Merged The challenge is coming to an end.

[jojonete]

I move we propose an X Prize for Paranormalism.

Isn't that basically what the MDC is?

I had never heard about X-Prizes, but I've been reading the web site and it seems the answer is yes: it's basically an MDC. Now, if the JREF is withdrawing the MDC, an X-Prize could be a nice way to keep it going without tying up the JREF staff's time.
However, as of now, I see two problems with proposing an MDC-like xprize:

• They ask for a detailed set of rules. Looking at their sample set of rules, I think the protocol for the paranormal demonstration would need to be stated in advance.
• In the proposal form they ask explicitly: "Who do you think would fund this Prize?". Any volunteers?

 

[The Atheist]

It's not relevant, in part because as far as I can tell, it isn't true. As far as I know, I don't have any ads on the blog at all, much less a psychic one. I'd love to know what you took to be an ad though, or if wordpress is somehow magically not showing me and me alone the ads it has peppered all over the blog.

No, I'm highly sorry, it was my mistake - I must have got you mixed up with someone else, and krelnik had already pointed it out to me. If I'd known you were a member here I would have already noted the stuff-up.

It's a most excellent blog, I've been reading lots of it since I realised the mistake, great collection of articles.

Should be bookmarked by everyone:

http://badidea.wordpress.com/

Think of it less as ending the challenge and more as starting a new chapter in advocacy.

I think we're all hoping that's the case.

 

[BadIdea]

No problem: I was more amused and confused than anything. I actually just signed up in order to defend my honor, but I shouldn't have worried: skeptics and scientists correct themselves and each other for a living.

In any case, not signing up here seems like a deficiency I should have remedied long ago. The very good thing is, however, that there are just so many great skeptical forums and sites now, it's hard to keep up with more than a few at a time!

 

[The Atheist]

Duh, I hadn't even realised that was your first post, either.

Welcome aboard!

If you manage to contribute in the style of your blog, you'll find a ready market around here - hope to see more of you!

 

[StoneRook]

Though I am unhappy that the MDC is being taken away, I can understand why it is being done.

Yes, it was a good "mud in the eye" thing you could say/point to woo people...

But we have all seen some of their responses,

"it's not real", "there is no money", "James Randi will not give a fair test....", etc...

Far to long, this money was held up for the belief of woo. Now it can do something non-woo.

I'm all for that.

I would suggest to all the people that do not want it to go away, raise your own million, then offer it again.

I would imagine the logistics in handling the challenge will make you come to the same end that JR came too.

Funny, how none of the "seers" saw this coming.....

 

[Rasmus]

No problem: I was more amused and confused than anything. I actually just signed up in order to defend my honor, but I shouldn't have worried: skeptics and scientists correct themselves and each other for a living.

In any case, not signing up here seems like a deficiency I should have remedied long ago. The very good thing is, however, that there are just so many great skeptical forums and sites now, it's hard to keep up with more than a few at a time!

I just want to point out that the MDC is drawing people here even when it's being discontinued!

 

[DRBUZZ0]

The million dollar challenge got some very good publicity and made a fool out of the Pear Audio guy not long ago. That was a pretty good example of it as a press tool.

I personally hope that the decision is reversed because I thought the million dollar challenge was what made the jref stand out amongst skeptic organizations (aside from Mr. Randi's great way of making points).

 

[colin]

Today’s explanation in Swift doesn’t make sense to me. I mean, that’s their job; that’s what they do; that’s how they educate people!

And in my opinion, it’s worked pretty well.

 

[The Atheist]

The million dollar challenge got some very good publicity and made a fool out of the Pear Audio guy not long ago. That was a pretty good example of it as a press tool.

The comment about Pear got me thinking:

And if you needed any more evidence that those who loudly accept the JREF million-dollar challenge speak with forked tongue, go to tinyurl.com/24ojlt and see what Audioholics Online A/V Magazine has to say about the comedy generated by Michael Fremer and Adam Blake, who have precipitously backed out of proving their claim that Pear Anjou speaker cables can be differentiated from ordinary cables. Yes, it’s a tired old horse, and very dead, but it’s good to see that responsible audiophile authorities are able to see just what a farce such a matter can become.

I accept entirely the premise that no "known" psychic is ever going to take the challenge.

On the other hand, when dealing with pseudoscience, it's not just a weapon, it's a Howitzer loaded with depleted-uranium shells. What would Randi have done to Pear without the MDC? Psychics and charlatans can claim all sorts of "psychic energy/negativity" as a defence, but with a profit-making, product-pushing entity, there's no doubt they're only in it for the money and the MDC can be used as a battering ram.

That's gonna hurt.

 

[DRBUZZ0]

The fact that the "big" psychics and other woo'ers won't take the challenge is not the point. Uri Geller or Sylvia Browne are not going to touch that. And it's pretty clear to anyone that if you even brought it up to them (which isn't going to happen because they choose their venues to be sympathetic such as Larry King or Montel) then they would mumble an excuse and try to change the subject or something.

