AA Flight 11 For Sale!

AMTMAN said:
Also, anyone who's looking to buy an aircraft is going to know the history on that aircraft. There's a paper work trail a mile long on any commercial airliner.
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Speaking of that, let's change the subject to something much more interesting. How does one determine the ownership history of a given aircraft? I'd like to know how I can find out the histories of the four airplanes crashed on 9/11, including who owned them and what airlines flew them. Is that possible?

What makes it so interesting is that I have learned that El Al, Israel's national airline, sold several 767s and 757s in the months before the 9/11 attacks. Wouldn't it be quite a coincidence if these planes, sold by a nation that benefitted immensely from the attacks, ended up being used by the terrorists on 9/11?

COPYRIGHT 2001 Reed Business Information Ltd.
Arie Egozi/TEL AVIV

El Al is planning to save money by selling its Boeing 757 and 767 fleets and boosting its 737s and 777s to reduce the number of aircraft types it operates.

The Israeli national airline operates six all-Boeing fleets - 737s, 747-200s, 747-400s, 757s, 767s and 777s - but intends to sell its eight 757s and six 767s in order to purchase more 737-800/900s and 777s. El Al operates two 737-700s, three 737-800s and one 777, with two more on order. A fifth 747-400 is also an option, while the 747-200s will be sold.
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http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-11489747_ITM
 
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A-Train said:
What makes it so interesting is that I have learned that El Al, Israel's national airline, sold several 767s and 757s in the months before the 9/11 attacks. Wouldn't it be quite a coincidence if these planes, sold by a nation that benefitted immensely from the attacks, ended up being used by the terrorists on 9/11?

http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-11489747_ITM
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You just can't help yourself, can you? I wouldn't know where to start with this latest scenario of yours. Are you going to think it through, or do you need the painfully obvious pointed out to you? C'mon. Google is your friend(in this case).
 
apathoid said:
Who decides if the airplane gets written off? AA inspection, Boeing, the owner/lessor, the insurance company..? We basically had the exact same thing happen to an MD-11 here and after about a year in limbo(the plane just sat at the Delta North ramp at ATL), they found a buyer and the plane was eventually repaired and sold to UPS.




I dunno about that. The airplane still had some value(we sold all of our -200s; so there is a market) and if somebody wanted to pay for a wing and 2 refurbed CF-6s - I'm sure a deal could have happened. See above.
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Who ever the lien holder is I would imagine. The word we got was that that keel beam was damaged. Add to that a wing that is unrepairable, heat damage to the fuselage and the need for two engines that adds up to a hefty repair bill. Especially when you consider that there are 767's in the desert that don't need any kind of repair work. And as I have already said it's more than just a new wing and two engines.

Maybe I'm missing something, I just don't know what.
 
And before 9/11 Easyjet, Ryanair and a whole load of other european budget airlines were buying second hand airliners, as at the time, the air travel market was GROWING. Now isn't that a wacky coincidence A Train..... ?
 
A-Train said:
Speaking of that, let's change the subject to something much more interesting. How does one determine the ownership history of a given aircraft? I'd like to know how I can find out the histories of the four airplanes crashed on 9/11, including who owned them and what airlines flew them. Is that possible?

What makes it so interesting is that I have learned that El Al, Israel's national airline, sold several 767s and 757s in the months before the 9/11 attacks. Wouldn't it be quite a coincidence if these planes, sold by a nation that benefitted immensely from the attacks, ended up being used by the terrorists on 9/11?

http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-11489747_ITM
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You're kidding me right. If I didn't know any better I would say you were trying to get a reaction out of people. After all, who could be so twisted as to try and blame the Jews by implying it was ex-El Al aircraft that were used.

Here's a news flash for you A-Train, two of the aircraft belonged to United and two belonged to American. And by the way, how do you know they actually sold them prior to 9-11? El Al still operates 757 and 767 aircraft. Is this a case of you just assuming they were actually sold?
 
AMTMAN said:
Who ever the lien holder is I would imagine. The word we got was that that keel beam was damaged. Add to that a wing that is unrepairable, heat damage to the fuselage and the need for two engines that adds up to a hefty repair bill. Especially when you consider that there are 767's in the desert that don't need any kind of repair work. And as I have already said it's more than just a new wing and two engines.

Maybe I'm missing something, I just don't know what.
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Yeah, that's understandable. But like I said, we had an airplane with similar circumstances that did sell(replaced wing, pylon, engine, reskinned fuselage section, replaced stringers, floor beams, etc..) - and if someone was looking to buy a 767 on the cheap, they might've been interested if the airplane was deemed repairable.

Also, if you do a quick googling on Atlas Aviation and Ronni Chowdry, you'll see that they have a few other aircraft, including a couple of other 767s for sale, so they appear to be legit. Its also not clear what the status of the airplane is. Some aircraft registry database sites say it's "Stored" and some say "Written Off". My guess is the latter, which is why is the aircraft is no longer for sale.
 
