New Age religions don't make you happy

[quarky]

Clark Kent could fly, but isn't allowed.
Jesus could escape from the cross, but its not in the cards.

I forget what I'm arguing about.

 

[Jimbo07]

Clark Kent could fly, but isn't allowed.
Jesus could escape from the cross, but its not in the cards.

I forget what I'm arguing about.

Actually, I quite like the Superman mythology, especially as presented in the most recent movie. There were allusions to Greek Myth. The idea is like asking the question, "What if a Greek God came to earth?"

He has super powers, and can even lift islands, but is subject to many of the same foibles as people. He can't be everywhere at once. He's smart and guided by moral clarity, but not brilliant. He wants to belong, but doesn't. It's sad, really. Plus, there were some good special effects...

 

[six7s]

He has super powers, and can even lift islands, but is subject to many of the same foibles as people. He can't be everywhere at once. He's smart and guided by moral clarity, but not brilliant. He wants to belong, but doesn't. It's sad, really. Plus, there were some good special effects...

I like this, not just because it's concise and coherent, but also because it prompted me to notice a parallel:

Wooists want super powers, but are subject to most of the same foibles as other mammals. They're smart and guided by moral clarity, but not brilliant. They wants to be superior, but aren't. It's sad, really. Minus: there are some pathetic special affectations...

 

[flim flam]

i refute it thus!!

" i observed that though we are satisfied his doctrine is not true, it is impossible to refute it. i shall never forget the alacrity with which Johnson answered, striking his foot with mighty force against a large stone, till he rebounded from it - "I Refute it thus!"
Samuel Johnson's refutation of Bishop Berkely(Boswell:life)

 

[Stout]

thoth108....I'm glad to hear your spiritual path has contributed to your personal happiness. In my experience, I've never noticed a direct relationship between spirituality and happiness. To me, at least it seems like the woo-positive types have exactly the same issues that us non-woo types do.

I'd tend to agree with the conclusions of the study quoted in the OP, but I'm a little hesitant seeing as how the subjects were 21 year olds. If they'd been 31, or 41 year olds...been around the block a few more times, I'd be inclined to accept the results a little more readily.

six7s....Good point about the super powers, I hadn't thought of it quite like that before.

 

[dannagain]

Let me ask you this, Zen master Dan,

Do I detect a hint of anger amidst your shamanic bliss?
By the way I apologise for saying Smahamnist taoism is new age woo. After a quick google I see that it is indeed ancient woo. Excuse my ignorance.

would you be willing to accept what I'm saying is TRUE if it was proven to you beyond a doubt, or would you still desperately cling to your current world-view? You're comfortable with what you know, and that's why you cling to it, and any psychologist would tell you the same thing - change is difficult; especially a change of world-view. You should examine if you are brave enough to accept that reality is not what you have been taught to believe it is, and then question me about my beliefs.

Actually it's the other way round. I used to think like you and then I woke up. For me to go back to my old woo thinking it would take, hmmm, evidence maybe?
Can you provide any? If you can why haven't you won the million dollars? Remember that claiming that 'doubt kills magic' is a paranormal and testable claim in itself.

 

[dannagain]

remember your Buddhist teachings kids, life is an illusion.

(Sigh) It just means that people project their own ******** onto reality. It doesn;t mean anything magical. One person will see a dog as a pet, one will see it as an object of fear and another will see it as a tasty snack. Different projections onto the same reality.

And, no I won't be claiming the million dollar prize! I'm not interested. Why should I be? They give away more than that each week in the lottery, and all I have to do to win that is look into the future and get the numbers.

How convenient. Have you actually done this? You make it sound so easy. If you haven't, why not? And don't say you dont need the money. You could win the money and donate it to your favourite charity. Only a complete ******* would refrain from using an ability that could allow them to win huge sums of money and then use the money to help others. You're not a complete ******* are you?

 

[quarky]

I hate million dollar prizes, personally. They suck.

I w3in some ****** crap almost everyday, according to the false advertizing that lands in my mailbox, which I must pay to have disposed of improperly.

If I had paranormal powers, I'd be a lot liklier to give Randy a million, than to jump thru flaming hoops for him.

Get serious.

One way to recognize paranormal abilities, should they ever exist, is that they aren't likely to need to suck-up to folks claiming to be sub-paranormal.
Applying for the dubious prize $ is tantamount to admitting fraud.

A real psychic, if one exists, will have easier means to a million bucks, if they even have money concerns. I'm not paranormal, but if I was, I'd spit on this silly prize, and have Randi jump through some stupid hoop. Otherwise, normal trumps paranormal. Paranormal, if it exists, would be calling the shots along time before having to appease skeptics.

