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New Age religions don't make you happy

... Picture a grande starbucks caramel latte in your mind, hold the image there as clearly as you can for as long as you can while maintaining as powerful an experience of joy and excitement as you can over your tasty beverage. Tell no one about your vision of this latte, and wait to see how long before one falls into your lap... doubt.

How long does it take to just get one on the table and not in my lap?:)
Could we have an example of something you have materialized and had others verify? Or is this just sort of in your mind?
 
Anecdote:
In my experience with witchy types, I've noticed they seem happier than "mundanes." I'm not sure what my definition of happier is, so this is a very foggy anecdote, but it was strong enough for me to notice. Of course they're still broke despite the money spells and single despite the love spells, but they seem to have fun anyway!

Maybe it's just that some styles of magick include dressing in neato costumes and dancing around. Spiritual fulfillment and playing around all in one. :)
 
That's just it - many of them seem happy or at least confident and in control of their lives, but scratch the surface and they're often at least as messed up as everybody else. There also tends to be a bit of "my pentagram's bigger than your pentagram" one-upmanship going on.
 
The latter is what usually gets published in the local book store, while the "real stuff" is very difficult to understand.

So by putting " real stuff" in quotation marks are you implying that you don't think it really is the real stuff? :confused:
 
Hello All!

I am a current new-ager / woo-believer / or, as I prefer to call myself, a shaman-Taoist who studies Theosophy.


yeah.... I think you should stick to new ager or woo believer. It sounds less stupid. :D
 
I was too young to go about it that sytematically, and a book on Buddhism happened upon me at that moment - in what we new-agers call a "synchronicity" or meaningful coincidence.

No idea what books on Buddhism you've been reading but they don't seem to be anything like the one's I've read. Try these two:

http://www.amazon.com/Sit-Down-Shut-Up-Commentaries/dp/1577315596

http://www.amazon.com/Hardcore-Zen-Monster-Movies-Reality/dp/086171380X

No woo woo. Just the truth.
 
Hmmm...we do have a Starbucks now in Bulgaria, so it is remotely possible that one of its beverages might fall into my lap, esp. if a colleague drops it on me in a hurry to get to their work desk.

Does it count if someone drops a Costa-brand latte on my lap?

Does it count if it drops on my head?

Does it count if my copy of Moby Dick falls open on a page that mentions Starbuck more than three times?
 
I apologize for this response, because it is out of place in this thread.

That's okay. I'm the one who started the derail. I posted in desperation, since it is typically New-Agers of various stripe (I considered myself one, once) who strive for magic powers, magickal awareness, or some other ability/understanding.

However, since this site is giving away a million dollars to someone who can reliably do just what you are asking for, I'll give you a few tips on how you can experience a legitimate act of magick.

I've been down the road of self-experience with magick. I even convinced myself that I had achieve an effect, but I've learned better...

First of all, to manifest something into reality you need to picture it clearly in your mind (if you can not picture something clearly and vividly, you can not manifest it);

This is true in legitimate design, as well. In order to design a brand-new device somebody has to have the vision of what it can be, before it is built. This has happened to me only a couple of times in my life so far, but it is very powerful, and in both cases, I am very proud of the results although I've since become distant from both projects.

you need to think of it often; and while thinking about it you need to feel excited. There's a lot more to it than this, but that's the simple method.

I sincerely wish you could critically re-read what you're writing, from a dispassionate perspective. This sounds an awful lot like wishful thinking, as in, "If I really really want it and am excited by it..."

Picture a grande starbucks caramel latte in your mind, hold the image there as clearly as you can ... chance to actually work = 2 weeks.

Forget coffee. I predict that one of my coworkers will buy me lunch in the next couple of weeks. No magick... it's the power of good working relationships.

I'm here because I like the cutting edge of the debate on the reality of the paranormal.

I like both of these things (debate and the reality of the paranormal). We have a number of things in common. In that sense, "Hail fellow, well met." :) In fact, some of what you say sounds identical to "past" me. If you're familiar with Mage: The Ascension, I'm looking for an effect that more closely resembles vulgar magick than coincidental.

Since then, I've become a convert to the methods of science and engineering. They're helping me achieve good things... real things...

