Israel will allow fuel, medicine into Gaza - official

[mrbaracuda]

THIS JUST IN --- (snapped by a REUTERS cameraman at the gaza border)

See, that's what I wanted to see. Just to gaze at its glory.
I hope you or your fellow countrymen are not gonna get hit by one of those.. cows.
Weird colour for the tip though, no? Good fake though.

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

I think I need to start talking to Poland about the Korridor.

No idea what you are talking about here.

You gotta be careful at those checkpoints though, I tell ya!


Propaganda, I'm sure.

No idea what you are talking about here.

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

You mean those lands that belonged to the Arab countries but which they lost when trying to destroy Israel in '67? Well too bad. But you know what? Israel is willing to give them back. But asking for a peaceful neighbouring country at its borders and not a fanatic Islamic anti-Israeli country which will fire rockets at us every day is not crazy as you make it appear. Try for yourself living under heavy rockt fire on a daily basis and I'm sure your view of the situation will immediately change.

You know lived through the 'troubles' in Northern Ireland. I never once wanted to do to innocent people what the Israeli government and you apparently want to do to innocent people namely - steal their land in contravention of international law. Why do you despise the law so much?

From one of your links:

Sounds just like what's happening in the southern cities of Israel because of Hammas' actions.

Did you bother and read this part also from your links?

I read my links - did you?

Abbas does not have control over Gaza. He is NOT the leader. Hamas is. Hamas is a terrorist organization. Why should Israel let a terrorist organization create a country which will have the same borders with it?

Has Israel declared war on Gaza? Israel is collectively punishing all the people of Gaza. THat is illegal under international law and amounts to a war crime. Why do you appear to hate the law so deeply. Why is it OK for Israel to flout international law?

Stop being populist.

You know what - you can't demand anything of me. Isn't that a shame? I have total contempt for those who have total contempt for international law as you seem to.

Israel's army is one of the most humanitarian armies in the world. Cases like that are very uncommon and if they happened once I'm more than sure there was a very good security reason that it happened (probably a suicide bomber was on its way and everybody was to be checked and double checked at the checkpoint).

If Israel's army is so humanitarian why do your generals run away from the UK. It seems that they are so proud of their behaviour that they dare not set foot on UK soil. I spent my early years going through checkpoints in Northern Ireland and the people in Northern Ireland were not treated like animals as they are in Israel.

I'm not going to dwelve into all that you've said and give you 10 examples of Palestinian bombers and killers for each sentence you've said above but that can easily be done.

Butyou decline to provide to provide evidence. Why am I not surprised.

I'm sure it's very easy living in a nice peaceful country and looking halfway across the world at a situation and saying:
1. You are occupying terrirtories (they were lost by the Arab countries while trying to destroy Israel).
2. You have checkpoints which make Palestinian lives very difficult and even in seldom occasions someone dies at a checkpoint because of a medical problem (Checkpoints are there because Palestinian suicide bombers have been exploding themselves, along with many kilos of nails, bullets and other sharp metals, in Israeli cities killing hundreds of civilians).
3. Israel is preventing Palestinian students from attending their courses outside Palestine. (I don't know of a country named Palestine so excuse me there).
4. Israel should give up the occupied territories and because it doesn't rockets are being fired so that's o.k. (Israel gave up huge parts of the occupied territories detroying Israeli civilians' homes in the process and almost tearing the entire Israeli society in half just to have the Palestinian terrorist leaders like the Hamas fire rockets back at Israel from those same grounds which were just handed back to them).

And so on and so on.....

And your point is what. That it is legal for Israel to behave illegally? That Israel alone can stand above the law when it wants. That terrorising the Palestinians is OK?

 

[webfusion]

meanwhile, back at the ranch

I hope you or your fellow countrymen are not gonna get hit by one of those.. cows.

Hey, it was irresistible to do a quick "Webbywood" version --- after all, with T-F in here making such a big deal, asking for evidence of HAMAS smuggling operations, it seemed like a natural.


Here is a bit of news that kinda touches upon the whole issue of armaments being smuggled-in and stockpiled in gaza by the various terror groups:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/948913.html
Lt. Gen. William M. Fraser III, a U.S. air force general, has been assigned to help the two sides overcome disputes created by noncompliance with the road map peace plan, which is the foundation of newly relaunched peace talks. He will investigate and compile a comprehensive report about the extent to which Palestinian militants continue to attack or plan attacks against Israel from both the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.