 

[six7s]

Paranormal, if it exists, would be calling the shots along time before having to appease skeptics.

I, for one, would be 'appeased' simply by evidence, any valid evidence, anywhere, anyhow...

 

[thoth108]

Do I detect a hint of anger amidst your shamanic bliss?
By the way I apologise for saying Smahamnist taoism is new age woo. After a quick google I see that it is indeed ancient woo. Excuse my ignorance.

Very ancient indeed! And no, I'm not angry at you! I appreciate your Zen take on the whole thing - it's very grounding for me. Zen is great for many people, but for me there was something more to what Buddha said that seemed to go beyond just Zen. You do know that Zen and Taoism go hand in hand, right?

Actually it's the other way round. I used to think like you and then I woke up. For me to go back to my old woo thinking it would take, hmmm, evidence maybe?
Can you provide any? If you can why haven't you won the million dollars? Remember that claiming that 'doubt kills magic' is a paranormal and testable claim in itself.

"Woke up," in the Nirvana sense?

"EVIDENCE" is something that we see differently, because:

(Sigh) It just means that people project their own ******** onto reality. It doesn;t mean anything magical. One person will see a dog as a pet, one will see it as an object of fear and another will see it as a tasty snack. Different projections onto the same reality.

Life IS an illusion. I appreciate your view on it, though, and I stress that my OPINIONS are my own... That being said, I think that all of life is an illusion. Now that I've learned shamanic-sight, or "the second attention," I can really see that we are all looking at our own personal reality. I'm preparing a reply that explains the Second-Attention, which is a difficult concept to explain, but once you experience it directly then, "Life is an Illusion," ceases to be just a philosophical view point and becomes a concrete reality.

 

[thoth108]

How convenient. Have you actually done this? You make it sound so easy. If you haven't, why not? And don't say you dont need the money. You could win the money and donate it to your favourite charity. Only a complete ******* would refrain from using an ability that could allow them to win huge sums of money and then use the money to help others. You're not a complete ******* are you?

No, it isn't easy, and here's why:

I'm not the only person who is intending to win the lottery, and any time that I play numbers that I have predicted, and then I don't win, it is because my intent to win is not as strong as another person's intent to win. Their magick was stronger than mine. I have to admit, though, that I don't really care about money. I'm content with where I am, and I don't spend all day and night meditating on the winning numbers. Remember, my new-age woo-religion has made me happy.

As for, "helping" people with the money; well, does money really help anyone? I'm not going to get into a debate about morals, because I see life differently than most people... the strife, struggle, death, destruction, and "evil" that goes on in the world isn't necessarily evil. How would we learn if we didn't have a place to struggle? Why would we be motivated if we didn't have a moral sense of right and wrong to drive us for something "better?" What you see as helping someone, may actually derail their opportunity to learn a more important lesson on their own. How does the saying go: Bring a man a fish, feed him for a day, teach him to fish and you feed him for a life time. I'd rather you learn to fish, than let me buy you fish sticks for a year.

Besides, if money was the cure to all problems the what the **** is going on with Britney Spears. Surely all that money can buy her the answer to her problems, right?

 

[quarky]

I, for one, would be 'appeased' simply by evidence, any valid evidence, anywhere, anyhow...

well, you'll never see any evidence with that attitude.

(Har-har)

 

[CFLarsen]

thoth108,

Any chance of you addressing my questions in post # 115?

 

[six7s]

...any time that I play numbers that I have predicted, and then I don't win, it is because my intent to win is not as strong as another person's intent to win. Their magick was stronger than mine...

thoth108,

On a sceptics forum, consideration of extra-ordinary claims requires extra-ordinary evidence

Please, at least provide something that supports your implication that 'magick' is more than just a fantastic new-age concept

 

[Stout]

Besides, if money was the cure to all problems the what the **** is going on with Britney Spears. Surely all that money can buy her the answer to her problems, right?

Britney's problem is that she's using the money wrongly. What's she worth? About 50 million ? Just think how much happiness she could buy if she took 49 of that 50 and bought food and clean drinking water for those living in abject poverty in many parts of the world and still have a million left over to live comfortably with.

She'd end up happy in a way that no amount of living the high life can provide and I assume that anyone who wins the MDC and acts in the same altruistic fashion would too.

 

[CFLarsen]

No, it isn't easy, and here's why:

I'm not the only person who is intending to win the lottery, and any time that I play numbers that I have predicted, and then I don't win, it is because my intent to win is not as strong as another person's intent to win. Their magick was stronger than mine. I have to admit, though, that I don't really care about money. I'm content with where I am, and I don't spend all day and night meditating on the winning numbers. Remember, my new-age woo-religion has made me happy.

