Israel will allow fuel, medicine into Gaza - official

[a_unique_person]

Yair, who are you trying to kid here?

That article quotes unnamed "operatives" and has nothing in it about cranes.


By the way, the breach in the border may have been done just so that the HAMAS was able to get in a large shipment of Nur missiles (made in Iran).
http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2008/me_iran_02_04.asp

The shipment was sent from Lebanon to Egypt's Sinai Peninsula in late 2007. These crates of weapons were ultimately moved across the border in January when the Philadelphi Road was opened, according to Israeli Intelligence.

IIRC, you were saying a few years ago that ground to air missiles had been smuggled into Gaza, did you not? What ever happened to them?

 

[The Fool]

Yair, who are you trying to kid here?

That article quotes unnamed "operatives" and has nothing in it about cranes.

Excellent, you are starting to get the Idea...It doesn't support your claim but it does support the undisputed claim that Hamas smuggles rockets. I know you would like that to be your original claim that was challanged but life is tough and you can't go back and change what you claimed.....or can you?

 

[webfusion]

Without question, there are stockpiles of weapons being accumulated in gaza, including the aforementioned crates of NUR rockets and Grail/Stinger shoulder-fired missiles.

If you are now asking WHY the terrorists have not fired ground-to-air weapons, then I'm sorry a_u_p, but I cannot tell you the answer. I doubt that anyone except the leaders of the terrorists themselves can offer you answers regarding their intentions about their use of weapons they've accumulated. The tactics and strategies of HAMAS are not within my capabilities to evaluate for you.


Yes, T-F, the original claim I made stands. Cranes on trucks were used to transfer heavy weapons, disguised as "motorcyle crates" --- and there's every indication from the highest echelons of Israeli Intelligence that my statement is 100% accurate.

You can believe whatever you want, no skin off my back.

 

[The Fool]

Yes, T-F, the original claim I made stands. Cranes on trucks were used to transfer heavy weapons, disguised as "motorcyle crates" --- and there's every indication from the highest echelons of Israeli Intelligence that my statement is 100% accurate.

You can believe whatever you want, no skin off my back.

web...your original claim stands?? This is not your original claim...

lets look at it eh?

"They even put up heavy cranes to lift over crates of Katyusha rockets, high-caliber machine guns, and mortars."

you claimed that hamas deployed "heavy cranes" to "lift over" the border crates of katyusha rockets and other weapons.

You now say you are sticking to that claim by changing it to light cranes mounted on flatbed trucks loading and unloading stuff on and off the trucks.

But as you say....you can believe whatever you want. Including a belief that what your claim has morphed to is still the same claim.

 

[webfusion]

OIC. Now TheFool is totally focused on the word "heavy" (cranes) --
as if my claim is somehow reduced in impact by looking at the definition of what exact types of cranes were used!
I came in here making mention of the fact that cranes were used to get in masses of weaponry across the walls, and T-F is still stuck trying to determine how come the MSM doesn't have photos and articles about these events! What a joker you are, T-F. Ha Ha. Very funny.


Sometimes I can only sit here and scratch my head in wonder...

 

[Steve H]

We interrupt this episode of "Crane Claims - Does Size Really Matter?" for a regional news brief:

* Israel has killed 7 people (5 Hamas, another militant and a school teacher) inside the Gaza Strip in continuing operations against Hamas militants following the recent Dimona suicide bombing. Hamas for it's part has claimed to have lobbed 40 rockets and 60 mortar shells at Israel as this latest back-and-forth escalates.

* Egypt's foreign minister threatened to "break the legs" of any Palestinian that attempts to circumvent the Egypt-Gaza border during an interview on state television. He then went on to blame both Israel and Hamas for the current situation in Gaza and appeared to be just cranky in general.

Well, that all for now.

This is Steve H at the Mideast Regional News Desk wishing you a pleasant evening.