:cool:
 
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Seeing the other side.

What is that?

My sight is not all that developed, but in a pitch black room I can make out what look like beings of light all around us.

Why is that not just your senses playing tricks on you?

In another use of shamanic technique, time can be transcended to experience the future, past, or an alternate time line.

What experiences have you had of the future?

What experiences have you had of the past?

What is an "alternate time line"?

I have many out of body experiences.

How did you distinguish between those and merely fantasies/hallucinations?

Most of the things I seek during these experiences are of pure personal interest to me, and offer little proof to the outsider of what I have accomplished; from my experience, though, the fact of the reality of the events has been verified completely.

Do you understand that you are now completely changing the meaning of the word "verified"?

Life is it's gift unto itself. Everything is a splinter of the Source, the origin of all things, which is experiencing the infinite possibilities through each individual, self-involved consciousness simultaneously. To put it simply, we are all God - a single thread among an infinite number of threads of God; we are all connected, we all came from the same place, and we are doing this(life) for fun. The meaning of life, therefore, is experiencing Joy.

That's the meaning of life? Fatuous New Age blabber?

"If you're not laughing, then you're not getting it." - Zen saying.

I'm close to giggling, but probably not because of why you are.
 
You want the Harry Potter version of Magick?

I like both of these things (debate and the reality of the paranormal). We have a number of things in common. In that sense, "Hail fellow, well met." :) In fact, some of what you say sounds identical to "past" me. If you're familiar with Mage: The Ascension, I'm looking for an effect that more closely resembles vulgar magick than coincidental.

Since then, I've become a convert to the methods of science and engineering. They're helping me achieve good things... real things...

:cool:

I am not in disagreeance with you all about the effects of magick being something elusive, if not impossible to prove and therefore - seemingly - nonexistent. The point I would make is: you get out of it what you put into it. Examine the works of Aleister Crowley and you'll find that he recommends years of practice with specific yoga techniques, and difficult (if not impossible) mental exercises on visualization as preparation for attempting magick. You're not strong enough to move things with your mind and through fire balls like Yoda, you've got to develop that power (which comes from Karmic energy, something that's tied up in your past with all those emotional memories you hold on to).

If you'd like to see the energy I'm talking about then I can give you instructions for that, but again - you get out what you put in. Doubt is the killer, so if you can't overcome your doubt - you can't do it. Start small with the latte, and work your way up from there. What could it hurt you all to try that simple meditation for a couple of weeks? Put your doubt aside, and try a scientific experiement. If nothing else, you'll prove to yourself that Thoth108 is a woo, becuase that's what you were thinking the whole time!

If you want specific instructions on seeing some real stuff then message me privately through the site and I'll contact you there. There's some reading involved, but I'll coach you through it and answer any questions you might have.
 
The point I would make is: you get out of it what you put into it.

As this is an 'ordinary' claim, I would be very surprised if anyone here would challenge it

However, it seems that you are also making an extra-ordinary claim WITHOUT any extra-ordinary evidence to support it

Doubt is the killer, so if you can't overcome your doubt - you can't do it

And blind faith is the mother of all woo

Would I be right in assuming that the idea of 'magick' fits in with your world view?

It seems to me that you want to believe and, like any ardent believer, you do

Consider that there are many other activities that can, with intense concentration and rigorous practice (both physically and mentally), 'elevate' the practitioner to (almost) incredible and deeply rewarding levels of achievement

E.g. long-distance running, ballet, mountaineering, the violin, etc.

The main difference is that these activities do not make extra-ordinary claims... that's why the alleged rewards are regarded as only almost incredible

You're not strong enough to move things with your mind

Are you implying that you (or someone you know) can?

If so, please do describe what (not how) things (e.g. a latte) can be moved, how far they can be moved and how you measure the movement
 
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What is that?
**WOO ALERT** this answer will get me qouted in a dozen responses for sure, but here you go: The other side is a higher dimension than ours. We are essentially 3 dimensional beings, boxed into this lower dimension. Part of us, however, exists in the higher dimensions as well - I believe the other side is 5 dimensional. There is no time there, which is strange to think of but easy to accept once you're in it - basically from that dimension you can fast forward or rewind time to wherever you want. If you have your eyes open during the experience you will see life move by like a video being rewound. With your eyes closed it looks much like a dream, except you don't see through your eyes; you see in all directions from a central point in your mind.


