Atheist Deals with Death

[Tressa]

My condolences.

There have been a couple of quotes that always come to mind for me; "I'll be what I was before I was born...what I was when the dinosaurs ruled the earth," Richard Dawkins, and "...became part of that eternal silence," Robert G. Ingersoll. There's a certain sort of solace, that we are all part of that cycle.

 

[aussiegirl]

When I was younger and saw a documentary of Houdini, and how clever he was as an escape artist. If anyone would have come back to haunt us, it would have been him.
Hence, he did not come back and after much searching from his wife, she also finally gave up on the idea.
As I was flicking through the TV channels the other night, I caught John Edwards again, and I just watched for a few min. In those few min, I could see how he was struggling somewhat with "getting a lead".... and he started with, "I seem to hear a J... no. Jamie, or Jane.. and so it goes, till the poor victim gives him the name, of a relative, who was Joan or something. It's so pathetic!
Also, watching a video recently that was posted here somewhere, of Silvia Brown on Montel, I noticed she looked rather obese, and almost as if had been (on the bottle) or maybe some other drug.
When is the general public going to wake up to these frauds?
I realise I'm sort of getting off the subject, but then again, we are talking about people who have passed on.

Why haven't any of these so called psychics called up Houdini????

Articulett, you reminded me when I was 28, I lost my mother. It was the first "death" I experienced in my life. I feel for you, as losing a husband must be so much worse when you are so young. Glad that you have a son.
My brother was into Tarot Cards and Seances. He said that he asked a question about our mother, that no one would have known. The glass started moving in all directions, spelling out her name, and then answering the question. He never did tell me what that question/answer was.
I was suspicious even then, and told him to "leave our Mother in peace" because if she was up there somewhere, I said let her leave this earth and move on. (She had seven kids and not a very pleasant life with my father).
I was so angry that he did this, as to me those days, it was disrespecting the dead.
I later became a great skeptic, and am so glad that I see reality for what it is.

I also felt as if my mother was with me for a whole week. Even when I watched my hands for instance, doing the dishes, I could see her. It was as if she was inside me, and didn't want to leave me. I now know that our emotions can be tricked into many things, and unless we see them for what they are, we can easily start to believe in the paranormal.

 

[NeilC]

I've not really noticed believers being much less upset by the death of a close relative or friend. Maybe the afterlife thing is some comfort, it's hard to tell really.

I guess the simple fact is: some things are just bad news. You can't do anything other than accept them and find a way of looking at things that accentuates the positives and trust that time will heal.

I wonder if the belief in heaven etc really makes much difference to that process.

 

[articulett]

I've not really noticed believers being much less upset by the death of a close relative or friend. Maybe the afterlife thing is some comfort, it's hard to tell really.

I guess the simple fact is: some things are just bad news. You can't do anything other than accept them and find a way of looking at things that accentuates the positives and trust that time will heal.

I wonder if the belief in heaven etc really makes much difference to that process.

I suspect that whatever you have come to believe... the death of a loved one is not the time to be challenged on it. I am very careful about what I say around a grieving person... but believers tend not to be careful about what they say around grieving non believers. Perhaps they presume everyone believes as they do; they'll say things like "he's watching over you" or "she's in heaven"... and it makes the grieving nonbeliever feel weird. It isn't comforting, but you can't say that... so you just smile and thank them for their sentiments. I think it's better to share a memory about the dead person or to ask to know more about them... that was more comforting to me. Or to let them know you hurt because they hurt that you wish you could take away the hurt or lessen it.

Pretending to know something that you cannot know is weird and inflicts your beliefs about what happens after death on someone at the wrong time. I don't know a nonbeliever who would comfort a believer by saying something that conflicts with their belief. I had a Mormon friend tell me "it's too bad that you weren't married in the Mormon temple, because then you'd know you'd be together forever." (They have "forever" marriages that are "sealed" for eternity by the church...) It was insulting; not comforting. I told her not to worry, I didn't find the prospect of being married to her husband forever comforting in the least.

Don't they understand that really, really, really believing something doesn't make it TRUE??!

 

[St.Michael]

Almost all of my relatives died after terminal illnesses. I always looked up on their deaths as an end to their physical suffering and the rest of the family's mental anguish at watching loved ones suffer.

 

[Upchurch]

Although many on here criticize my loose use of the term "life after death" as not really the same thing, I'm going to use it here again anyway.

I truly believe that as long as I carry my grandmother's genes, continue to live the way she taught me, and pass these things on to my children and grandchildren, she will continue to live on.

Is that life after death? I think so. It certainly makes me feel better and gives me a structure to deal with a death without relying on the woo.

Take that as you will.

 

[articulett]

Although many on here criticize my loose use of the term "life after death" as not really the same thing, I'm going to use it here again anyway.

I truly believe that as long as I carry my grandmother's genes, continue to live the way she taught me, and pass these things on to my children and grandchildren, she will continue to live on.

Is that life after death? I think so. It certainly makes me feel better and gives me a structure to deal with a death without relying on the woo.

Take that as you will.

