kmortis
Biomechanoid, Director of IDIOCY (Region 13)
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Thomas Jefferson's admiration and financial support of Christianity
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UnrepentantSinner
A post by Alan Smithee
It takes a special kind of crazy to resurrect old threads, pick a random post, respond to it with a previously debunked point and act as if one is actually making a point.
OK, why don't you go out on the streets of, say, Tampa, Florida and stop random citizens to read them the page(s) from U.S. Rep Cutler's diary and then ask them if they think it should be taught in school - make sure you read them the entire entry. I think most of them - without regard to their belief system - will respond in much the same way we do here. We know with certainty about T.J. - it isn't all written down in code on the back of the 17th copy of the Declaration of Independence but in his own writings.
Feel free to stop playing with the truth and do something useful with your life - make soap or candles or some such. You are failing miserably and boringly here.
shadron
Philosopher
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which says in part:
barton said:
So, what are the logical conclusions to be reached? I would consider the following:
- Barton was lying or mislead, so it didn't happen, or at least not in the way described; or
- Jefferson didn't really believe in this separation thing he wrote about, and was being disingenuous about it for some unknown reason; or
- Jefferson did as described, for reasons that we do not know - perhaps having something to do with the fact that the preacher was a friend, or that it was the socially expected thing for a president of the time to do, or because he liked the ambience of the social situation - a break from business, a quiet time to contemplate, perhaps, or all the above; or
- perhaps he did not see it as odd that he should attend church while simultaneously denying it a grip over civil life.
Now, which one do you think it is? Or have I missed other possibilities?
Some time ago (like, 20 years?) a Christian friend gave me a book which examined the same evidence you and the other posters have brought to bear. The writer's conclusion was that Jefferson was just, plain, evil - the evidence from the overwhelming majority of his writings show he was the worst thing that could have ever happened to Christian America. I'm certainly glad you aren't taking that tack, but it only goes to show that there are lots of ways of looking at the man.
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To shadron, Thank you, for your post, even though I don't agree with some of your conclusions. If I get the time, I might reply to some of them.
It was nice to have someone talk "entirely" about the topic instead of spending time talking about me for a change.
It was nice to have someone talk "entirely" about the topic instead of spending time talking about me for a change.
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And to some who talk about Resurrecting a thread?? Huh, there were several posts on Dec. 9 and many on Dec. 10. And even if a thread is brought to the front after a long period of time so what, just ignore it if you don't like it. I hate to inform some of you but the world does not revolve around you and your opinions, Others who haven't seen the thread before might have some interesting info and insights like in shadron's post.
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UnrepentantSinner
A post by Alan Smithee
joobz
Tergiversator
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I see you've ignored my post....
It's clear as day to everyone here that you are being dishonest by ignoring them. It is even more grossly clear that you are attempting to distract from answering these questions by claiming attacks against you...
You realize that we discuss YOU becuase YOU are the reason for the lack of discourse. Repeating the same statements (which are now proven lies) and ignoring the points that deem those statements nonsense is intellectual dishonesty.
Why do you not try to actually advance the conversation by addressing the arguments which prove your statements false.
I've told you before, after the multiple personal attacks you've made, your on the bottom of my reply list. Plus many of your posts are long and complicated and would take along time to respond to. With all the personal attacks, why bother to take the time. One day you'll understand that.
Why don't you just make your point about a "topic" and leave me out of it. I realize you probably won't do this though and I'll have to keep saying the above, but so be it.
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Hokulele
Deleterious Slab of Damnation
Yeah joobz, can't you see it is much easier to repost a random tidbit of unsupported nonsense then to write out a thoughtful, factually supported commentary. Sheesh.
kmortis
Biomechanoid, Director of IDIOCY (Region 13)
Watch it, Hok, or you too will be at the bottom of Doc's list.
Of course, with the august persona that I can guess that are there, you'd be in good company.
joobz
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which part of
joobz said:
was a personal attack? You asked for proof of why your statemnet was wrong. I provided it. there's nothing personal about it.
I value truth, reasoning and honesty. I value respect and love for my fellow man. As such, I will never understand your desire to ignore the truth I say and your inability to admit error. I've apologized for things I've done that are wrong. But you don't even recognize the wrong you do. Can you understand why that's horrible behavior?
Foster Zygote
Dental Floss Tycoon
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You, want your cake and eat too. One post you call me a liar and a troll and down the line you demand a serious response to a post. Sorry, it doesn't work that way in the real world. Once again, just talk about the topic and stop asking for responses from me unless you give an apology (public or private).
Hokulele
Deleterious Slab of Damnation
Funny, for a person who has joobz "at the bottom of my reply list", you certainly do respond to him more than you respond to the posts refuting your work.
Being a new visitor to this thread you probably didn't read the following website but if Barton was lying that means the curator of this Library of Congress website was lying also:
http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/rel06-2.html
http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/rel06.html
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