 

[The Fool]

OIC. Now TheFool is totally focused on the word "heavy" (cranes) --
as if my claim is somehow reduced in impact by looking at the definition of what exact types of cranes were used!
I came in here making mention of the fact that cranes were used to get in masses of weaponry across the walls, and T-F is still stuck trying to determine how come the MSM doesn't have photos and articles about these events! What a joker you are, T-F. Ha Ha. Very funny.


Sometimes I can only sit here and scratch my head in wonder...

Sigh...I have officially given up, your campaign of spin has succeeded. Claim what you like when you like and all right thinking people will accept what you say as fact. You have secret sources and are hereby excempt from demands for evidence to backup your claims.

You can claim that the large cranes that were lifting stuff over fences when the border restrictions first collapsed were lifting boxes of rockets....you can support this by pointing out that somewhere some other small hoist arms attached to some trucks must surely have lifted some crates of rockets onto or off some trucks.

wouldn't it just be easier not to parrot hearsay as fact?

 

[webfusion]

T-F surrenders:

Sigh...I have officially given up, your campaign of spin has succeeded.

Spin?

Whew.


In post # 81, I began by making note of the influx of arms and cash across the breached Philadelphi corridor.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3367174&postcount=81

Then, a bit later, in an exchange about the supply of fuel and other economic ties (see my posts #151 and #163 and #166, inter-alia) I was showing how the HAMAS screwed the people of gaza by overthrowing FATAH and leaving the International community without any recourse but to shun economic ties. They knew this would happen, and they just didn't care.

Youre response to this was "sigh...whats the point web? Is this some sort of Pea and shell debate method?"

To which I clearly indicated that the HAMAS was the true party engaged in the pea and shell game.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3375670&postcount=169

Post # 169 is where I offered the information I had been told about (my sources are officers in the IAF). Would anyone reading that post consider it "spin" ?

I doubt it.

 

[mrbaracuda]

* Egypt's foreign minister threatened to "break the legs" of any Palestinian that attempts to circumvent the Egypt-Gaza border during an interview on state television.

No he didn't?

 

[The Fool]

T-F surrenders:

Spin?

Whew.


In post # 81, I began by making note of the influx of arms and cash across the breached Philadelphi corridor.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3367174&postcount=81

Then, a bit later, in an exchange about the supply of fuel and other economic ties (see my posts #151 and #163 and #166, inter-alia) I was showing how the HAMAS screwed the people of gaza by overthrowing FATAH and leaving the International community without any recourse but to shun economic ties. They knew this would happen, and they just didn't care.

Youre response to this was "sigh...whats the point web? Is this some sort of Pea and shell debate method?"

To which I clearly indicated that the HAMAS was the true party engaged in the pea and shell game.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3375670&postcount=169

Post # 169 is where I offered the information I had been told about (my sources are officers in the IAF). Would anyone reading that post consider it "spin" ?

I doubt it.

This is the last time I am going to explain this, if you continue to ignore what I say then its obviously you decision to continue a silly game.

You provided support, over and over, for the claim that Hamas smuggles in weapons. This is not contested. Get it? This is not contested.

Now....The particular claim you made and keep trying to rewrite was that those big cranes that palestinians were using to lift animals and supplies across fences were actually lifting Boxes of rockets and machineguns. Your only support for this when requested was to say you had been told it was true by an un-named source. Fine, no problems....believe what you wish but it still does not turn those claimed events into facts. Something you have chosen to take issue with people for not going along with.

So now you can repeat some other undisputed claim or restate your hearsay source for your actual claim if you like. I think you are simply trolling now so go for it...I'm done pointing out basics.

 

[Steve H]

No he didn't?

'Fraid so.

 

[webfusion]

This is the last time I am going to explain this, if you continue to ignore what I say then its obviously you decision to continue a silly game.... *snip* ... I think you are simply trolling now so go for it...I'm done pointing out basics.

