New Age religions don't make you happy

[quixotecoyote]

talkorgins has the evolution stuff covered...

I imagine a trip through google for pre-existing faqs may be in order.

 

[Gazpacho]

Beautiful. Just beautiful. A thread discussing the results of a survey that suggests New Age religions don't make people happier is started, and someone from a New Age religion comes along to tell us all that he has anecdotal evidence that this is wrong.

Except that isn't what he's telling us.

 

[-Fran-]

Perhaps we could compile a list of common woo claims, e.g:

-If i broke a watch into a million pieces and put it in a bag and shook, it would not form a watch.

-Atheists cause more wars, hitler and stalin were atheists.

-Something like an eye is to complex to evolve.

etc...

Have everyone who wants to participate formulate a response, and then vote on the best, which can then be adopted as the standard response.

Sometimes I think that the standard answer to all of it, should be "Grow up!" but then I feal mean

Thoth's first post above contains quite a few common claims to add to such a list. Or really, it was a virtual cornucopia of it:

But, not long ago, I, too, was an aethiest...

“I too used to be an atheist/skeptic/driven by reason, but then...” (Followed by a definition of atheist/skeptic that shows with all desired clarity they were never anything of the kind.)

I always thought it pecuilar that so many religions of the world belived in, "magic."

“If enough people believe in something, it's true!”

the depression that I couldn't find meaning, or purpose to life. I could tell that Christianity didn't have it, but science didn't fulfill my needs either.

“Only woo can bring meaning and happiness to life, science is cold and depressive.”

Aetheism, to me, is proclaiming that you have achieved the knowledge, or perspective to see beyond your current limitations

Whacky ideas about what atheism is.

- science can only speculate on what it does not know, it cannot prove God to exist or not exist.

Any limits in science means god/the paranormal/any woo exist.

There are probably an infinite number of other galaxies in the universe, and we have not yet traveled beyond our own solar system

“This awes me, so woo exists.”

- and yet our scientists presume themselves to have the capabilities to measure / see God.

Whacky ideas of what science is or claims.

The literature available on new-age religions out there is mostly limited to paper back books on crystal scrying, astrology-for-lovers, and other such drabble. The real literature is hard to find, and even harder to understand, but once assimilated it weaves together the apparently disparate religions of the world into a concise and logical progression of human consciouness through the ages.

“Of course I don't believe in the magazine variety of astrology/fundamental Christianity/any lower kind of woo. I have knowledge of the real "science" variety of astrology/the real Christianity/the TRUE woo. AND it was hard to find/difficult to understand.”

Even the "aethiest" movement is a religion, to me,

“Atheism is a religion, even though the word means the opposite... because I say so.”

and reflects the age of reason in which we currently reside, where science is seen as superior to religion -

“We are oppressed!”

In the new-age teachings of shamanism I found happiness, because I was shown how to upgrade my abilities of perception - and peek beyond the boundaries of our current perceptual limitations. I no longer "wondered" about the "supernatural," and why so many religions propose the existence of magic - I could see it for myself.

“Subjective experiences and perception always equals reality. If I get a weird vision it’s not because I haven’t ate and slept in a week and been pounding on a drum for 24 hours straight, it's because an angel/spirit guide/talking wolf/god/or whatever really did appear to give me arcane truths.”

Not all are ready for that kind of understanding, just like there are rated-R movies there are religions that go beyond the understanding of some people - as if they were kids who are not yet ready to accept Santa Claus as a myth.

"I was worthy of seeing the truth, you are not. I am more mature/open minded/humble (yeah RIGHT )/more ‘whatever I think is good’, than you are. Oh, and you are the arrogant one!"

People should choose the religion that answers their questions - completely answers their questions

“Only religion and other woo have answers to all the important questions.”

- and respect the religious beliefs of all others, no matter how silly they may seem.

Woo must be respected only on the account of it being woo, not because it, or its believers have particularly earned any respect and seldom show any respect themselves to people they feel are “close-minded skeptics and scientists”.

I can honestly tell you that the TRUTH is much stranger than you can imagine, and science is not even close to uncovering it.

“I know more than all the scientists that have ever lived, and, oh, did I mention that I am a humble person, and that you are the arrogant ones?”

------

Yup, there was a common woo claim in almost every sentence in that post, and we have seen them all, without a single exception, numerous times before.

 

[Orphia Nay]

Interesting article in the OP, Athon.

