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Twoofers Only: The Mark Roberts Factual Error Thread

LastChild said:
I don't know but he's probably referencing the 2004 story by William Bunch in the Philidelphia Daily News that was picked up by other news agencies.

http://www.pnionline.com/dnblog/extra/archives/001139.html#more

Is this an error? I mean they did say they found the boxes didn't they?
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The linked article by Swing Dangler says DeMasi claimed something in 2004. He uses that to assert Gravy is in error. Your linked article states: "Efforts over several days to locate and interview DeMasi, who is now said to be with the FDNY’s Marine Unit, were not successful." That doesn't sound like the DeMasi claim from 2004 to me.

At the moment, even RedIbis believes Bellone is not a reliable source ... http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3266542&postcount=846

All I've seen referenced using google is the 2003 book that this unreliable source and DeMasi supposedly did together. However, the linked article states the claim was from 2004, not 2003. So, I need a quote in order to even begin to determine the reliability of DeMasi's 2004 claim.

Thanks for trying though.
 
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Zlaya said:
And then the data was discarded, and was made to fit the predetermined conclusion that Tim Osman did it, with his patsies.

Hey, that was hysterical, thank you!
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Zlaya, please stay on topic. This is about lies and errors in Mark's work, not about making up your own lies.
 
Pookster said:
The linked article by Swing Dangler says DeMasi claimed something in 2004. He uses that to assert Gravy is in error. Your linked article states: "Efforts over several days to locate and interview DeMasi, who is now said to be with the FDNY’s Marine Unit, were not successful." That doesn't sound like the DeMasi claim from 2004 to me.

At the moment, even RedIbis believes Bellone is not a reliable source ... http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3266542&postcount=846

All I've seen referenced using google is the 2003 book that this unreliable source and DeMasi supposedly did together. However, the linked article states the claim was from 2004, not 2003. So, I need a quote in order to even begin to determine the reliability of DeMasi's 2004 claim.

Thanks for trying though.
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No problem

It’s DeMasi who is claimed in the Aug 2003 book to have witnessed the following…

DeMasi was with now defunct Engine Company 261 in 2001. He wrote up his recollections of the Ground Zero recovery in a glossy book self-published by a group that calls itself Trauma Recovery Assistance for Children, or the TRAC Team. The book was published in 2003 but received little notice.
DeMasi, an all-terrain vehicles hobbyist - said he donated 4 ATVs to the clean-up and became known as “the ATV Guy.”

“At one point, I was asked to take Federal Agents around the site to search for the black boxes from the planes,” he wrote. “We were getting ready to go out. My ATV was parked at the top of the stairs at the Brooks Brothers entrance area. We loaded up about a million dollars worth of equipment and strapped it into the ATV...”

“There were a total of four black boxes. We found three.”

This was pointed to and brought to light in the 2004 Philadelphia News article that was then picked up and ran by other news agencies. If DeMasi or other are misrepresented then one would think there should be some sort of retraction somewhere. Unless of course you are making the implication that Bellone, DeMasi, and others, are conspiracy liars looking to make a buck on accusing innocents of murder. In which case you would think DeMasi would have followed up on his claims to milk it for all it’s worth.

Now would DeMasi a firefighter at the time be accusing himself of murder?

What is your implication? I don't think Swing pointing to an article from 2004 that quotes DeMasi from a late 2003 book can really be pointed to as inaccurate. At least not anywhere near the same level of inaccuracy shown by Gravy who seemed to conveniently miss this entire documented fact.
 
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Does zlaya have a problem with dates? did he just ignore what was posted?
 
What would be the point in hiding the boxes? If they were incriminating they could always change them and release whatever they wanted. This whole thing is pointless.
 
DGM said:
What would be the point in hiding the boxes? If they were incriminating they could always change them and release whatever they wanted. This whole thing is pointless.
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Well where are they? Aren't they made of steel and built to be recovered? They didn't melt did they?
 
LastChild said:
Well where are they? Aren't they made of steel and built to be recovered? They didn't melt did they?
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You didn't happen to see the hunk of concrete and stuff that they call the "meteorite"? That was 4 floors compressed together, and you ask what happened to the boxes? They're not indestructible.
 
DGM said:
You didn't happen to see the hunk of concrete and stuff that they call the "meteorite"? That was 4 floors compressed together, and you ask what happened to the boxes? They're not indestructible.
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So you're calling the heroic firefighters liars? Are they accusing people of murder too?
 
