So you're an atheist. Ok, what next?

[DOC]

The rest of your post is meaningless until you can present a quote from the new testament which unequivically states that slavery is against god's will.

Something like, "Ye, Jesus said unto them, "slavery is bad, mmm kay." would be acceptable.

ETA: I see you deleted your post. Shall I assume that to mean you recant your argument?

I can't bring in a quote that Jesus was against graffiti on public buildings but that doesn't mean He was for it.

And Martin Luther King graduating from a seminary school, becoming a ordained Christian pastor, and even being named in honor of Martin Luther tells us that in no way do blacks believe Jesus or God supported slavery.

I decided to fine tune my earlier argument that I posted but it's just not worth the time.

Martin Luther King who graduated from seminary college and Barack Obama's support for Christianity is all I really need to say about your implication that Jesus supported slavery. Blacks know more about the pain of slavery than you or I will ever know.

 

[JoeEllison]

I can't bring in a quote that Jesus was against graffiti on public buildings but that doesn't mean He was for it.

And Martin Luther Kings graduating from a seminary school, becoming a ordained Christian pastor, and even being named in honor of Martin Luther tells us that in no way do blacks believe Jesus or God supported slavery.

I decided to fine tune my earlier argument but it's just not worth the time. Martin Luther King who graduated from seminary college and Barack Obama's support for Christianity is all I really need to say about your implication that Jesus supported slavery.

You haven't said anything about the FACT that Jesus supported slavery. You can't just string random things together, shout A-HA!, and pretend that you've made a point.

 

[bokonon]

The rest of your post is meaningless until you can present a quote from the new testament which unequivically states that slavery is against god's will.

Something like, "Ye, Jesus said unto them, "slavery is bad, mmm kay." would be acceptable.

ETA: I see you deleted your post. Shall I assume that to mean you recant your argument?

That's really a problem that most of the "objective morality = God's word = (my holy book written more than 1000 years ago)" crowd don't like to grapple with.

While they may claim that they follow the Bible or the Quran as the inerrant and eternal word of God, they inevitably run into this "slavery" conundrum.

They could resolve it by admitting that the Bible was written by mere mortals, who subscribed to the subjective ethics of their particular time in their particular backwater, but then they wouldn't be able to claim the eternal authority they so desperately crave.

They could resolve it by cleaving to God's word, and asserting that slavery really IS okay, but that might alienate a sizable block of people whose ethics are a bit more evolved.

So they just hem and haw and generally avoid the issue, perhaps posting a link to a website that doesn't discuss the issue at all, or if it discusses, fails to resolve satisfactorily.

Meanwhile, those of us who manage to content ourselves with mere subjective morality (Ersatz Brothers - "It's not perfect, but it's the best we have") somehow live just as ethically. Funny how that happens.

 

[Tricky]

I can't bring in a quote that Jesus was against graffiti on public buildings but that doesn't mean He was for it.

Based on your interpretation of the bible, is Jesus against graffiti on public buildings? What if it's Christian graffiti? And are any situations where he would change his position on graffiti?

See, I can't find anything in the bible on graffiti, but I can find lots of stuff on slavery, and most of it reads like an instruction booklet.

I quoted this earlier, but it bears repeating. Perhaps you'd like to comment on it, DOC.

The church of this country is not only indifferent to the wrongs of the slave, it actually takes sides with the opressors. For my part I would say, wecome the infidelity! Welcome atheism! Welcome anything in preference to the gospel, as preached by those Divines! They convert the very name of religion into an engine of tyranny and bararous cruelty, and serve to confirm more infidels in this age than all the infidel writings of Thomas Paine, Voltaire and Bolingbroke, put together, have done!

Now Martin Luther King was a great man, but he wasn't a slave. Fredrick Douglas was a slave, and the most well-known, well-read and outspoken slave of his era. Who would you say had a better take on what Christianity says about slavery?

 

[bokonon]

Martin Luther King who graduated from seminary college and Barack Obama's support for Christianity is all I really need to say about your implication that Jesus supported slavery. Blacks know more about the pain of slavery than you or I will ever know.

Or they could try some lame "argument from authority" that doesn't address the opinions expressed in the "infallible word" at all.

 

[delphi_ote]

Martin Luther King who graduated from seminary college and Barack Obama's support for Christianity is all I really need to say about your implication that Jesus supported slavery. Blacks know more about the pain of slavery than you or I will ever know.

So... to paraphrase your "argument":

Some black people are Christian.
Some black people were slaves.
Therefore no Christians supported slavery.

 

[DOC]

You haven't said anything about the FACT that Jesus supported slavery. You can't just string random things together, shout A-HA!, and pretend that you've made a point.

So since you and joobz believe Jesus supported slavery, that would mean both of you also believe Jesus, who was a Jew, supported the Jews being held as slaves in Egypt for 400 years.

 

[Olowkow]

That's your opinion. OK. Then don't worry and be happy.
Then neither you nor your father was qualified to teach the bible since it's right there in front of you in Genesis. : )

I am one of the happiest people I know! My father was a fine man. You have no idea, nor any way of knowing, of the cruelty of what you have just said, so I will just let it pass.

You don't seem to get it...I don't believe in Genesis. Check out my sig. You could learn something from Ingersoll.