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apathoid said:
Yeah, that's understandable. But like I said, we had an airplane with similar circumstances that did sell(replaced wing, pylon, engine, reskinned fuselage section, replaced stringers, floor beams, etc..) - and if someone was looking to buy a 767 on the cheap, they might've been interested if the airplane was deemed repairable.

Also, if you do a quick googling on Atlas Aviation and Ronni Chowdry, you'll see that they have a few other aircraft, including a couple of other 767s for sale, so they appear to be legit. Its also not clear what the status of the airplane is. Some aircraft registry database sites say it's "Stored" and some say "Written Off". My guess is the latter, which is why is the aircraft is no longer for sale.
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With an MD-11 I could understand going the extra mile to repair it since there are so few out there. By the way, what happened with that MD-11?

With the 767 there have been almost a thousand aircraft delivered so far in it's production life. So it's not like there's a shortage. Especially now that a lot of airlines have either replaced their 767's with A330's or are gearing up for the 787 and A350. As for the repair work there's the issue of the damaged keel beam. Usually when that's mentioned people get real hinky about it.
 
A-Train said:
Speaking of that, let's change the subject to something much more interesting. How does one determine the ownership history of a given aircraft? I'd like to know how I can find out the histories of the four airplanes crashed on 9/11, including who owned them and what airlines flew them. Is that possible?

What makes it so interesting is that I have learned that El Al, Israel's national airline, sold several 767s and 757s in the months before the 9/11 attacks. Wouldn't it be quite a coincidence if these planes, sold by a nation that benefitted immensely from the attacks, ended up being used by the terrorists on 9/11?
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Here you go Sherlock.

http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/El Al-active-b767.htm
http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/El Al-history-b757.htm

El Al never sold any of their 767s, and didn't sell any 757's to either UA or AA.

:solved2
 
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AMTMAN said:
With an MD-11 I could understand going the extra mile to repair it since there are so few out there. By the way, what happened with that MD-11?
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#3 had a tail pipe fire during an engine run after a C-check. Rumor has it that the fire warning and fire bottle breakers were still out. They didn't get fuel cut off until the wing was on fire.

The guys doing the run had a bad day, to say the least.

Couldn't find any pics, but here is the relevant thread from pprune:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=112090


With the 767 there have been almost a thousand aircraft delivered so far in it's production life. So it's not like there's a shortage. Especially now that a lot of airlines have either replaced their 767's with A330's or are gearing up for the 787 and A350. As for the repair work there's the issue of the damaged keel beam. Usually when that's mentioned people get real hinky about it.
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Yeah, I agree. I just don't think this is a case of someone trying to yank the twoofers chains. I'm more worried about that turbine disk....:p
 
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apathoid said:
#3 had a tail pipe fire during an engine run after a C-check. Rumor has it that the fire warning and fire bottle breakers were still out. They didn't get fuel cut off until the wing was on fire.

The guys doing the run had a bad day, to say the least.

Couldn't find any pics, but here is the relevant thread from pprune:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=112090





Yeah, I agree. I just don't think this is a case of someone trying to yank the twoofers chains. I'm more worried about that turbine disk....:p
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Especially when parts of it end up going through the keel beam. ;)

To be honest I'm not sure what to think about this whole thing.
 
A-Train said:
Speaking of that, let's change the subject to something much more interesting. How does one determine the ownership history of a given aircraft? I'd like to know how I can find out the histories of the four airplanes crashed on 9/11, including who owned them and what airlines flew them. Is that possible?

What makes it so interesting is that I have learned that El Al, Israel's national airline, sold several 767s and 757s in the months before the 9/11 attacks. Wouldn't it be quite a coincidence if these planes, sold by a nation that benefitted immensely from the attacks, ended up being used by the terrorists on 9/11?

http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-11489747_ITM
Click to expand...


:dl: You know you can dig yourself into a hole so deep that the dirt you are trying to throw out of the pit lands back on top of your head.
 
A-Train said:
What makes it so interesting is that I have learned that El Al, Israel's national airline, sold several 767s and 757s in the months before the 9/11 attacks. Wouldn't it be quite a coincidence if these planes, sold by a nation that benefitted immensely from the attacks, ended up being used by the terrorists on 9/11?
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This one post, full of ignorance at innumerable levels.
 
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A-Train said:
What makes it so interesting is that I have learned that El Al, Israel's national airline, sold several 767s and 757s in the months before the 9/11 attacks. Wouldn't it be quite a coincidence if these planes, sold by a nation that benefitted immensely from the attacks, ended up being used by the terrorists on 9/11?
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Err... what's your point? Or are you just throwing out random irrelevancies again?
 
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A-Train said:
What makes it so interesting is that I have learned that El Al, Israel's national airline, sold several 767s and 757s in the months before the 9/11 attacks. Wouldn't it be quite a coincidence if these planes, sold by a nation that benefitted immensely from the attacks, ended up being used by the terrorists on 9/11?
Click to expand...


This one seems to have slipped past most people. I must confess, A-Train, I'm curious. Tell me more.

-Gumboot
 
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