I agree. Memes and genes live on and evolve long after their progenitors are gone...

The world is different for them having been here, and nothing can change that fact nor the fact that you got to be part of that experience. You are changed from their existence... in the case of your grandmother-- you are HERE because of her existence.

 

[Frozenwolf150]

I finally decided to read over this thread. Coincidentally, my own ailing grandmother died just a couple of weeks ago. The unusual thing is that I'm not all that saddened over it, because it didn't exactly come as a shock. I know that everyone has to die sooner or later, and I know that life must go on. It's true that she lived a good long life. She died at age 97 after surviving two hip replacements and a severe brain injury. That's a long time to live by any standard. I could not attend the service though, because it took place 8,000 miles away in Hawaii where she lived.

I believe funerals are for the sake of the living, the purpose of life is to live, and that a lack of belief in any fanciful afterlife is more life-affirming than the alternative. Death makes life possible, and is a natural part of it. My relationship with my grandmother was when she was alive (albeit before she lost her faculties). An imaginary god or an imaginary heaven are not necessary, and only serve to cheapen and trivialize human life.

 

[Upchurch]

you are HERE because of her existence.

I'd go further and say that avocado and I (and all of us) are WHO we are because of our grandmothers' existence.

 

[articulett]

I'd go further and say that avocado and I (and all of us) are WHO we are because of our grandmothers' existence.

Absolutely.

 

[aussiegirl]

A few years after my Mother died, I had a harrowing experience. One of my girlfriends, aged 50, (I was 30 and always had older friends for some reason). She was shot in the stomach in her hardware store. The guy only got away with a few dollars in the till. She only opened this business a few months before, and we already talked about what she would do if she were held up. Well, she said, "he can have the lot, I'm not going to argue with anyone over a few dollars"... it was so so weird that we talked about it, and then it happened.

We don't know why the guy shot her, as she would not have hesitated to hand over the money. She died in hospital.
I went to her "Catholic Funeral"... and it was so emotionally strained as the school her kids went to, sang so many sad, very sad hymns.. I could hardly contain my crying. It was just awful. I was also angry, when her husband gave a speech and said, "we must forgive this man".... I wanted to scream, and scream and say, how dare you forgive this guy so soon???? aagghhhh!!!

You would think that this should have lured me to a religious belief? On the contrary... I know he probably said this as a way to comfort himself perhaps, and in a way you have to admire the guy.
I wonder what you guys think about this?

I was more upset over that funeral than I was when my Mother died... I don't know why, but the whole process made me mad. It was all aimed at stirring up our "already sensitive emotions of her death"... she was so innocent and some idiot took her life!

(I first learned of her death when I saw the news on the Tele and saw her picture, it just shocked me. I immediately rang mutual friends to ask if that was really her or if i was seeing things).

 

[articulett]

When I was 12 my mother was killed by a drunk driver who was also killed (he was 19--it was a head on collision and I was also in the car.) The kids mother lost her only child and she felt terrible about what had happened so she tried to heal her grief and bond with my mothers 3 children (age 11, 12, and 13). I know it was horrible that she lost her child... and I wasn't mad at him or anyone... not that it would do any good, but I didn't want to her near me. She had been burned in some fire recently and wore a black veil over her face which added to the creepiness factor. And I knew I should be nicer, but the whole thing was just weird. I didn't blame her or anything, but I didn't want her trying to comfort me and I didn't feel capable of being a comfort for her.

 

[korenyx]

I'm sorry for your loss. It took me a long time to deal with my father's death but now sometimes I dream about him and I don't feel sad. I feel glad he came back to visit and he is still alive in my memories.

 

[articulett]

I'm sorry for your loss. It took me a long time to deal with my father's death but now sometimes I dream about him and I don't feel sad. I feel glad he came back to visit and he is still alive in my memories.

I've had dreams about dead loved one both as a believer and non believer... during the dream I'd always sense that something was wrong or some sense of forboding but I couldn't place my finger on it... At first I'd feel awful waking up and realize what was wrong is that my loved one is dead in "real life"... but now I consider it a really special thing when it happens. Not a sign... but something to savor like a fantastic memory. I feel amazed that my brain "recreated" them for me. Sometimes a smell will transform me in that same way... the smell of the night cream my mom wore, for example.

 

[NeilC]

When I was 12 my mother was killed by a drunk driver who was also killed (he was 19--it was a head on collision and I was also in the car.) The kids mother lost her only child and she felt terrible about what had happened so she tried to heal her grief and bond with my mothers 3 children (age 11, 12, and 13). I know it was horrible that she lost her child... and I wasn't mad at him or anyone... not that it would do any good, but I didn't want to her near me. She had been burned in some fire recently and wore a black veil over her face which added to the creepiness factor. And I knew I should be nicer, but the whole thing was just weird. I didn't blame her or anything, but I didn't want her trying to comfort me and I didn't feel capable of being a comfort for her.

Crikey, that is a pretty harsh story and a difficult thing for a 12 year old to deal with. I'm sure in a hollywood film you would have all felt some special bond but in real life I can imagine how freaky it would be.