Here's my question:
Will this General Fraser be so bold as to actually go to gaza and show the world what is really happening with those trucks and cranes bringing over crates of "motorcycles" at Rafah?
I doubt it...


CLICK FOR PHOTO ---->http://www.midiasemmascara.com.br/images/articles/Karine 1.JPG
(see the "motorcycle crates" in the foreground of this archive photo)

 

[a_unique_person]

The "translation" seemed spot on to me. You're quibbling over semantics and not fooling anybody. You're not as clever as you think you are.

Israel and the nightmare of occupation

I believed that if Israel remained in permanent occupation of the West Bank and Gaza it would eventually be forced to decide whether or not to grant these Palestinians basic political rights. Enfranchising the Palestinians would, on demographic grounds, destroy the Jewish nature of the Israeli state. It would, therefore, not occur. The logic of permanent occupation was permanent oppression. In turn this would lead to an Algerian-style resistance movement; to the gradual poisoning of the then still relatively benign relationship between the Jewish majority and the Arab minority in Israel; and to Israel coming to be seen in the eyes of the world as a neo-colonial regime, as the moral-political equivalent of apartheid South Africa.

Was there anything good to say about South Africa and apartheid? The colonial occupation of Algeria by France? That's the trap you set for yourself when get in these situations.

 

[FireGarden]

Show of hands, who here thought the photo was NOT an obvious spoof of the cow-lifting shot?
Anybody.... Hmmmmmmm....

If only you'd waited for me before revealing the truth.
I can accept that Hamas will use this to try and bring in weapons. But that they would do so to the extent of using cranes to lift unpackaged rockets; and that the media would stay silent... No you took it too far.

You should have limited yourself to a crate with ACME printed on it -- Wiley Coyote style.

 

[The Fool]

Then, I went one step further and made an obviously-faked picture as a "joke" for you, T-F, demanding "sources" and "proof" of HAMAS smuggling in more arms! For years, HAMAS has been bringing in large quantities of weaponry, in tunnels across this area at Rafah. Would you expect us to now DOUBT that with the wall down, they aren't bringing in yet more and taking full advantage of the breach to bolster their armaments? Please, do us all a huge favor, and don't insult our intelligence, The Fool.

Argument from incredulity...its a falacy web...also moving the goalposts....you have gone reeeeely quiet about cranes which was your specific claim to general smuggling by all sources. Sorry I asked for evidence for your crane claim. Do you want me to promise never to require evidence again?

 

[webfusion]

T-F apologizes:

Sorry I asked for evidence for your crane claim.

That's all right, T-F, you're forgiven.
By the way, usually one asks for evidence about something which is NOT normally believable or reasonable. In this case, I told you my source, and you rejected it because it wasn't published on the web. Tough luck for you, sonny. You'll just have to keep imagining that no weapons were being lifted across the breach. Seems like a pretty thin supposition to hang your hat on, but you're sure entitled to remain 'skeptical' even of things which are plain as the nose on your face.

 

[The Fool]

T-F apologizes:

That's all right, T-F, you're forgiven.
By the way, usually one asks for evidence about something which is NOT normally believable or reasonable. In this case, I told you my source, and you rejected it because it wasn't published on the web. Tough luck for you, sonny. You'll just have to keep imagining that no weapons were being lifted across the breach. Seems like a pretty thin supposition to hang your hat on, but you're sure entitled to remain 'skeptical' even of things which are plain as the nose on your face.

Getting upset because secret un-named sources are not accepted on a skeptic site...whatever. Now you are putting scare quotes around "skeptical" as it seems that only true skeptics accept secret un-named sources.

 

[yairhol]

Why do you appear to hate the law so deeply. Why is it OK for Israel to flout international law?

I have total contempt for those who have total contempt for international law as you seem to.

If Israel's army is so humanitarian why do your generals run away from the UK. It seems that they are so proud of their behaviour that they dare not set foot on UK soil. I spent my early years going through checkpoints in Northern Ireland and the people in Northern Ireland were not treated like animals as they are in Israel.