Why is that not just your senses playing tricks on you?
This is one of the things that true practitioners work against - fooling yourself through mental trickery. I am sure that it is not my senses playing tricks on me, and the explanation for that is complicated and long - there is no space here for it. To put it lightly, you pay very close attention to everything going on in your head, every little thought, and keep track of this in a journal of your experiences to track your progress. If you want deeper we can start a new thread, or message me privately.

What experiences have you had of the future?
Myself living on the wonderful island of Kauai, after I have won the lottery, sipping a margarita.
What experiences have you had of the past?
My own life. I do a meditation known as recapitulation in shamanic terms, where you journey into your past to retrieve karmic energy that is tied to old memories. The experience of going into that time is real, and changes can be made to the time line you are observing. I am not yet able to move beyond my own life in the past, so only things relevant to me are available here.
What is an "alternate time line"?
There isn't just one time line through reality, there are many. This topic will get complicated and is better left to another thread discussing time travel, and whether or not time is linear.


How did you distinguish between those and merely fantasies/hallucinations?
Careful observation. For one, I can see the clearly move through walls/ceilings; there are no lights or reflections in the room to explain the phenomenon. My eye sight is perfect. I'm also not a "blind believer," like you may think - I'm looking for legitimate experiences in my exploration of this.

Do you understand that you are now completely changing the meaning of the word "verified"?
I'm working on my abilities to communicate with you guys in this forum - you're sticklers for words, and I'm just a normal guy with a desk job. I didn't go to grad skool. By verified I really mean verified to me, because these experiences are personal.


That's the meaning of life? Fatuous New Age blabber?
You asked, I answered. To clarify, I was given this definition during a deep meditation while speaking with a higher consciousness. The answer surprised me as well. What did you expect the meaning of life to be?? ;)


I'm close to giggling, but probably not because of why you are.

It's all the same my brother, as long as you're having fun!:D
 
As this is an 'ordinary' claim, I would be very surprised if anyone here would challenge it

However, it seems that you are also making an extra-ordinary claim WITHOUT any extra-ordinary evidence to support it
The evidence that you're asking for, which is for me to perform magick in front of an audience of dis-believers, is not possible. The reason is because we create our reality from what is in our minds - so if YOU doubt that I can do it, and YOU are close to me while I'm trying, then I have to OVERCOME YOUR DOUBT as well as mine to acheive an effect. I'm not that strong, and it's the reason why no one of real power steps up to claim the million dollars. If you'd like to see where this principle of magick has been documented throughout the ages, in many different cultures, I can site references. Your doubt can kill my magick.


And blind faith is the mother of all woo

Agreed. Blind faith is nothing to bring to the table if your serious about pursuing the path of magick. I wouldn't be here, sticking out my neck with these conversations if I didn't know what I'm talking about. This is why I recommend that others try for themselves with the simple latte meditation I provided - if you do it, and it works, then you can test for yourself. Why take my word for it?
Would I be right in assuming that the idea of 'magick' fits in with your world view?
Barely, but yes. I know that it's possible because I've achieved effects with my attempts. I'm no Harry Potter, or Hermes Trismegistus though. Also, I'm handicapped by the projected-thoughts of those around me (I live in a crowded city, full of non-believers). Again, your doubt can kill my magick.

It seems to me that you want to believe and, like any ardent believer, you do

Consider that there are many other activities that can, with intense concentration and rigorous practice (both physically and mentally), 'elevate' the practitioner to (almost) incredible and deeply rewarding levels of achievement

E.g. long-distance running, ballet, mountaineering, the violin, etc.

The main difference is that these activities do not make extra-ordinary claims... that's why the alleged rewards are regarded as only almost incredible
These are good examples, and that effect that athletes talk about - being in the zone is an important state of mind to achieve for getting results with magick. If you could achieve that zone while you're meditating on that caramel latte, it just might fall right out of the air and into your lap.


Are you implying that you (or someone you know) can?
Move things? No. I'm not interested in that. Besides, to move something requires your manifest-time to be instant, and mine is about 2 days. I use the meditation I described all the time to bring things that I want into my life.