LastChild said:
So you're calling the heroic firefighters liars? Are they accusing people of murder too?
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No, Where did I say that? Have you ever heard of "mistaken".

Why would "they" go through all the trouble of hiding them if people actually saw them? Just change the data. Your argument is about as illogical as it gets.
 
DGM said:
No, Where did I say that? Have you ever heard of "mistaken".

Why would "they" go through all the trouble of hiding them if people actually saw them? Just change the data. Your argument is about as illogical as it gets.
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They are mistaken about the FBI telling them not to talk about it? How does one make that sort of mistake? lol And why change the data when you can just hide the boxes?
 
LastChild said:
They are mistaken about the FBI telling them not to talk about it? How does one make that sort of mistake? lol And why change the data when you can just hide the boxes?
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Pathetic charge. The FBI hides the boxes because changing the data is too hard, or they are too lazy? And of course this lie means 9/11 was an inside job because you made it up, the uncle Fetzer school of, I said it, it is true. Cool

This is pathetic since we know 11 and 175 hit the WTC towers. We need no FDR to tell us what we saw. The FDR is used to see what happen to the planes in an accident; there was no accident on 9/11. Sorry, you whole point is worthless, pointless, tripe. Just junk so you can accuse the FBI of lying. Good job. You sound like a broken record jumping on made up, idiotic detail you made up!

This is your best? They hid the FDR! That is it? It mean what? Oh, you don't know. Good stuff. Couple this with all the facts of 9/11 truth and we have a pile of nothing. Still no error for Mark, just smart remarks and making fun while you pile up your zero facts on nothing about nothing for no reason but to blame the FBI for something you made up that they didn't do. Fantasy or just poor research with no rational conclusions?
 
DGM said:
Actually a little factual evidence would help your movement immensely.
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You mean like the factual evidence that Gravy missed where the firefighters claimed to have found the black boxes at the WTC and the FBI told them to keep quiet about it? The same firefighters who the debunkers always claim the truthers are accusing of murder?

Actually I think there is evidence like that and when you point it out to a debunker they'll try to hand wave it all away with something like "they must be mistaken". Then when you show the debunker that they couldn't be mistaken they'll the call the heroic firefighter a liar.

Nice movement you belong to there debunker.
 
LastChild said:
No problem

It’s DeMasi who is claimed in the Aug 2003 book to have witnessed the following…

...

What is your implication? I don't think Swing pointing to an article from 2004 that quotes DeMasi from a late 2003 book can really be pointed to as inaccurate. At least not anywhere near the same level of inaccuracy shown by Gravy who seemed to conveniently miss this entire documented fact.
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Given that the 2003 claim was made in a book co-authored (I assume) by a proven liar, I'd need a statement by DeMasi that the claim even in 2003 was accurate and true. But again, that was 2003 ... not 2004.

The alleged claim Swing Dangler is using to assert an error in Gravy's paper was supposedly made in 2004, according to the article linked and quoted by Swing Dangler. It wasn't a reference to his 2003 book. The article clearly states, "Mike Bellone and Nicholas De Masi, claimed in 2004". I've asked him a number of times to provide the quote by DeMasi for his 2004 claim. No one has provided it yet. Either it exists, or it doesn't.

Thanks again for trying to help out though.
 
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LastChild said:
So you're calling the heroic firefighters liars? Are they accusing people of murder too?
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Mike Bellone is a proven fraud. His claim to be a firefighter was a lie. I posted the link in one of my previous posts. Even RedIBis admits he's not reliable.
 
LastChild said:
You mean like the factual evidence that Gravy missed where the firefighters claimed to have found the black boxes at the WTC and the FBI told them to keep quiet about it? The same firefighters who the debunkers always claim the truthers are accusing of murder?

Actually I think there is evidence like that and when you point it out to a debunker they'll try to hand wave it all away with something like "they must be mistaken". Then when you show the debunker that they couldn't be mistaken they'll the call the heroic firefighter a liar.

Nice movement you belong to there debunker.
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Movement? What movement? I'm just a guy that doesn't fall for any BS story that people feed me. How about you?
Can this guy back up his story? Your not referring to Mike Bellone are you? He's not actually a fireman.
 
Pookster said:
Mike Bellone is a proven fraud. His claim to be a firefighter was a lie. I posted the link in one of my previous posts. Even RedIBis admits he's not reliable.
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No what I read was that he was made an honorary firefighter I guess because of all the hours he worked down at groundzero. Is that why he's a fraud?
 
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