Aren't you keeping up with this thread? Israel is an evil and inhumanitarian country breaking every international law known to man and making a living hell for the poor Palestinians who are just trying to live their lives peacefully with its neighboring countries.
Please, we've been through this before in several threads already. Come up with something original will ya?

Thanks in advance,
signed: one of the 7 million evil people.

That Israel alone can stand above the law when it wants. That terrorising the Palestinians is OK?

This was bound to come up sooner or later. It is WE (Israel) who are the terrorists. Of course.

You see The Fool, wasn't I correct all alone about this point?

 

[The Fool]

Aren't you keeping up with this thread? Israel is an evil and inhumanitarian country breaking every international law known to man and making a living hell for the poor Palestinians who are just trying to live their lives peacefully with its neighboring countries.
Please, we've been through this before in several threads already. Come up with something original will ya?

Thanks in advance,
signed: one of the 7 million evil people.



This was bound to come up sooner or later. It is WE (Israel) who are the terrorists. Of course.

You see The Fool, wasn't I correct all alone about this point?

Unfortunately Yairhol you seem to have abandoned the topic and any form of discussion in favor of silly straw men and ad-homs. Maybe you are not used to being challanged?

 

[WildCat]

Israel and the nightmare of occupation





Was there anything good to say about South Africa and apartheid? The colonial occupation of Algeria by France? That's the trap you set for yourself when get in these situations.

I have no idea why you think this is a response to my post... and I suppose if Israel had just laid down and allowed itself to be invaded they wouldn't "get in these situations", as you call it.

The countries that owned Gaza and the West Bank don't want them back, and Israel sure as hell doesn't want them. In fact, it seems no one wants those loveable Palestinians. Maybe they could all go to Australia?

And btw, can you or the Fool name a single Palestinain political entity that is willing to recognize Israel and has the power enforce a peace deal? Of course you can't, because no such entity exists. Therefore they will continue to live in squalor in the death cult society they have built for themselves. And they have no one but themselves to blame, no matter how much their useful idiots around the globe try to blame Israel for their plight.

 

[webfusion]

Getting upset because secret un-named sources are not accepted on a skeptic site...whatever. Now you are putting scare quotes around "skeptical" as it seems that only true skeptics accept secret un-named sources.

The US State Department, the Israeli Defense Ministry, the US Special Envoy Lt. Gen. William M. Fraser III, along with high-ranking officers of the IAF are all aware of the smuggling operations involving trucks, cranes and crates of munitions at Rafah, Gaza over the last few days.

The only one here who seems to doubt that HAMAS is smuggling weapons across the breached barrier, is you, dude.

Why is that?

 

[The Fool]

I have no idea why you think this is a response to my post... and I suppose if Israel had just laid down and allowed itself to be invaded they wouldn't "get in these situations", as you call it.

False dichotomy falacy....the implication that the only two alternatives were retaining of occupied land gained through the war or being invaded.

The countries that owned Gaza and the West Bank don't want them back, and Israel sure as hell doesn't want them.

Israel doesn't want them?....so they will be leaving them to thier own devices starting tomorrow now that you have proclaimed this? Yairhol says that Israel wants them (as a buffer)

In fact, it seems no one wants those loveable Palestinians. Maybe they could all go to Australia?

sorry, we hate them too.

And btw, can you or the Fool name a single Palestinain political entity that is willing to recognize Israel..

The P.A.recognises israel...but I'm not sure what the current position of that rapidly moving goalpost is at the moment... Do they have to recognise Israel and agree to other stuff too? Like no right of return or whatever borders Israel chooses to impose at some unspecified time in the future. This is the usual sort of stuff that is tacked onto the back of "recognise Israel"

and has the power enforce a peace deal?

Depends if we allow help or hinder them in doing it....we could restrict thier power and make it impossible, or we could support them... Its still pretty difficuly, the IDF never could get it done. I imagine the violence will continue for some time.

 

[webfusion]

I imagine the violence will continue for some time.

Ya think so?

 

[The Fool]

The US State Department, the Israeli Defense Ministry, the US Special Envoy Lt. Gen. William M. Fraser III, along with high-ranking officers of the IAF are all aware of the smuggling operations involving trucks, cranes and crates of munitions at Rafah, Gaza over the last few days.

