what would be different if god had not dipped his hand into the cookie jar?

But, people have kept the spirit of it alive despite the attempts of liberals and socialists to define America in their warped terms.

Constitutional damage has been done by politicians at all points on the political spectrum. That same range of other politicians have done yoemans work to restore it. To think that one side of the aisle is pure is the height of blind politican partisanship.

Americans love their country more than others in the world and they will fight to the death to defend it.

As noted by Piggy, such arrogance is stunning. You can't have traveled much. Nor have you taken an ounce of effort to note the brave men and women from every country arouond the globe and into the mists of time who have bravely fought for their own homeland.

Patriotism, love of country, love of God is what has sustained this country through it's darkest times, but these things will inevitably free it from the chains of ignorance and arrogance of those who destroy us.[/quote]
Which can be said for most other nations.

 

[proxywar]

This thread reeks of A brave new world, State is better for you, trust in the state, center around the state. The Nanny state will take care of your needs, trust in big brother. In Soma we trust,theres no pain and suffering here. This thread feels like I'm stuck in A brave new world dialogue between John The Savage and Mustapha Mond.

 

[Piggy]

This thread reeks of A brave new world, State is better for you, trust in the state, center around the state. The Nanny state will take care of your needs, trust in big brother. In Soma we trust,theres no pain and suffering here. This thread feels like I'm stuck in A brave new world dialogue between John The Savage and Mustapha Mond.

How bizarre.

I can't find any such tendency in this thread, which has (for the most part) been a lively discussion regarding the relative roles of the structure of government -- to combat the extremes of autocracy on the one hand and populism on the other -- and the responsibilities and contributions of a politically aware and active citizenry.

I don't see anyone championing a Nanny State or blind faith in office-holders.

Your post reeks of paranoia and knee-jerk reaction, I'm afraid.

 

[Bob Klase]

FDR?

The man who led us out of the Great Depression and to victory in WWII while battling polio?

The man who appears on just about every historians' list of Greatest Presidents?

That FDR?

The man who put (by executive order) 120,000 Japanese and Japanese Americans (of which over 70,000 were US citizens) in prison camps without any trial, appeal or any other constitution protections?

That FDR?

 

[New Ager]

Republicans are interesting characters in that they rail against government, but they basically buy into the notion that government should not be questioned.

LOL!! When there's a good reason to, not for political purposes.

Well, government should not be questioned when it's spying us, prosecuting wars, conducting secret, illegal wars...

Like I said, not for political reasons. None of those things happened. That was just liberal's distortion of events so they could disagree with a conservative.

..and so on, but when we're talking about providing health insurance to sick children -- oh dear Lord, "New Ager" is gonna have a conniption fit. My goodness, the threat to liberty is grave indeed. Let's put on our whiny voices: "think about the children."

Socialized medicine simply doesn't work and it's not what America is about.

And why does the gov't need to get into the insurance business?

Why not let people be self sufficient and responsible for their own lives?

And conniption fits are what liberals have been doing for the whole Bush administration.

 

[New Ager]

Except that our taxes are low, private schools are allowed, no candidate has proposed socialized medicine, and the only one proposing a single-payer health system has dropped out.

Our taxes are still too high. Plus, our tax system is broke and needs to be fixed.

Most can't send their kids to private school so they get the liberal indoctrination.

And Hillary and Obama both have national health care on their agenda. Where have you been?

The real intrusion is coming from the gov't's attempt to assert a right to secretly monitor our emails, phone calls, etc. without any oversight whatsoever.

To catch only terrorists. Again, with the distorted liberal viewpoint.

Don't you ever get tired of bashing your country for political purposes?

Agreed on the abuse of eminent domain.

There's hope for you yet.

 

[New Ager]

Is this a joke, or do you really believe that?

I mean, that bit about Americans loving their country more than anyone else, what basis could anyone have for making a statement like that? A: None.

I believe everything I say.