As for, "helping" people with the money; well, does money really help anyone? I'm not going to get into a debate about morals, because I see life differently than most people... the strife, struggle, death, destruction, and "evil" that goes on in the world isn't necessarily evil. How would we learn if we didn't have a place to struggle? Why would we be motivated if we didn't have a moral sense of right and wrong to drive us for something "better?" What you see as helping someone, may actually derail their opportunity to learn a more important lesson on their own. How does the saying go: Bring a man a fish, feed him for a day, teach him to fish and you feed him for a life time. I'd rather you learn to fish, than let me buy you fish sticks for a year.

Besides, if money was the cure to all problems the what the **** is going on with Britney Spears. Surely all that money can buy her the answer to her problems, right?

No, let's talk morals for a bit. Because I've heard this argument of yours before, also from people who claimed to have supernatural powers, yet refused to let those powers come to any real use.

What you and your fellow woos are arguing is that it is good for people to suffer - other people. They benefit so much from struggling. If you used your powers to help poor people, they wouldn't be motivated.

In your book, letting people suffer is the correct moral choice. The sublime choice. You are happy because you don't help those less fortunate than you.

And yet, you forget that just a few posts ago, you were so eager to teach people how you got to such an illuminated position. Then, you had no qualms lecturing on the benefits of these fantastic powers that you have learned to master. How much it would help us.

But when reality comes knocking - when it isn't just talk - you suddenly hide behind a corrupt moral position.

 

[quarky]

I take issue with intent and the lottery:
I doubt that winning the lottery is a battle of intent strength amongst millions of potential winners.
I'd suspect that there are many winners that just bought a ticket and didn't give it much thought at all; just like every week, on their way home from work.

Surely all lottery winners aren't masters of intent.
?

 

[six7s]

Surely all lottery winners aren't masters of intent

And, like wooists, slaves to wishful thinking

 

[quarky]

One of the funniest things about the wishfull thinking of lottery players is the sad fate of most winners. I lost the link to the stats, but recall reading that most winners were broke and divorced within 2 years of 'victory'. Strange fate to pray for, if its true.
(any link to these stats appreciated)

 

[thoth108]

All is well.

No, let's talk morals for a bit. Because I've heard this argument of yours before, also from people who claimed to have supernatural powers, yet refused to let those powers come to any real use.

What you and your fellow woos are arguing is that it is good for people to suffer - other people. They benefit so much from struggling. If you used your powers to help poor people, they wouldn't be motivated.

In your book, letting people suffer is the correct moral choice. The sublime choice. You are happy because you don't help those less fortunate than you.

And yet, you forget that just a few posts ago, you were so eager to teach people how you got to such an illuminated position. Then, you had no qualms lecturing on the benefits of these fantastic powers that you have learned to master. How much it would help us.

But when reality comes knocking - when it isn't just talk - you suddenly hide behind a corrupt moral position.

"Struggle" and "sufferring" as you call it appear quite differently to different people. If life were a game of football, and God were the coach, would you advise that the players' complaints about the struggle and sufferring that they go through during practice would be without merit in the end? They are bettering themselves for the road ahead. Also, in my spiritual beliefs, there is not a single sentient being on this planet (or any other) that did not choose their complete destiny through life; choosing the struggles they would go through to learn from. It all goes back to karma, which is a complicated and intricate thing but through it we learn to balance our eternal nature. Can you think of a single bad experience in your life from which you did not LEARN a very valuable lesson? I assert that you intended for that bad experience to happen to you, prior to your birth into this life, so that you could learn that very lesson from that experience. There is no "sufferring," there is only what we have intended.

So, yes, you can say that letting people suffer is my moral choice, BUT it is not a corrupt one - I am leaving them be to a life of their own design, which may appear to anyone else as a life of sufferring. That life of struggle will in fact turn out to be exactly what that soul required during this incarnation to work through a problem/lesson(karma). In my system of morality there is also reincarnation, destiny, and karma to consider. It's not a "corrupt moral position," from where I'm standing; it's actually a path of compassion, and recognition of an individual's right to live the life that they have intended.

As for teaching magick, well, that is a transfomative process by which any soul may achieve it's highest goal - the attainment of nirvana, or enlightenment; there are many ways to liberation, magick is only one path among the many. By teaching, I have done my part AND not interfered with the destinies of those souls that I affect.

Besides, I'm a Taoist. There is nothing wrong with the world as it is, in my moral belief system. All is Well.