The only one here who seems to doubt that HAMAS is smuggling weapons across the breached barrier, is you, dude.

Why is that?

you really should get over this web....you are starting to look silly.

When did these guys tell you that crates of rockets were being lifted in by cranes web? When did they tell you? I can see that you are desperately trying to water your claim down to general weapons smuggling and trying your best to pin some opinion on me that smuggling doesn't happen.

Come on web, let it drop. You shot your mouth off and were called on it. You presented something as a fact and when asked to support it the best you could manage was to say someone told you.....You now are reduced to listing people and saying they know its true too.....OK, when did they tell you this?anyway....please indulge yourself with another repeat of the claim if you like because I am done with asking for evidence when it doesn't seem to be something you think is needed.

 

[The Fool]

Ya think so?

yes...Hatreds built up over long periods don't vanish at the stroke of a pen. Even after the necessary things are put in place to head in the right direction violence will most probably continue for some time.

 

[WildCat]

False dichotomy falacy....the implication that the only two alternatives were retaining of occupied land gained through the war or being invaded.

Perhaps you missed the part where Egypt and Jordan don't want anything to do with the Palestinians? And they sure don't seem capable of governing themselves...

Israel doesn't want them?....so they will be leaving them to thier own devices starting tomorrow now that you have proclaimed this? Yairhol says that Israel wants them (as a buffer)

It is certainly useful as a buffer, since the Arab states all around them save for Egypt refuse to this day to recognize Israel. Gaza is useful as neither, but the people living there prefer to choose terrorists as their leaders and think it's a sport to launch explosives at civilian targets. So every now and then Israel has to give them the attention they so crave.

sorry, we hate them too.

Pity, there's so much vacant land in Australia after you came so close to solving your Aboriginal problem.

The P.A.recognises israel...but I'm not sure what the current position of that rapidly moving goalpost is at the moment... Do they have to recognise Israel and agree to other stuff too? Like no right of return or whatever borders Israel chooses to impose at some unspecified time in the future. This is the usual sort of stuff that is tacked onto the back of "recognise Israel"

Oh that's right, Israel has to become Palestine before they can be recognized. I can't believe they won't agree to that, seeing as what reasonable people they are!

Depends if we allow help or hinder them in doing it....we could restrict thier power and make it impossible, or we could support them... Its still pretty difficuly, the IDF never could get it done. I imagine the violence will continue for some time.

I guess this dodge is a "no".

 

[WildCat]

When did these guys tell you that crates of rockets were being lifted in by cranes web? When did they tell you? I can see that you are desperately trying to water your claim down to general weapons smuggling and trying your best to pin some opinion on me that smuggling doesn't happen.

No, Hamas couldn't possibly have used that opprtunity to smuggle weapons. Hamas would never smuggle weapons! They make their own right there, using parts they manufacture themselves, right?

 

[The Fool]

Perhaps you missed the part where Egypt and Jordan don't want anything to do with the Palestinians? And they sure don't seem capable of governing themselves...

can't see the relevance. So you are sticking to the dichotomy are you? Israel stays as occupiers or Israel is invaded.....take your pick?

It is certainly useful as a buffer, since the Arab states all around them save for Egypt refuse to this day to recognize Israel. Gaza is useful as neither, but the people living there prefer to choose terrorists as their leaders and think it's a sport to launch explosives at civilian targets. So every now and then Israel has to give them the attention they so crave.

good boy, I mentioned yairhol disagreed with you so you changed your mind immediately and suddeny discovered a use for the place.... You still need to change your ming on Gaza as Yairhol says that the gaza is a buffer against a palestinian state.

Pity, there's so much vacant land in Australia after you came so close to solving your Aboriginal problem.

oh yes, the Aboriginal diversion. You guys have not used this one in a ME thread for a while..It was a favorite of Zenith-Nadir.

Oh that's right, Israel has to become Palestine before they can be recognized. I can't believe they won't agree to that, seeing as what reasonable people they are!

sorry, can't figure this one out... When you figure out what you want recognised get back to us..

I guess this dodge is a "no".

hmmmmm, its a definite solid maybe. Unlike you I apparently can't predict the outcome of future conflicts with absolute precision.