Bigfoot - The Patterson-Gimlin Film

[William Parcher]

Extremities, such as fingertips, are more determinable, as are bends like the deep knee bend to find the knee joint. That's why I chose those points for my analysis.

Fingers? Fingertips? I hope Munns is happy when his LMS DVD arrives. Nothing but mittens. Will he continue to talk about fingers when he eventually sees the Patty mittens?

 

[Geno]

Bob Heironimus claims Patterson borrowed his horse "Peanut" for the filming. Patterson later brought his horse back and took the suit from Bob according to Greg Long. Perhaps someone could post the picture of Bob H with the other cowboys to the film to see if the horse matches that which Patterson is riding.

 

[AtomicMysteryMonster]

I'm going to skip the first two photos since I think the others already covered everything I could've said about them.

This old-timer is wearing football shoulder pads under that costume...

In my opinion, those shoulders aren't nearly large enough to warrant bringing shoulder pads into the equation.

And finally, I think we found saggy diaper-butt the 2nd!

I disagree. Patty's butt lacks the bulges (especially the pink protuberance) that the ape has.

I'd love someone to prove to me that the tech *was* indeed available in the 60's

What exactly do you mean by "tech?" Suits with muscles? Moving muscles?

I listened to the show again. Philip Morris did the Patty recreation for National Geographic. He said that they called him 2-1/2 weeks before Halloween to ask for a recreated Patty suit. This is their busiest time of the year because they are a major manufacturer of Halloween costumes. It was the worst possible time to ask for a special commission piece.

Thanks for listening to that podcast again for me. The explanation Morris gave does make a lot of sense and rings true, but I'd personally feel better about it if he (or National Geographic) provided some documentation. I definitely agree with your Corvette comment. Also, didn't John Green have Jim McClarin wear a gorilla suit for a "recreation attempt?"

On a final note, I noticed something interesting while watching a 1954 movie called "Gorilla At Large." At a few points in the film where a line running down the suit creates the impression of a hairy butt crack...not unlike like Patty's. I should also note that this line only appears when the actor inside the suit is in certain positions; the line isn't visible for the majority of the film.

 

[AtomicMysteryMonster]

Correa:

Your ape costume comparison picture reminds me of an image used in this article. Personally, I think Miller's picture helps the Patty is a suit argument more than it hurts it.

 

[manofthesea]

Lemurs and Labcoats

Hi guys. I posted a 'guide' at BFF that (kinda) details the steps necessary to prove the existence of sasquatch. Through DNA analysis.

Trying to take this out of the garage and into the lab. Any criticisms are welcomed.

It's here: BFF; In the field (forum); O.K., I'm going camping, Now what? (topic); post 50 (attachment)

(Roll 12-18 bonus 100- slay Lake Monster, advance to Laboratory Setting)

 

[sgoodman72]

Here are some more pictures.


Notice the same wearing away and flattening of fur just above the waist where the arms rub, as witnessed on Patty. There is also a clear distinction between rump and the rest of the body as is perhaps evident on Patty as well, also those knees sure look similar to Dfoot's would-be 'knee pads':

This little fella has the same fur line around the upper legs and waist that the skeptics would point to as "waist padding" and "folds" on Patty.

Also his hair looks pretty homogeneous to me... Whoever raised the argument saying Patty's hair was too homogeneous (which I never agreed with anyway) can toss that right out the window because there are plenty of gorillas and other primates that have incredibly homogeneous hair.

 

[Ravenwood]

Lets see those pics at the same resolution as the PGF & see what can be seen. I would hazard that they would look quite different. You are familiar with the "experiment" where a actual image of patty was photoshopped into an urban setting & proponents of the PGF were told it was a copy of the suit. The proponents were sure that it was nowhere nearly realistic looking as patty, it looked too fake, you could tell it was a suit, etc... (& this was at a pro bigfoot site)

 

[William Parcher]

Bob Heironimus claims Patterson borrowed his horse "Peanut" for the filming. Patterson later brought his horse back and took the suit from Bob according to Greg Long. Perhaps someone could post the picture of Bob H with the other cowboys to the film to see if the horse matches that which Patterson is riding.

Bob Heironimus' horse is named "Chico". This is presumably the horse we see him on in the 'actors' photo and riding downhill in front of Jerry Merritt. Chico has a blaze and four socks. Bob did claim that P&G borrowed Chico to take to Bluff Creek before he arrived for the Patty filming. He says that Roger was actually on Chico when he started filming Bob in the suit. Bob said that Chico was a horse that simply would not buck or rear up at all. Roger starts filming Bob (as Patty) while on Chico and intentionally shaking the camera. Then he dismounts and continues filming while again intentionally shaking the camera. We may not see the true film start when he is in Chico's saddle, as this may have been removed.

 

[LTC8K6]

What I notice is that the hair flows around the body and limbs on the gorillas in a certain way, just like Heuvelmans said it does. Just like it does not do on Patty.

Dr. Bernard Heuvelmans. His comments are as follows:

In all furry animals the hair has a definite pattern, that is, on each area of the body the hairs are oriented in a certain direction. For instance, on a chimpanzee's arm, or even on a man's if he is hairy, they go down from the shoulder to the elbow, and up from the wrist to the elbow. This definite hair pattern can be seen even on photographs of animals from the way the light shines on their fur.