It's also interesting to compare that with the latest Australian Census.

http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/[email protected]!OpenDocument

Firstly, this:

Christianity remained the dominant religion in Australia, although non-Christian religions continued to grow at a much faster rate. Since 1996, the number of people reporting that they are Christian grew from around 12.6 million to 12.7 million, but as a proportion of the total population this number fell (from 71% to 64%). Over the same period, those affiliated with non-Christian faiths increased from around 0.6 million to 1.1 million people, and collectively accounted for 5.6% of the total population in 2006 (up from 3.5% in 1996).

And (to me, at least) more encouragingly, this:

Since 1996, the number of Australian residents who stated no religion increased from 2.9 million to 3.7 million (17% of all residents in 1996 and 19% in 2006). New South Wales had the smallest proportion of its population not affiliated with any religion (14%), and South Australia had the largest proportion (24%).

So, although non-Christian religions grew 2.1%, "no religion" grew 2%, and Christianity fell 7%.

 

[Mobyseven]

Yeah, I was also marvelling at that.

You know, the longer I hang about these boards, the more I see the same old arguments. Anecdotal evidence - even limited - seems to trump objective investigation. The same old 'science doesn't know everything = my right to judge any old nonsense as being true'. The typical 'all opinions are equal'. It's whack-a-woo over and over. I've given up repeating the same old rebuttals.

Athon

Same. It's why I hardly bother in CT anymore - it's all been said before, and honestly, I don't think the fence-sitters care anymore. It's not fresh and new, it isn't attracting many new misinformed people to the cause...the whole idea of debunker for the newbies is old and done. There isn't a half-brained idea that hasn't been covered by Mark or any of the other sites.

 

[Mobyseven]

Except that isn't what he's telling us.

Actually yes, he is.

He's popped into the thread and he's telling us a story about how wonderful New Age religions are and how they've helped him, on top of which he points out to us how ignorant we are and how we can't see the big picture.

Now, sure, he might be telling us all this because he likes telling stories that have no bearing on anything, or he's telling us this because he thinks his anecdotal evidence is worth a damn in this debate. The woo come here, they 'just tell a story' or 'just ask questions' and then gradually, or sometimes not so gradually, claim that their stories and questions prove something. If this wasn't a pattern so gosh darn common then perhaps it would be tricky to call people on, but it is a common pattern, and you can generally tell who those people are from their very first post.

You might think he's telling us an unrelated story, but prior experience would suggest otherwise. The MO? "Here a story, now connect the dots and come to the same conclusion as me - otherwise you're arrogant and narrow-minded."

 

[Sleepy]

I was too young to go about it that sytematically, and a book on Buddhism happened upon me at that moment - in what we new-agers call a "synchronicity" or meaningful coincidence. It should'nt seem unusual that while looking for "God" I went through theism... that's where I expected to find the knowledge of others who have looked for God before me.

If you like synchronicity and meaningful coincidence, smoke a few cones of strong weed and listen closely to the lyrics of your favourite music... it feels like it's addressed directly to you..

 

[sphenisc]

Actually yes, he is.

He's popped into the thread and he's telling us a story about how wonderful New Age religions are and how they've helped him, on top of which he points out to us how ignorant we are and how we can't see the big picture.

Now, sure, he might be telling us all this because he likes telling stories that have no bearing on anything, or he's telling us this because he thinks his anecdotal evidence is worth a damn in this debate. The woo come here, they 'just tell a story' or 'just ask questions' and then gradually, or sometimes not so gradually, claim that their stories and questions prove something. If this wasn't a pattern so gosh darn common then perhaps it would be tricky to call people on, but it is a common pattern, and you can generally tell who those people are from their very first post.

You might think he's telling us an unrelated story, but prior experience would suggest otherwise. The MO? "Here a story, now connect the dots and come to the same conclusion as me - otherwise you're arrogant and narrow-minded."

So, no he isn't.

 

[Bellatrix]

It also wouldn't surprise me if depressed people were more likely to try (or to be talked into trying) alternative religious systems if they offered the promise of happiness.

Campus church recruiters are trained to target depressed students, or so I am told.

Whoever told you that recruiters target depressed students was telling you the truth. When I was in college there was a group (disturbingly cult like group) called campus crusade. I went to a few meetings and at first I thought they were actually doing a basic bible study until one girl was kicked out of the group for getting pregnant. It bothered me, but I decided to give them the benefit of a doubt. I went to a recruitment event and I was appalled.
The student lounge was full of clubs for club day and I listened to the student leader tell another student that if he didn't turn his life over to Christ he would never be truly happy. That really didn't add up becouse a lot of the people in Campus Crusade were decidedly unhappy. And seemed to be forcing themselves into cheerfulness.

 

[quarky]

It amazes me that various woosters inhabit this web site. They take such a hammering here. I wonder if many atheists hang out on religious sites?
I guess some folks enjoy a good argument...but it almost seems masochistic here.