If so, please do describe what (not how) things (e.g. a latte) can be moved, how far they can be moved and how you measure the movement
I don't move things with my mind; I work bigger than that, so to speak. My work is with people, and their spiritual paths. What I do is help them through times of great struggle where they are learning a big lesson, and sufferring because of the effort and energy it takes to make it through. When they become lost in their mind, and think about giving up (suicide), I step in - By going to the other side and contacting this person there I can find out from their soul (that part of them that exisits 5th dimensionally) what it is they are trying to learn, and what blockages exist between them and their goal, and what can be done to help. I then visualize the ideal situation for them, and put my energy into that visualization, which will bring about the solution in the manifest-dimension, which we call the real-world.

You bring up a good point though, about moving things with your mind. That's a type of lesser magick, something that kids would be fasinated with, and it is looked down upon by true practitioners. To spend your time and energy moving something with your mind that you could have just moved with your hand is proving that you're missing the point of learning these techniques. That power will come with time, but it's one that you will use less and less as you progress because it's pointless and self-indulgent. The point of learning the techniques is to work with things bigger than that, like whole situations, life goals, and most importantly reaching beyond the five senses into a state of higher perception (perceiving other dimensions of reality). It's not about proving what you can do to others.;)
 
OK, moving away from "Epic Pwnage" to just say a simple:

This is SO much BS!
 
Zen is great. Now keep reading, you're not done yet.

No idea what books on Buddhism you've been reading but they don't seem to be anything like the one's I've read. Try these two:

No woo woo. Just the truth.

That's the point of Zen; remove the hype, talk, and nonsense and just get to the liberation. I've read Zen, and love the teachings, but it's not the only path.

To answer you, I've read a lot of Buddhism, from the direct teachings of Buddha, to Zen, and onward into the esoteric Buddhism (Stanzas of Dyzan) that I don't believe you've stumbled onto yet. If you read the Tibetan Book of the Dead you will get a glimpse into what I'm talking about. That book will explain to you what it's like to be on the other side. Buddha wasn't interested in teaching us how to work with magick, he wanted us to have a direct path to liberation. That's an important distinction that you should consider. Liberation is the quick path out of the cycle of life and rebirth; the path of magick is there is you'd like to linger here for awhile and master the natural laws that govern this material world that the awakened ones transcend. Which path is for you?

If you'd really like to engage in a conversation about Buddhism, bring your guns because this is my territory.:D

Have you come close to enlightenment my friend, or are these just books of clever sayings to you?
 
The evidence that you're asking for, which is for me to perform magick in front of an audience of dis-believers, is not possible.

Not quite. I am asking you to describe what you can do

So far, it seems to me that you have no special powers whatsoever

The reason is because we create our reality from what is in our minds

I won't argue with that

so if YOU doubt that I can do it, and YOU are close to me while I'm trying, then I have to OVERCOME YOUR DOUBT as well as mine to acheive an effect.

In all sincerity, I ask why are you HERE, on a sceptics forum?

I suggest that, if you think sceptics will believe you based solely on the words you type, you ought to think again

it's the reason why no one of real power steps up to claim the million dollars.

See above

If you'd like to see where this principle of magick has been documented throughout the ages, in many different cultures, I can site references.

Please do - as long as they are credible (i.e. not woo promoting woo)

Your doubt can kill my magick.

Please, don't jump the gun...
After you have provided evidence of magick, feel free to focus on its short-comings, bugs, etc

I wouldn't be here, sticking out my neck with these conversations if I didn't know what I'm talking about.

Trouble is, you're not actually saying anything worthwhile, it's all just vague assertions

Why take my word for it?

Trust me, I won't ;)

being in the zone is an important state of mind

Indeed. But important for what? Manifesting magick, or just tricking yourself into believing in magick?

to achieve for getting results with magick

I'm being sincere here. Seriously, ask yourself how you KNOW that the 'results' prove, conclusively, that your woo is true

If you could achieve that zone while you're meditating on that caramel latte, it just might fall right out of the air and into your lap.

If

Might

Please, provide some evidence of things that WILL happen

I use the meditation I described all the time to bring things that I want into my life.