On the creature shown on Patterson's film there is nothing of the sort. As can be seen from the way the hairs shine, giving the fur a speckled appearance, they point in all directions (compare the blowups of the film with photographs of gorillas or, better, of certain bears, which have 'short, shiny, black hair', and you will see that in the latter, the shine on the fur shows that on each part of the body the hairs all point in the same direction).

The aspect of the hair of the creature in the film is exactly what should be expected from artificial fur--whether thick velvet or nylon fur--in which all threads (not actually hairs) are attached uniformly on some canvas base. When you stroke this material in different directions, the artificial hairs get bent in these directions and remain so until you brush them all carefully in the same direction.

Patterson adds--which is also seen in the film-that 'even her big, droopy breasts' are covered with short shiny black hair. This would of course be possible in some unknown species of man, but it would be rather improbable to say the least. In all larger apes the breasts have a slight tendency toward swelling, and even dropping a little, when the female is nursing its baby or if it has been nursing many of them, but even in such hairy primates the chest is almost naked.

I want to add that this (to me) obvious hoax does not shake at all my firm conviction that some large unknown human-like primate lives in the northwest of the United States and in the western provinces of Canada, not to mention of course certain mountain ranges of northeastern and central Asia."

 

[Skeptical Greg]

What LTC8K6 said .. The gorillas looks like anything but the patchwork mess we see on Patty ...

 

[SweatyYeti]

Sorry to disappoint, Greg.....but here's a patchwork gorilla.....

 

[LTC8K6]

Sorry to disappoint, Sweaty...but no it isn't.

 

[Drewbot]

Patty has nothing like the gorilla's smooth-patterned fur you keep showing.

Patty fur pattern is much closer to this.

 

[sgoodman72]

I'm sick of the "female apes and gorillas have little to no hair on their breasts" argument.

Well Duh! They live in hot, humid, tropical environments where fur isn't evolutionarily necessary.

First of all I've already shown that they do indeed have some hair, yes it is patchy and thin, and through centuries of evolution it's becoming less and less, much like on humans who live inside and don't need it for warmth.

However an ape or gorilla living in a temperate climate, where the winters can get bitterly cold even into the sub-zeros (especially in Northern areas and Canada), would have adapted to that environment over potentially thousands of years. It stands to reason that they would almost certainly have a nice thick covering of hair all over the body, breasts and all.


*As an aside, I personally think the theory for North American apes is quite plausible. I believe they crossed over when the land-bridge existed between what is now Russia and Alaska. That is why I do think something exists in the Himalayas and remote mountainous parts of North/Northeastern Asia as well, much like something exists in various parts of North America. But again, we're just discussing the PG Footage here.

 

[kitakaze]

I'm sick of the "female apes and gorillas have little to no hair on their breasts" argument.

Well Duh! They live in hot, humid, tropical environments where fur isn't evolutionarily necessary.

Here for you, sgood is a video of the world's most northern-living non-human primate breastfeeding here in Japan:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gHRp0uAjP0

What do you observe in comparison with the PGF subject?

First of all I've already shown that they do indeed have some hair, yes it is patchy and thin, and through centuries of evolution it's becoming less and less, much like on humans who live inside and don't need it for warmth.

Thunderdome, remember? You're not supposed to make unsubstantiated comments as fact, off the cuff.

*As an aside, I personally think the theory for North American apes is quite plausible. I believe they crossed over when the land-bridge existed between what is now Russia and Alaska. That is why I do think something exists in the Himalayas and remote mountainous parts of North/Northeastern Asia as well, much like something exists in various parts of North America. But again, we're just discussing the PG Footage here.

This is just my personal opinion but I would say go ahead and discuss bigfoot's existence in this thread. Is that not what a very important part of discussing the PGF is about?

Let me get this straight- Bigfoots in North America and the Himalayas are OK and in Australia, Britain, Malaysia they are...?

 

[William Parcher]

First of all I've already shown that they do indeed have some hair, yes it is patchy and thin, and through centuries of evolution it's becoming less and less, much like on humans who live inside and don't need it for warmth.

Thunderdome, remember? You're not supposed to make unsubstantiated comments as fact, off the cuff.

Nor are you supposed to bait hungry creationists with talk of 'centuries of evolution'. There is some Creationist presence within Bigfootery.

This is Thunderdome, and death is listening, and will take the first man that screams.

 

[Drewbot]

Does anyone have stills or footage showing the BBC recreation of the 'long shot' which recreated the PGF? I'm not talking about the close up shot of the orange bloke, I'm talking about the long shot of the subject walking through the scrub.

 

[LTC8K6]

However an ape or gorilla living in a temperate climate, where the winters can get bitterly cold even into the sub-zeros

Why doesn't foot just migrate back and forth with the seasons? Many other animals have figured this out. What good is this nifty bipedalism if you aren't going to travel?
If you travel, why stay where it's bitterly cold?

 

[Aepervius]

Why doesn't foot just migrate back and forth with the seasons? Many other animals have figured this out. What good is this nifty bipedalism if you aren't going to travel?
If you travel, why stay where it's bitterly cold?

Not a good argument. On the same token you would ask why the polar bear/otter stays where it is bitterly cold (well... apparently before they soon drown....). One could then answer "see ! I told you she's got hair on the nipple to protect against the bitter cold ! Evolution at work !". Just saying....

 

[LTC8K6]

I would ask no such questions, actually.

A polar bear is not an intelligent bipedal primate capable of avoiding detection by humans at a nearly perfect rate.

Bigfoot is seen in all climates at all times of the year. The big hairy girl is apparently just as hairy in Miami as in Anchorage.