And yes, Americans are more patriotic than any other country. And the basis is personal experience.

 

[New Ager]

If only we could pick and choose which Federal government excesses to keep or throw out. If it were a straight choice, I'd keep the stuff that impedes terrorists and throw away the junk that keeps us poor and indebted such as the Social Security ponzi scam.

Ahhh, somewhat smart and caring about America.

Most liberals want us to be nice to terrorists and strengthen the ponzi scam.

This is why we don't want them in leadership positions in our country.

 

[Piggy]

The man who put (by executive order) 120,000 Japanese and Japanese Americans (of which over 70,000 were US citizens) in prison camps without any trial, appeal or any other constitution protections?

That FDR?

Yes, that FDR. I didn't say he was Jesus. But one of the "worst presidents"? Please.

 

[Piggy]

None of those things happened. That was just liberal's distortion of events so they could disagree with a conservative.

Wow. You obviously are not familiar with history. The government's own records demonstrate that they did happen. For example, the CIA has been involved in secret wars for half a century, according to their own now-declassified documents, and those of the FBI and Pentagon.

You know, you ought to try finding facts first. I know it's quicker to skip that step, though -- perhaps you're short on time?

 

[Piggy]

Our taxes are still too high. Plus, our tax system is broke and needs to be fixed.

Most can't send their kids to private school so they get the liberal indoctrination.

And Hillary and Obama both have national health care on their agenda. Where have you been?

Funny how Bush ignored the recommendations of his own commission on tax reform, who advised to radically simplify the tax system. Unfortunately, that would not allow Bush to grant targeted tax breaks, which he so loves to do.

True, most can't send their kids to private school. But the option is there, as is home schooling. Public school is not socialized education. Parents are not allowed to fail to educate their kids, but they're not given public schools as the only option.

And yes, all candidates are talking about health care. None of them are talking about socialized medicine, or even a single-payer system (now the DK is out).

You obviously have no clue what these concepts are that you're tossing around.

 

[Piggy]

I believe everything I say.

And yes, Americans are more patriotic than any other country. And the basis is personal experience.

You've been everywhere? Damn! You must be tired.

 

[New Ager]

First off, this assertion has no basis whatsoever. How, exactly did god bless this nation? Which god?

No basis?!? Look at all great things this country has.

And there is only one God.

Secondly, one of the more enlightened concepts underlying our national principles is that of a secular government. If god's blessings are so important to the greatness of the country, wouldn't it stand to reason that god would want religion to play a significant (dominant?) role?

Faith in God does play a significant role in the people.

Can you point to the divinely inspired parts and specify exactly what would be different if god had not dipped his hand into the cookie jar?

It was all divinely inspired and without God, there would be no Constitution.

Constitutional damage has been done by politicians at all points on the political spectrum. That same range of other politicians have done yoemans work to restore it. To think that one side of the aisle is pure is the height of blind politican partisanship.

I don't recall saying that. Arguing a point I didn't make.

As noted by Piggy, such arrogance is stunning.

I know my own country.

You can't have traveled much. Nor have you taken an ounce of effort to note the brave men and women from every country arouond the globe and into the mists of time who have bravely fought for their own homeland.

That's not required to make the statement I made.

So, requiring me to make a statement that isn't needed.

Patriotism, love of country, love of God is what has sustained this country through it's darkest times, but these things will inevitably free it from the chains of ignorance and arrogance of those who destroy us.

Which can be said for most other nations.

This one more than others.

 

[New Ager]

This thread reeks of A brave new world, State is better for you, trust in the state, center around the state. The Nanny state will take care of your needs, trust in big brother.

Yep, the gov't needs to get you a job, health insurance, medical care, school tuition, etc. because we are helpless and stupid and we can't take care of ourselves.

Liberals really think this.

What happened to self reliance, hard work and making good choices?

Why when people fail on the pathway of life is the gov't supposed to bail them out?

 

[Piggy]

To catch only terrorists.