Arrogance makes me recoil, in whatever form it takes. It often comes in religious garb; also lab coats.

 

[Jimbo07]

There are those who have pursued the science of magic as a true science... the history of magick is a testament to it's possibility.

Just once... once in my life, I would like to see a single act of unbridled, unfettered, unambiguous magick. I would want it to accomplish something concrete and indisputable, without relying on such things as: babble about energy, stage-show tricks, or the disbelief of the audience.

I would even be satisfied with a single, indisputable consciousness-changing experience that: did not involve substances, worked with a reliable definition of consciousness, and was in-some-way discernable from other acts of imagination.

Just once...



...

In the meantime, I'll continue to speak over vast distances with my wife... on my cell phone.

 

[-Fran-]

I guess some folks enjoy a good argument...but it almost seems masochistic here.

Many of them doesn't even seem to do that, since they pull out as soon as they get questioned.

 

[Gazpacho]

Actually yes, he is.

He's not saying that the conclusions of the article about statistical New-Ager satisfaction are inaccurate.

Frankly I don't have time to wade through Fran's EPIC PWNAGE to figure out what it's getting at.

 

[six7s]

I guess some folks enjoy a good argument...but it almost seems masochistic here.

Many of them doesn't even seem to do that, since they pull out as soon as they get questioned.

Isn't the withdrawal method itself somewhat masochistic?

 

[-Fran-]

Isn't the withdrawal method itself somewhat masochistic?

Yeah, could be, I guess.

 

[quarky]

Is it possible that some of the apparent woo-trolls are actually seasoned skeptics that just like to mess with people? I can imagine such people existing, and having a pretty good laugh over threads like this.

(can't help looking for logical explanations)

 

[-Fran-]

Is it possible that some of the apparent woo-trolls are actually seasoned skeptics that just like to mess with people? I can imagine such people existing, and having a pretty good laugh over threads like this.

(can't help looking for logical explanations)

Yeah, now that you're saying it.. Fitting that many woo clichés into one post...it is kind of suspicious

 

[Mobyseven]

So, no he isn't.

Who are you, John Cleese?

 

[thoth108]

And that is?

Seeing the other side. My sight is not all that developed, but in a pitch black room I can make out what look like beings of light all around us. In another use of shamanic technique, time can be transcended to experience the future, past, or an alternate time line. I have many out of body experiences. Most of the things I seek during these experiences are of pure personal interest to me, and offer little proof to the outsider of what I have accomplished; from my experience, though, the fact of the reality of the events has been verified completely.

What is the meaning of life to you, then?

Life is it's gift unto itself. Everything is a splinter of the Source, the origin of all things, which is experiencing the infinite possibilities through each individual, self-involved consciousness simultaneously. To put it simply, we are all God - a single thread among an infinite number of threads of God; we are all connected, we all came from the same place, and we are doing this(life) for fun. The meaning of life, therefore, is experiencing Joy.

"If you're not laughing, then you're not getting it." - Zen saying.

 

[thoth108]

Magick for dummies.

Just once... once in my life, I would like to see a single act of unbridled, unfettered, unambiguous magick. I would want it to accomplish something concrete and indisputable, without relying on such things as: babble about energy, stage-show tricks, or the disbelief of the audience.

I would even be satisfied with a single, indisputable consciousness-changing experience that: did not involve substances, worked with a reliable definition of consciousness, and was in-some-way discernable from other acts of imagination.

Just once...



...

In the meantime, I'll continue to speak over vast distances with my wife... on my cell phone.

I apologize for this response, because it is out of place in this thread. However, since this site is giving away a million dollars to someone who can reliably do just what you are asking for, I'll give you a few tips on how you can experience a legitimate act of magick. First of all, to manifest something into reality you need to picture it clearly in your mind (if you can not picture something clearly and vividly, you can not manifest it); you need to think of it often; and while thinking about it you need to feel excited. There's a lot more to it than this, but that's the simple method. Picture a grande starbucks caramel latte in your mind, hold the image there as clearly as you can for as long as you can while maintaining as powerful an experience of joy and excitement as you can over your tasty beverage. Tell no one about your vision of this latte, and wait to see how long before one falls into your lap. Your result will depend upon your ability to focus. Typical results for a beginner who gives it a humble, legitimate sliver-of-a-doubt chance to actually work = 2 weeks. With further practice, time will decrease, but you must get over your doubt.

By the way, I'm not a skeptic in disguise. I really do believe in these things, and I like a lively debate. I have a tendency to ramble, which embarasses me on this site because you are all such good communicators. I'm here because I like the cutting edge of the debate on the reality of the paranormal.