Hang on... you might credit meditation with bringing things that you want into your life

Without any evidence, your claim is not substantiated

What I do is help them through times of great struggle

If so, then that is good :)

By going to the other side and contacting this person there I can find out from their soul (that part of them that exisits 5th dimensionally) what it is they are trying to learn, and what blockages exist between them and their goal, and what can be done to help.

Remember, this is a sceptics forum

Extra-ordinary claims require extra-ordinary evidence

Please, stop making vague claims

You bring up a good point though, about moving things with your mind. That's a type of lesser magick, something that kids would be fasinated with, and it is looked down upon by true practitioners.

It'd be a near bullet-proof way of 'enlightening' me and countless others

The point of learning the techniques is to work with things bigger than that, like whole situations, life goals, and most importantly reaching beyond the five senses into a state of higher perception (perceiving other dimensions of reality).

Or maybe... 'the point of learning the techniques is to deal with things bigger than that, like whole situations... etc.'

It's not about proving what you can do to others.;)

Umm... yes, it is - at least on a sceptics forum
 
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I am not in disagreeance with you all about the effects of magick being something elusive, if not impossible to prove and therefore - seemingly - nonexistent. The point I would make is: you get out of it what you put into it. Examine the works of Aleister Crowley and you'll find that he recommends years of practice with specific yoga techniques, and difficult (if not impossible) mental exercises on visualization as preparation for attempting magick. You're not strong enough to move things with your mind and through fire balls like Yoda, you've got to develop that power (which comes from Karmic energy, something that's tied up in your past with all those emotional memories you hold on to).

If you'd like to see the energy I'm talking about then I can give you instructions for that, but again - you get out what you put in. Doubt is the killer, so if you can't overcome your doubt - you can't do it. Start small with the latte, and work your way up from there. What could it hurt you all to try that simple meditation for a couple of weeks? Put your doubt aside, and try a scientific experiement. If nothing else, you'll prove to yourself that Thoth108 is a woo, becuase that's what you were thinking the whole time!

Well, aren't you? What in all what you have claimed so far isn't woo?

If you want specific instructions on seeing some real stuff then message me privately through the site and I'll contact you there. There's some reading involved, but I'll coach you through it and answer any questions you might have.

Why does it have to be private? Why can't you just present it here, so that more people can benefit from this enlightenment?

**WOO ALERT** this answer will get me qouted in a dozen responses for sure, but here you go: The other side is a higher dimension than ours. We are essentially 3 dimensional beings, boxed into this lower dimension. Part of us, however, exists in the higher dimensions as well - I believe the other side is 5 dimensional. There is no time there, which is strange to think of but easy to accept once you're in it - basically from that dimension you can fast forward or rewind time to wherever you want.

Do you understand that you just contradicted yourself there? If you can fast forward or rewind time to wherever you want, then time does exist.

If you have your eyes open during the experience you will see life move by like a video being rewound. With your eyes closed it looks much like a dream, except you don't see through your eyes; you see in all directions from a central point in your mind.

Does this mean you can see inside a box?

This is one of the things that true practitioners work against - fooling yourself through mental trickery. I am sure that it is not my senses playing tricks on me, and the explanation for that is complicated and long - there is no space here for it.

Why on Earth not? How much will it take? Are you having problems expressing yourself?

To put it lightly, you pay very close attention to everything going on in your head, every little thought, and keep track of this in a journal of your experiences to track your progress. If you want deeper we can start a new thread, or message me privately.

No, let's keep things out in the open. I am not looking to be your secret student, I am looking for your evidence.

Why are your senses not playing tricks on you?

Myself living on the wonderful island of Kauai, after I have won the lottery, sipping a margarita.

And this happened?

My own life. I do a meditation known as recapitulation in shamanic terms, where you journey into your past to retrieve karmic energy that is tied to old memories. The experience of going into that time is real, and changes can be made to the time line you are observing. I am not yet able to move beyond my own life in the past, so only things relevant to me are available here.

You think that having experiences of your own past is evidence of these supernatural powers? Are you kidding??

There isn't just one time line through reality, there are many. This topic will get complicated and is better left to another thread discussing time travel, and whether or not time is linear.

No, let's hear it now.