Riiiiight. Like Nixon's activities were in the interest of national security.

(In case you've forgotten, his illegal activities had nothing to do with national security, but were designed to silence his political opponents.)

Wake up, pal.

Bush has asserted the right to hold anyone anywhere, even US citizens, indefinitely without trial merely on the basis of an accusation.

And keep in mind, if he can do it, so can President Hillary.

Under Bush's vision of Presidential Power, if Hillary gets in the White House, she should have the right to merely declare you an enemy and lock you up without a trial, access to an attorney, hebeas corpus, nothing, and keep you there til you die.

Also keep in mind that Bush has lied about his administration's activities at every turn.

First he said there were no warrantless wiretaps. But there were. Then he said there was no unfiltered bulk surveilance. But there was. Etc etc etc.

And the worst of it is, such practices actually hinder the fight against terrorism. They encourage laziness and slopiness. Instead of having to actually figure out what's really going on and who's who, we can simply round up the usual suspects. History shows that this approach not only results in imprisonment of the innocent, but also allows many of the guilty to escape.

And those innocents, and their families, who could have been our allies, instead come to hate us and join the other side.

Don't you ever get tired of bashing your country for political purposes?

First of all, I'm not a Democrat or a liberal. I vote for Dems, Pubs, Independents, whoever I think will do the best job in office. Believe it or not, some people are not partisans.

Second, I don't agree that my government is my country, and I surely don't agree that the executive branch is my country.

By pointing out abuses of the Constitution by certain people in power, I am not "bashing my country". I am trying to preserve it.

I love my country, but not in the way you do. You love your country the way a four year old loves his mommy.

And because of that, you are easily made into a tool of those who would attempt to usurp power for themselves.

However -- back to the OP -- if the Constitution works, they will fail in the attempt.

And that's indeed what we're seeing.

The remaining presidential candidates are not extremists -- all those have been winnowed out.

Unlike you, the majority of people in this country are tired of the gridlock, the lies, the secrecy, the incompetence, on both sides of the aisle.

And the point of my OP is that, imo, it is the resilience of our great Constitution which allows such corrections of abuse to occur.

 

[Piggy]

Most liberals want us to be nice to terrorists

Name one.

Or do you believe Muslim = terrorist?

 

[Piggy]

Please Read This

Btw, if this discussion strays totally away from the OP and turns into an argument about liberalism, religion, and such, I will ask the mods to move those posts out of the thread.

Keep it on topic, please.

Thanks.

 

[New Ager]

Wow. You obviously are not familiar with history. The government's own records demonstrate that they did happen. For example, the CIA has been involved in secret wars for half a century, according to their own now-declassified documents, and those of the FBI and Pentagon.

Weren't we talking about the Bush Administration? How did we get back 50 years ago? And you didn't address the rest of the post so I guess you were distorting those facts.

You know, you ought to try finding facts first. I know it's quicker to skip that step, though -- perhaps you're short on time?

You mean like Bush trying to wiretap terrorists and not private citizens.

 

[New Ager]

Funny how Bush ignored the recommendations of his own commission on tax reform, who advised to radically simplify the tax system. Unfortunately, that would not allow Bush to grant targeted tax breaks, which he so loves to do.

Imagine that, giving tax breaks to those who pay the most taxes.

True, most can't send their kids to private school. But the option is there, as is home schooling.

Many can't do that either.

Public school is not socialized education. Parents are not allowed to fail to educate their kids, but they're not given public schools as the only option.

If one can't afford private schools or have no ability to home school, that is their only option.

Plus, most school systems dictate which school one can attend. If one doesn't like their teaching, their is no choice.

As close to socialism as we get in this country.

And yes, all candidates are talking about health care. None of them are talking about socialized medicine, or even a single-payer system (now the DK is out).

The only reason to talk about it is to install some form of socialized medicine. And that's what liberals are all about. Did you forget about Hillary care in the 90's?