The basics are as follows:

HAMAS used the breach in the border to bring across masses of weaponry.
Including NUR and Grad-type rockets.
IDF personnel saw them using multi-ton lifting cranes to bring over large crates of these munitions. Some of the IDF personnel are acquaintances of mine.
They told me what they had witnessed.

You tell me "to believe what I wish" -- no, T-F, I know what happened, and what happened was that during those nights while the breach existed, HAMAS and specifically had trucks and cranes positioned for moving rockets, mortars, machine guns, and RPG's, as they made use of the opportunity to build up their arms stockpiles. That you refuse to believe cranes were used in this manner is astonishing, in light of all the available evidence.


But, hey, you're TheFool, and if you want to say my claim is "silly" that's OK, no problem.
I know what the truth of the matter is, and cranes were indeed used.

 

[webfusion]

DUP

 

[webfusion]

Beyond all that, I find it telling that HAMAS is now attempting to escalate things and draw the IDF into gaza, with the intention of using Hezbollah-style tactics.

I wonder if the IDF has figured out a new strategy to deal with the guerilla warfare of HAMAS?

 

[The Fool]

The basics are as follows:

IDF personnel saw them using multi-ton lifting cranes to bring over large crates of these munitions. Some of the IDF personnel are acquaintances of mine.
They told me what they had witnessed.

were they in uniform web? These IDF acquantances because if they were there they are invisible as there were no IDF there at the time. Maybe they saw it happening on the observation cameras and used thier x-ray vision to see the stuff inside the boxes. Maybe they were under cover? In disguise? Secret agents who's method of getting thier intelligence reports out is to ring you in the USA and you then post the reports on JREF.

sorry but this does deserve an academy award...Unfortunately it doesn't surpass all the other guff you post here from your "secret sources" about air strikes that are going to happen "for sure" and air to ground missiles you are "certain" have been smuggled in but seem to have vanished. This river of inside information is certainly spectacular. Whats the next gold nugget of inside information you have for us?


Hey folks I'm sorry that all the other times I said it was brilliant inside info that is for sure certain positively factual ridgy didgy spotless true....but THIS time....for sure!!!!

keep it up web, its priceless stuff.

 

[webfusion]

OK, here we go...

were they in uniform web? These IDF acquantances because if they were there they are invisible as there were no IDF there at the time.

The IDF is right there.

Israeli Intelligence Services revealed that the military would need to study the new types of weaponry that were moved into Gaza in recent weeks and, if needed, alter its deployment around and within the Strip.

Around and within. That means the IDF absolutely is right there.

T-F, you must think we are idiots!

This river of inside information is certainly spectacular.

Well, I don't know about it being 'spectacular' but I do happen to have some personal sources. After all, I served for over 15 years in the Israeli security forces, and I have friends in the IDF and IAF reserves who continue to be active in and around Gaza and the West Bank. That counts for something, I would say. You may disagree, but then again, you're TheFool, so you probably know better.

By the way, there are several IDF aerial observation balloons at Rafah --
Line-of-sight directly into the border zone.
And RPV's.

As I said before, this entire story is a non-story for the MSM, because it's all just as plain as the nose on your face, and that's not news.

For whatever reasons T-F has, he still demands "evidence" --- although this mention of heavy-lifting cranes is not a supernatural claim! You would think that I had revealed the use of anti-gravity rays for moving these munitions!

 

[The Fool]

OK, here we go...

The IDF is right there.

So when Israel says it has left Gaza and says it does not man the rafah crossing and nobody else in the world can see them you know they are there.....because of some statement in an article that says Israel is considering altering thier deployment some time in the future....oh yea sorry, forgot to add that these IDF people that nobody can see are your acquantances and they tell you stuff.....secret stuff.

T-F, you must think we are idiots!

you seem pretty committed to putting forward that perception.