Careful observation. For one, I can see the clearly move through walls/ceilings; there are no lights or reflections in the room to explain the phenomenon. My eye sight is perfect. I'm also not a "blind believer," like you may think - I'm looking for legitimate experiences in my exploration of this.

But human perception can easily be fooled, even though you think you are a careful observer.

Take a look at this illusion. Can you, merely by observation, determine if A and B are different shades of grey, or if they are the same?

I'm working on my abilities to communicate with you guys in this forum - you're sticklers for words, and I'm just a normal guy with a desk job. I didn't go to grad skool. By verified I really mean verified to me, because these experiences are personal.

No, we are not sticklers for words. We are sticklers for evidence.

You have to understand that personal experiences weigh very little on a forum for skepticism and critical thinking.

You asked, I answered. To clarify, I was given this definition during a deep meditation while speaking with a higher consciousness. The answer surprised me as well. What did you expect the meaning of life to be?? ;)

Something a little more spectacular, maybe. I sure didn't expect it to be somethink akin to what I read on the back of cereal boxes.

It's all the same my brother, as long as you're having fun!:D

If this is just a joke, come out and say it now, and stop wasting people's time.

The evidence that you're asking for, which is for me to perform magick in front of an audience of dis-believers, is not possible. The reason is because we create our reality from what is in our minds - so if YOU doubt that I can do it, and YOU are close to me while I'm trying, then I have to OVERCOME YOUR DOUBT as well as mine to acheive an effect. I'm not that strong, and it's the reason why no one of real power steps up to claim the million dollars. If you'd like to see where this principle of magick has been documented throughout the ages, in many different cultures, I can site references. Your doubt can kill my magick.

"It only works if I'm alone. If there's a skeptic in the room, the effect disappears".

Would you accept this excuse of yours from someone who claimed to be able to conjure spaceships?

Agreed. Blind faith is nothing to bring to the table if your serious about pursuing the path of magick. I wouldn't be here, sticking out my neck with these conversations if I didn't know what I'm talking about. This is why I recommend that others try for themselves with the simple latte meditation I provided - if you do it, and it works, then you can test for yourself. Why take my word for it?

But that's exactly what you are demanding that we do.

Barely, but yes. I know that it's possible because I've achieved effects with my attempts. I'm no Harry Potter, or Hermes Trismegistus though. Also, I'm handicapped by the projected-thoughts of those around me (I live in a crowded city, full of non-believers). Again, your doubt can kill my magick.

What is the difference between that, and "They are sending beams through my ceiling to kill my thoughts"?

These are good examples, and that effect that athletes talk about - being in the zone is an important state of mind to achieve for getting results with magick. If you could achieve that zone while you're meditating on that caramel latte, it just might fall right out of the air and into your lap.

Yes, that's what skeptics call the Clustering Illusion.

Move things? No. I'm not interested in that.

Why not? That would be precisely the evidence you need, in order to convince other people.

Besides, to move something requires your manifest-time to be instant, and mine is about 2 days. I use the meditation I described all the time to bring things that I want into my life.

Who has an instant "manifest-time"?

I don't move things with my mind; I work bigger than that, so to speak. My work is with people, and their spiritual paths. What I do is help them through times of great struggle where they are learning a big lesson, and sufferring because of the effort and energy it takes to make it through. When they become lost in their mind, and think about giving up (suicide), I step in - By going to the other side and contacting this person there I can find out from their soul (that part of them that exisits 5th dimensionally) what it is they are trying to learn, and what blockages exist between them and their goal, and what can be done to help. I then visualize the ideal situation for them, and put my energy into that visualization, which will bring about the solution in the manifest-dimension, which we call the real-world.

Before you went on to these bigger things, did you try moving things with your mind?

You bring up a good point though, about moving things with your mind. That's a type of lesser magick, something that kids would be fasinated with, and it is looked down upon by true practitioners. To spend your time and energy moving something with your mind that you could have just moved with your hand is proving that you're missing the point of learning these techniques. That power will come with time, but it's one that you will use less and less as you progress because it's pointless and self-indulgent. The point of learning the techniques is to work with things bigger than that, like whole situations, life goals, and most importantly reaching beyond the five senses into a state of higher perception (perceiving other dimensions of reality). It's not about proving what you can do to others.;)

Yes, it is. Because that's what you are trying to do here, e.g. when you invite people in for private lessons.

