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Twoofers Only: The Mark Roberts Factual Error Thread

RedIbis:
I find your obsession with the hundred foot claim to be interesting. The funny thing is if Rodriguez was to defend (?) it he would be calling into question his claim of 'last man out'. I think he wouldn't want to draw too much attention to that part of his story.

You present him with quite a dilemma don't you think?
 
RedIbis said:
Stop looking for a conspiracy where there is none. It's called the space bar. When you cut and paste out of an email it leaves lots of unnecessary spaces. I took out the spaces, chopped of the h and mistakenly replaced it with a capital letter. Big rule 8 deal.
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No conspiracy is necessary for you to be a consistent fraud.

Your explanation makes no sense- and the fact that you've changed it, and also went from "don't know" to "maybe" to "it was this" doesn't help your case.

Even if it was a simple mistake (somehow you replace letters when you cut and paste)- it shows that the email is not original, that you may have edited the contents. Again, assuming the email is even authentic.

Since you refuse to validate it- it's pointless to even investigate it further. As I said, this just confirms your history of deception.
 
RedIbis said:
I've been accused of much the same. I can't speak for Xena but I'll say this. When you stroll onto this forum and so much as pose a question that raises doubt about the official story you are greeted with an aresenal of name calling, contentiousness, and some generally silly behavior. Mark is not polite, objective, friendly or civil. When he's met with aggressive tactics his only recourse is to use the ignore function.
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Let's say hypothetically that you are right about Mark. So what? You're mad that he put you on ignore? I've read many posts on this forum, and Mark is far more civil than some other JREFers I've seen. What is the obsession with Mark in particular? You two and Willy Rodriguez have a very bizarre grudge against him in ways I can't understand. I think it's time to move on with your life. There are more important things then spending all your posts railing against some internet man named "Gravy".
 
DGM said:
RedIbis:
I find your obsession with the hundred foot claim to be interesting. The funny thing is if Rodriguez was to defend (?) it he would be calling into question his claim of 'last man out'. I think he wouldn't want to draw too much attention to that part of his story.

You present him with quite a dilemma don't you think?
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Not at all. If you want to be technical about it. With survivors still in the building, hypothetically speaking, after the collapse, Rodriguez could have been the last man out before the building collapses, not necessarily the last survivor pulled from the rubble.

I acknowledge that this is a bit tedious, but my insistence on this point is that it illustrates how Gravy throws a number on the first page of his analysis and the best he can say is that Rodriguez told him in conversation. This is why investigative journalists carry recorders. Hearsay is not an acceptable source of evidence.
 
RedIbis said:
I acknowledge that this is a bit tedious, but my insistence on this point is that it illustrates how Gravy throws a number on the first page of his analysis and the best he can say is that Rodriguez told him in conversation. This is why investigative journalists carry recorders. Hearsay is not an acceptable source of evidence.
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That isn't hearsay, I'm afraid. Hearsay would be if Gravy wrote that his source was someone who heard Rodriguez say what he said. Gravy could be cross-examined in court on what Rodriguez said to him directly, and it could not be thrown out as "hearsay".
 
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RedIbis said:
Not at all. If you want to be technical about it. With survivors still in the building, hypothetically speaking, after the collapse, Rodriguez could have been the last man out before the building collapses, not necessarily the last survivor pulled from the rubble.

I acknowledge that this is a bit tedious, but my insistence on this point is that it illustrates how Gravy throws a number on the first page of his analysis and the best he can say is that Rodriguez told him in conversation. This is why investigative journalists carry recorders. Hearsay is not an acceptable source of evidence.
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Kind of a stretch.
“Hi, I'm William Rodriguez. I'm not with the FDNY. Actually I’m the last survivor pulled from the rubble.”
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http://wtc.nist.gov/media/Public Transcript 021204 Final1_withlinks.pdf

Why don't you pick Rodriguez apart for his comments then if absolute accuracy is what you expect. You don't consider that a double standard?
 
again, red, his SOURCE IS willie rodriguez. If you dont like that, then that is YOUR problem. not ours.

IF willie wants to lie and say that Gravy has lied, then all he has to do is refute grayv's paper which has been up for months, and has had many opportunities to do so, and his refusal to address Gravy's report, speaks actually volumes to his own interests (and of course, that is not telling the truth about the events he experienced that day).

His constant embelishments to his original story shows that he has a problem with telling the truth about what happened that day.
 
Since there seems to be some sort of wager going on here, for the record: William Rodriguez has never contacted me to make corrections or clarifications to my paper, nor has he answered specific questions I've asked him with the intent of clarifying things, nor has he responded to my specific invitation to clarify the exact issues discussed here.

Again, this irrelevant nonsense was all dealt with in September: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3006033&postcount=127

I again ask that the rational people here stop rising to the bait of the very troubled RedIbis. Is that really too much to ask?
 
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RedIbis said:
Has Gravy ever provided a source for the claim that Rodriguez was 100 ft from the tower when it collapsed? The claim is made on the first page of his Escape Artist paper.

That's a big claim and without a source it's a big error.
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RedIbis,

Okay, let's just say it's a big error/lie:
How far was Rodriguez from the building as it collapsed, really?

How big, exactly, is Gravy's lie?

More importantly:
What do you think was his motive to tell this falsehood?

That is; how does this very specific 100ft figure support his conclusions?


Thanks.
 
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Hyperviolet said:
RedIbis,

Okay, let's just say it's a big error/lie:
How far was Rodriguez from the building as it collapsed, really?

How big, exactly, is Gravy's lie?

More importantly:
What do you think was his motive to tell this falsehood?

That is; how does this very specific 100ft figure support his conclusions?


Thanks.
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Okay, I see that I am unable to convince people not to engage with RedIbis over this nonsense. Hyperviolet, I have stated many times – including to Rodriguez – that if William Rodriguez wants to give me any other figure than "about 100 feet," I will gladly put that in my paper.

Hyperviolet, is this satisfactory to you, or is there something else you'd like me to do about this?
 
Gravy said:
Hyperviolet, is this satisfactory to you, or is there something else you'd like me to do about this?
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Personally, I'd like to see Rodriguez re-enact the events of that day...with a tape measure in hand.

Can you arrange that?
 
uk_dave said:
Personally, I'd like to see Rodriguez re-enact the events of that day...with a tape measure in hand.

Can you arrange that?
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I know some people in Canarsie who can arrange that, but they don't come cheap.
 
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Version 1 said:
Also I have never told him I was 100 feet from the Towers he lied about that as well.
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Version 2 said:
Also I have never told him I was 100 feet from the Towers, He lied about that as well.
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Since there are inconsistencies between the two versions you have posted (beyond what I have just pointed out), there is no way that both can be directly from Rodriguez. Furthermore, you have been unable to verify the email itself- letalone which version is supposed to be the accurate one. Your explanations for the discrepencies have made no sense at all, and bring further questions.

I'll take paypal.
 
Gravy said:
Okay, I see that I am unable to convince people not to engage with RedIbis over this nonsense.
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What?

It's not just about you convincing people not to respond. I have a few questions that i'd like to have answered. I see no problem.

Gravy said:
Hyperviolet, I have stated many times – including to Rodriguez – that if William Rodriguez wants to give me any other figure than "about 100 feet," I will gladly put that in my paper.
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Qui?
When have I contested that you wouldn't?

I'm playing on a hypothetical point; assuming that you're lying, purely for argument's sake, just to see what on Earth RedIbis thinks your gaining from this supposed deception.

Is this unclear?

Gravy said:
Hyperviolet, is this satisfactory to you, or is there something else you'd like me to do about this?
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.............................
 
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