Well, I don't know about it being 'spectacular' but I do happen to have some personal sources. After all, I served for over 15 years in the Israeli security forces, and I have friends in the IDF and IAF reserves who continue to be active in and around Gaza and the West Bank. That counts for something, I would say. You may disagree, but then again, you're TheFool, so you probably know better.

and stuff you post here, heresay from un-named "personal sources" is to be accepted as fact. yes?

By the way, there are several IDF aerial observation balloons at Rafah --
Line-of-sight directly into the border zone.
And RPV's.

Are you claiming to have access to the intelligence they gather? Do you think they can see inside crates? The fact that Israel has observation cameras there is not disputed and has already been mentioned before in this thread. Why are you trying to use this information now? Are you claiming that there is some evidence that they gathered that you know about? Or is it just cover for your incorrect statement that there were IDF people at the crossing (the ones you claim feed you inside information).

As I said before, this entire story is a non-story for the MSM, because it's all just as plain as the nose on your face, and that's not news.

Sorry, thats your problem....it certainly would be good for your claim if somebody, anybody...backed you up. You will simply have to keep working on generalising and massaging your original claim.

For whatever reasons T-F has, he still demands "evidence" --- although this mention of heavy-lifting cranes is not a supernatural claim! You would think that I had revealed the use of anti-gravity rays for moving these munitions!

Why the scare quotes around evidence web? I know its not a supernatural claim...its just a claim that lacks any supporting evidence.....so is more accurately called speculation. Something you seem outraged by.....your speculation is enhanced by claims of unidentified inside sources.....so yes, its more than simple speculation. Its more like speculation backed by further unsupported claims of inside information.....and repetition.

How long can you go on before this is obvious. I think it already obvious to you but now its just a game. Sorry web...even gold plated first grade speculation is still speculation.

carry on....

 

[webfusion]

Sorry, T-F, it's not speculation. It's fact, and you can ask for x-ray pictures all day long, and that won't change the facts of those crates containing weapons, not motorcycles.

The HAMAS used cranes to load crates of arms onto trucks, including NUR (improved Grad) and tons of other munitions.

We're done here.

 

[webfusion]

• The Israel Air Force on Saturday targeted four Qassam rocket-launching squads in Beit Hanoun in the Gaza Strip, following a barrage of 30 rockets Friday that pounded southern Israeli communities.

Hmmmmmmmmm, how did the IAF manage to target four different rocket-launching sites, and eliminate these terrorists, if we're not there? (All very hush-hush).


Meanwhile, regarding the OP:

Late Thursday, Israel cut back one percent of the power it supplies to Gaza, Defense Ministry spokesman Shlomo Dror said. Israel will continue gradually scaling back electricity until the territory's Hamas rulers put an end to the rocket fire, he said Friday.

"It's their choice. They need to choose if they want to keep investing in
rockets and in attacking Israel or if they want electricity from Israel," Dror said.

 

[The Fool]

Sorry, T-F, it's not speculation. It's fact, and you can ask for x-ray pictures all day long, and that won't change the facts of those crates containing weapons, not motorcycles.

The HAMAS used cranes to load crates of arms onto trucks, including NUR (improved Grad) and tons of other munitions.

We're done here.

sorry web, its not a fact, no matter how many times you cry about it. Facts require evidence to be established. Even accepting that you have rewritten your claim from large cranes listing rockets over border fences to hydraulic lift arms loading trucks....somewhere, anywhere...... you need some form of evidence that is not you promising its a fact.

But anyway, feel free to proclaim it a fact one more time.

I also notice that you are using the evidence that Israel can track where (or nearly where) a rocket launch came from as support for your claim that IDF personnel were at raffah when the blockade collapsed.....thats close to a new record for use of irrelevant information in support of speculation.

Can we clear one thing up web....you are now saying that the IDF has not withdrawn from Gaza? So all the times you have been saying that you have withdrawen....it is all lies? what are you going to do now web....stick to one (there or not there) or just continue to flip between the two depending on which is most usefull in each thread?