Have you come close to enlightenment my friend, or are these just books of clever sayings to you?

How do we know that you are closer to enligthenment than us? That these books are just books of clever sayings to you?

Should we trust your word?
 
Thoth108:

I've been trying to follow but must have missed it - what is it exactly you claim you can do?
 
That's the point of Zen; remove the hype, talk, and nonsense and just get to the liberation. I've read Zen, and love the teachings, but it's not the only path.

To answer you, I've read a lot of Buddhism, from the direct teachings of Buddha, to Zen, and onward into the esoteric Buddhism (Stanzas of Dyzan) that I don't believe you've stumbled onto yet. If you read the Tibetan Book of the Dead you will get a glimpse into what I'm talking about. That book will explain to you what it's like to be on the other side. Buddha wasn't interested in teaching us how to work with magick, he wanted us to have a direct path to liberation. That's an important distinction that you should consider. Liberation is the quick path out of the cycle of life and rebirth; the path of magick is there is you'd like to linger here for awhile and master the natural laws that govern this material world that the awakened ones transcend. Which path is for you?

If you'd really like to engage in a conversation about Buddhism, bring your guns because this is my territory.:D

Have you come close to enlightenment my friend, or are these just books of clever sayings to you?

Yawn. :rolleyes: You remind me of me when I was 16.

Try reading the two books I mentioned. If they don't change your woo woo ideas of what Buddhism's about then nothing will.

Incidentally, your claim that doubt kills magic is in itself a testable paranormal claim. If you can detect the presence of doubters then you can win the million. Something tells me you won't apply thought. Why ever could that be?
 
I am not in disagreeance with you all about the effects of magick being something elusive, if not impossible to prove and therefore - seemingly - nonexistent.

Thanks for replying. I'm going to start by asking a slightly antagonistic question (and I note that others didn't even give this preamble):

What, exactly, is the difference between something that is "seemingly" nonexistent and something that is actually non-existent?

I hate to be a stick-in-the-mud, but proof does play a role...

The point I would make is: you get out of it what you put into it. Examine the works of Aleister Crowley and you'll find that he recommends years of practice with specific yoga techniques, and difficult (if not impossible) mental exercises on visualization as preparation for attempting magick. You're not strong enough to move things with your mind and through fire balls like Yoda, you've got to develop that power (which comes from Karmic energy, something that's tied up in your past with all those emotional memories you hold on to).

Seriously. I've read any number of books that some might consider "New-Age," and others might consider rediscovered "Old-Age." In one paragraph, you've mixed together: Crowley, yoga, visualization, Yoda, Karmic energy, emotional memories and bland generalizations about personal philosophy.

If you'd like to see the energy I'm talking about then I can give you instructions for that, but again - you get out what you put in.

Actually, my initial (and after many years, desperate) request was to see some genuine, indisputable effect, without: mention of energy, tricks, the disbelief of the audience, etc.

Doubt is the killer, so if you can't overcome your doubt - you can't do it.

No.

This is where I've since gotten frustrated with adepts. Real things occur, regardless of doubt. Doubt is overcome with proof. Sometimes proof is difficult to obtain, but once obtained, it is harder to dispute.

Start small with the latte, and work your way up from there. What could it hurt you all to try that simple meditation for a couple of weeks? Put your doubt aside, and try a scientific experiement.

My doubt did not prevent the success of such experiments. In fact, my doubt arose from just such experiments (conducted much longer than "a couple of weeks").

If nothing else, you'll prove to yourself that Thoth108 is a woo, becuase that's what you were thinking the whole time!

Actually, I'm not even interested in casting you as a 'woo.' In real life, I expect that we could derive some enjoyment by hanging out together. I'm just looking for some adept to show me a real effect (doesn't even have to be you).

If you want specific instructions on seeing some real stuff then message me privately through the site and I'll contact you there. There's some reading involved, but I'll coach you through it and answer any questions you might have.

There might be some value in going to PM, but it won't be for "specific instructions on seeing some real stuff," rather it would be for just "seeing some real stuff."

Cheers!
 
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