Oliver on the Iraqi death toll.

[brumsen]

I think that after the Iraqi war will be over, and after the whole fuss with Iran will be settled, they will not have enemies around to justify their 500-billion-plus-a-year army..

you really think so? I doubt it very much. It's nice to see that you think that from now on (after Iran anyways) it can only get better, not worse... but I do not share that optimism.

That the economic power is shifting to other parts of the world will mean that America will find it harder and harder to defend its strategic interests. But it's not going to give up trying.

 

[brumsen]

...combining self-interest with missionary zeal rarely goes over well with the recipients. I'd consider this to be basic common sense psychology

Well said. Sounds like the point I was trying to get across, using many many more words.

 

[brumsen]

If he wins, I will eat a s*** and put the video right in this thread.

Hmmm I think it's time I start campaigning for him as well, I sure would like to see that video.

 

[gumboot]

Americans killed millions in Vietnam and China

Um... what? I must have been asleep during the great American invasion of China...

Oliver, please, for the love of all that's holy, go read a history book.

-Gumboot

 

[WildCat]

Um... what? I must have been asleep during the great American invasion of China...

Oliver, please, for the love of all that's holy, go read a history book.

-Gumboot

Didn't you hear? The so-called Japanese invasion of China was really a US false-flag operation.

 

[Oliver]

Um... what? I must have been asleep during the great American invasion of China...

Oliver, please, for the love of all that's holy, go read a history book.

-Gumboot

Your optimism is inspiring - too bad that the Government
disagrees with you:

The Fog of War - Sec. of Defense Robert McNamara's Experience:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8653788864462752804

Google Video This video is not hosted by the ISF, the ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

 

[KoihimeNakamura]

It is also probably wrong.

 

[Oliver]

It is also probably wrong.

 

[Matteo Martini]

you really think so? I doubt it very much. It's nice to see that you think that from now on (after Iran anyways) it can only get better, not worse... but I do not share that optimism.

I think that having bases all around the world, is part of of the problem, not of the solution

 

[gumboot]

Your optimism is inspiring - too bad that the Government
disagrees with you:

The Fog of War - Sec. of Defense Robert McNamara's Experience:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8653788864462752804

Google Video This video is not hosted by the ISF, the ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

What has that got to do with anything? You claimed the US have killed "millions in Vietnam and China". I contend the US has not killed millions in China at all, in fact I'll contend that US military forces (I'm assuming that's what you're talking about) have not killed anyone in China (since the end of WW2).

You respond by posting a documentary about McNamara's eleven lessons learned from the Vietnam War? How is that relevant?

-Gumboot

 

[Matteo Martini]

What has that got to do with anything? You claimed the US have killed "millions in Vietnam and China". I contend the US has not killed millions in China at all, in fact I'll contend that US military forces (I'm assuming that's what you're talking about) have not killed anyone in China (since the end of WW2).

You respond by posting a documentary about McNamara's eleven lessons learned from the Vietnam War? How is that relevant?

-Gumboot

So, you agree the American troops killed millions in Vietnam, but not killed anyone in China?
BTW, I am not even sure the American army killed millions in Vietnam, even if the Vietnam war directly resulted in about 2 millions of ( mostly ) civilian deaths

 

[gumboot]

So, you agree the American troops killed millions in Vietnam, but not killed anyone in China? BTW, I am not even sure the American army killed millions in Vietnam, even if the Vietnam war directly resulted in about 2 millions of ( mostly ) civilian deaths

Well just over a million North Vietnamese and NLF combatants were killed/MIA in the Vietnam War, meanwhile the number of civilians killed is wildly debated, ranging from under 1 million to over 5 million.

-Gumboot

 

[Matteo Martini]

Well just over a million North Vietnamese and NLF combatants were killed/MIA in the Vietnam War, meanwhile the number of civilians killed is wildly debated, ranging from under 1 million to over 5 million.

-Gumboot

So, even more than 2 millions..

 

[Par]

From 500 thousands to 1.2 million, according to the latest estimates

Maybe you could provide a genuine link as well since many in here are still in denial-mode?

I have provided many.
Now, it is up to them to provide a link that the civilians victims in Iraq were 200-300

Fair enough...

Critical thinking at work.

 

[Oliver]

Critical thinking at work.

No. The most factual numbers are the ones that are
reported: Source = Iraqbodycount :

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/

Disclaimer:

We are not a news organization ourselves and like everyone else can only base our information on what has been reported so far. What we are attempting to provide is a credible compilation of civilian deaths that have been reported by recognized sources. Our maximum therefore refers to reported deaths - which can only be a sample of true deaths unless one assumes that every civilian death has been reported. It is likely that many if not most civilian casualties will go unreported by the media. That is the sad nature of war.

...Your numbers? Fox News?

 

[Par]

So, in order to support the figure of “500 thousands to 1.2 million” you cite the “most factual” reports, which state “78,280 – 85,289”.

 

[Par]

...Your numbers? Fox News?

I see you are still simply unable to relinquish you polarised and tribalist option that anyone who doesn’t agree with your conspiratorial agitprop must, by default, be a hard-right neo-con.

 

[Matteo Martini]

It is likely that many if not most civilian casualties will go unreported by the media.

So, in order to support the figure of “500 thousands to 1.2 million” you cite the “most factual” reports, which state “78,280 – 85,289”.

You are keeping ignoring evidence that it has been shown to you.
This is called bias.

 

[gumboot]

So, even more than 2 millions..

Last time I checked 5 million was more than "2 millions".

-Gumboot

 

[gumboot]

No. The most factual numbers are the ones that are
reported: Source = Iraqbodycount :

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/

Disclaimer:




...Your numbers? Fox News?

Yes that's right Oliver, the Iraq Body Count only uses Fox News for their sources.

Please try engage your brain for a brief second.

Here's a list of Iraqi newspapers that have websites.

Here's some middle east news agencies, and here's another list, and here's another just for fun.

Fox News indeed.

-Gumboot