Fine, be that as it may, I find that compelling. I have had friends who have been interested, even swayed by the fact that the million dollar challenge exists and that people have the opportunity to take it and nobody will.

What it does is it shuts up those who want to come out and make a ridiculous claim (such as Pear audio) or it keeps the others running from it.

 

[Creekfreak]

I have been in contact with Mr Randi and he has told me that the money will be spent on bigfoot research .

 

[chillzero]

Creek, you're a real funny guy.

sometimes.

 

[davefoc]

Thanks for the link to fark.com on this. There were some funny comments over there. I especially liked:

Is he predicting there will be psychics after that and doesn't want to pay out?

Nope he just gave up the ghost

and:

The real psychics saw this coming and were just waiting it out

and cpd.d had a great bit about sylvia browne looking for the house phone to talk to Randi. I didn't quote it out of respect for the rights of the site, http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.pl?IDLink=3305688 , but I thought it was great.

As to how I feel about this:
Being a somewhat conservative individual I tend to not like change, but I think I understand where the JREF is coming from on this and my sense of it is that the organization made the right decision.

Years ago I wrote Randi suggesting that he develop a television program where he would investigate a wider range of issues. He may have something like that in mind now or perhaps he wants to focus more on specific con artists that are doing much more harm than the occasional dowser. Whatever Randi does I look forward to following his adventures in the years ahead.

 

[Tressa]

...Years ago I wrote Randi suggesting that he develop a television program where he would investigate a wider range of issues. He may have something like that in mind now or perhaps he wants to focus more on specific con artists that are doing much more harm than the occasional dowser. Whatever Randi does I look forward to following his adventures in the years ahead.

Can you imagine a Randied version of P&T's BS?! "Randi: Woo!" Or a set of DVDs with that sort of theme (for schools, clubs, personal, etc) and a lecture tour for promotion.

 

[Ron_Tomkins]

I would suggest to all the people that do not want it to go away, raise your own million, then offer it again.

Now wait a second.... you kinda gave me a idea.

What if the JREF opened a donation for people to give as much as they can and see how much money we can accumulate to continue the challenge?

... or something like that

 

[Dunstan]

Now wait a second.... you kinda gave me a idea.

What if the JREF opened a donation for people to give as much as they can and see how much money we can accumulate to continue the challenge?

... or something like that

According to Randi's latest Commentary, that's not really the issue; it's more about the staff time spend negotiating test protocols, etc. Of course, money could solve that problem, too, by funding a staff position focused on running the Challenge.

 

[The Atheist]

... it's more about the staff time spend negotiating test protocols, etc. ...

There's a very, very simple way around that. Instead of demanding media presence and rubbish like that, make all challenges contingent upon passing another sceptical challenge first.

There are other challenges spread around the world and I doubt any of them would mind taking up that slack. JREF could issue an approved list of challenges.

 

[Ryan O'Dine]

Now wait a second.... you kinda gave me a idea.

What if the JREF opened a donation for people to give as much as they can and see how much money we can accumulate to continue the challenge?

... or something like that

Or instead of continuing the old challenge, have the JREF forum host its own. Perhaps a TDC -- Thousand Dollar Challenge.

Especially for the paranormalists who show up here.

All in favor, raise my hand.









...Apologies to Steven Wright.

 

[Nucular]

Or instead of continuing the old challenge, have the JREF forum host its own. Perhaps a TDC -- Thousand Dollar Challenge.

Especially for the paranormalists who show up here.

I have to say, I like this idea - what do you picture, entirely online testing somehow (so only those claims amenable to such a test would qualify), or possibly established forum members signing up to supervise testing in their geographical area?

Although it would require JREF permission to happen here, which might be tricky given that they're scrapping their own prize.

Also there are probably lots of other problems such as protocol agreement etc. (even when we're discussing the JREF tests there's little consensus on the details). But it is a nice idea.

 

[Ryan O'Dine]

I have to say, I like this idea - what do you picture, entirely online testing somehow (so only those claims amenable to such a test would qualify), or possibly established forum members signing up to supervise testing in their geographical area?

Although it would require JREF permission to happen here, which might be tricky given that they're scrapping their own prize.

Also there are probably lots of other problems such as protocol agreement etc. (even when we're discussing the JREF tests there's little consensus on the details). But it is a nice idea.

I could see how the JREF proper would frown on the idea. Too much possibility for confusion.

However, if they were amenable, I personally was picturing using forum threads to generate a protocol. We already have practice in that on this very MDC forum.

I was also thinking we'd have members do the testing. Or ask skeptical groups to do it, much as the MDC is conducted.

Another problem, however, would be a need for lawyers. If we could get around that, I for one would be ready to donate.