Since its' just a buzz word to you why are you trying to waste my time asking me questions????.

Good question. Uhmm, I guess you wasted your own time or you would not have responded. I'm just telling you what I think. I have no idea if you are a nice person in real life or not. I don't really care. This is cyberspace, so behave yourself. If you need a cosmic bellhop, fine, be my guest. I have no pretensions to deprive you of that.

BTW
I am not seeking debates. Just trying to prevent miisconceptions leading to misrepresentations.

Fair enough, but when you insult...I insult back. Try to get this concept: I don't care about your religion...just leave me alone and don't insult atheists with your theoproctology, getting ideas out of your nether regions.

You become a boor when you blanket a segment of society with your atheophobistic drivel. Trying to convert the unbelievers? No thanks. It just doesn't work.

 

[SezMe]

So since you and joobz believe Jesus supported slavery, that would mean both of you also believe Jesus, who was a Jew, supported the Jews being held as slaves in Egypt for 400 years.

You've turned the argument upside down. The issue is not whether Jesus supported slavery, the issue is did he condemn it? Please provide a citation in which Jesus clearly says, "Slavery is an abomination worse than eating crab."

 

[slingblade]

So since you and joobz believe Jesus supported slavery, that would mean both of you also believe Jesus, who was a Jew, supported the Jews being held as slaves in Egypt for 400 years.

Well, yeah, it being God's divine will that they were there, which anyone who reads his bible knows. Are you saying Jesus doesn't support God's will for his people?

 

[joobz]

I can't bring in a quote that Jesus was against graffiti on public buildings but that doesn't mean He was for it.

And Martin Luther King graduating from a seminary school, becoming a ordained Christian pastor, and even being named in honor of Martin Luther tells us that in no way do blacks believe Jesus or God supported slavery.

I decided to fine tune my earlier argument that I posted but it's just not worth the time.

Martin Luther King who graduated from seminary college and Barack Obama's support for Christianity is all I really need to say about your implication that Jesus supported slavery. Blacks know more about the pain of slavery than you or I will ever know.

DOC, you are changing the subject.
Do you have proof, actual biblical proof, that the god of the new testament condemned slavery?

To remind everyone how this ties into the thread:
DOC, the god of the bible permitted slavery and even provided rules by which masters and slaves were to behave.

We know that slavery(whether born into or sold into) is morally abhorrent. No man is the property of another.

As such, god (or at least the god of the bible) is NOT, in any way, a source of objective morality. As such, the entire premise of this thread is wrong. You do not need god to have meaning in your life or to have a moral center.

 

[fishbob]

You can't just string random things together, shout A-HA!, and pretend that you've made a point.

The validity of the point is questionable (at best), but that is exactly what he just did.

Tactic #14 from the Bleever playbook.

 

[delphi_ote]

So since you and joobz believe Jesus supported slavery, that would mean both of you also believe Jesus, who was a Jew, supported the Jews being held as slaves in Egypt for 400 years.

Let's deconstruct another atrocity against logic, shall we?

Jesus is a Jew.
Jews were slaves.
Therefore, Jesus did not support slavery.

 

[joobz]

Let's deconstruct another atrocity against logic, shall we?

Jesus is a Jew.
Jews were slaves.
Therefore, Jesus did not support slavery.
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/delphi_ote/fail-2.jpg

Bring me more fail photos!

 

[delphi_ote]

Bring me more fail photos!

I've got all the usual ones, but you'll have to be patient and wait for DOC to make another disastrous attempt at constructing a logical argument.

If DOC keeps this up, though, I might have to go look for more...

 

[John_Geeshu]

Logical fallacy alert

Martin Luther King who graduated from seminary college and Barack Obama's support for Christianity is all I really need to say about your implication that Jesus supported slavery. Blacks know more about the pain of slavery than you or I will ever know.

Blatant Appeal to Authority.

Joobz's criticism stands.

 

[Tricky]

Blatant Appeal to Authority.

Joobz's criticism stands.

Wow! A newbie who already knows his logical fallacies. Cool!

Welcome to the forums, Mr. Geeshu.

(and ghesundheit)

 

[CapelDodger]

You've turned the argument upside down. The issue is not whether Jesus supported slavery, the issue is did he condemn it? Please provide a citation in which Jesus clearly says, "Slavery is an abomination worse than eating crab."

More generally, where in the New Testament is slavery referred to as anything other than a societal norm? "Do unto others ..." can easily mean "respect your betters as you expect your inferiors to respect you". Nothing revolutionary in that.

 

[joobz]

More generally, where in the New Testament is slavery referred to as anything other than a societal norm? "Do unto others ..." can easily mean "respect your betters as you expect your inferiors to respect you". Nothing revolutionary in that.

As FZ and I were discussing a bit ago, even if jesus was against slavery, it is highly unlikely he would go so far out of his way to condemn it, since such criticisms of Roman rule would result in rapid squashing of his teaching and his life.

But then again, we were talking of the man, Jesus, and not god in the flesh guy.

 

[CapelDodger]

Blatant Appeal to Authority.

Joobz's criticism stands.

That just shouts for the haiku treatment. And you're welcome to it.

And welcome too .